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MasterSlowPoke posted:So how does cover work in this edition? I see in the core rules that if you're in terrain you get +1 save, and some of the terrain types are in the Battlefield Terrain section, but I don't see anything about intervening models, or being obscured in general. Basically that's it. There's no more cover from intervening models; if a bunch of guardsmen are hiding behind a baneblade normal LoS applies. A lot of the units that used to gain cover saves from being hard to hit do now have special rules instead. So Venomthrope spore clouds or units that used to Jink now get -1 on To Hit against them.
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Jun 1, 2017 15:58
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WhiteOutMouse posted:My turn for interesting things? This was the same in 6th edition, don't know about 7th as I missed it entirely. . . . Starting to think that getting the digital version of the Indices/just waiting for them to make their army-building app is going to be the (slightly more) sane option here.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:16
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So here's something a little different. I wanted to see what the absolute minimum I could pay for HQs was and get a Battalion, and the answer is 55 points for a naked Big Mek. With that in mind I figured it might be interesting to see what that would give you. So in this approach I assume that the entire point of the Big Mek is to stay inside the Battlewagon and repair it for D3 wounds every turn. Of course doing so means that I can't fit 20 boyz into the battlewagon, so is that worth it? I think the answer is yes if you also consider using Nobs with WAAAGH! Banners. The WAAAGH banner gives you +1 to hit for all nearby Ork units in the Fight phase, which is essentially a 15% improvement in your number of wounds. 20 boyz doing 80 attacks averages around 53 wounds. 19 boyz doing 60 attacks with a WAAAGH! banner averages around 50, plus the Nob's bonus will apply for more than one round. As for the Big Mek, a Battlewagon with a Deff Rolla, 'Ard Case (which I'm assuming is free until GW clarifies), and 16 wounds translates to around 11 points per wound. So if a Big Mek saves 5 wounds then it's made it's points back, especially since a Battlewagon's effectiveness decreases significantly when it gets below half wounds. I'm also wondering about the benefit of just stuffing munitions on the Wagons. 4 Big Shootas and a Lobba is only 42 points and that's 12+d6 shots that can be flung all over the place. Alternatively I could just fit the four big shootas and have a vehicle that can fire and still move. Given how expensive the base model is it seems reasonable to want to shove more firepower on such a survivable platform. pre:998 Points Battalion, 6 Command Points HQ1: Big Mek 55 Slugga 0 Choppa 0 Stikkbombs 0 HQ2: Big Mek 55 Slugga 0 Choppa 0 Stikkbombs 0 E1: Nob w/ WAAAGH! Banner 79 Nob 75 Kustom Shoota 4 WAAAGH! Banner 0 Stikkbombs 0 E2: Nob w/ WAAAGH! Banner 79 Nob 75 Kustom Shoota 4 WAAAGH! Banner 0 Stikkbombs 0 T1: 18 Slugga Boyz 108 18 Sluggas and Choppas 0 1 Nob 0 T2: 18 Slugga Boyz 108 18 Sluggas and Choppas 0 1 Nob 0 T3: 22 Shoota Boyz 154 22 Boyz 132 22 Shootas 0 3 Big Shootas 18 Nob 0 Kustom Shoota 4 HS1: Battlewagon 180 Battlewagon 161 Deff Rolla 19 'Ard Case 0 HS2: Battlewagon 180 Battlewagon 161 Deff Rolla 19 'Ard Case 0
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Jun 1, 2017 16:42
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Xarlaxas posted:Starting to think that getting the digital version of the Indices/just waiting for them to make their army-building app is going to be the (slightly more) sane option here. Yeah. I may just buy the digital versions instead of the actual physical books. I can already tell that this is a nightmare to read through.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:43
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If you buy the digital it's going to be like 15 pages to print out maybe if you just play one army too. Not exactly a tall order. EDIT: The core rulebook seems really solid though, it's got stuff on campaigns and multiplayer and special rules and missions and all kinds of stuff I want a nice readable copy of.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:45
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General Olloth posted:If you buy the digital it's going to be like 15 pages to print out maybe if you just play one army too. Not exactly a tall order. I'm a big fan of laminating and spiral binding my books. Makes it far more readable.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:50
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Physical book supremacy
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Jun 1, 2017 16:57
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Zaphod42 posted:The tyranid psyker power Onslaught says they can charge after they advance and shoot, but the Swarmlord power just says you can move again, it doesn't mention charging, so I assume if you advance you can't charge. (Unless you get both the psyker power and the swarmlord buff) Sorry to bring this back up, but Genestealers can Advance and still Charge thanks to the 'Swift and Deadly' rule. Advance is a kind of move, and is explicitly included in the Swarmlord power. So Movement phase you advance moving 8+d6", shooting phase Swarmlord gives them another move and they advance 8+d6", charge phase they charge 2d6". Potential total movement of 40" and they average 30".
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Jun 1, 2017 17:21
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My LGS ordered enough copies to get the early store copy. We spent a good chunk of last night going through the army updates.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:23
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TKIY posted:Sorry to bring this back up, but Genestealers can Advance and still Charge thanks to the 'Swift and Deadly' rule. Advance is a kind of move, and is explicitly included in the Swarmlord power. Something else you can do is: 1) Stick a Swarmlord in a pod 2) Land it >9" from the enemy 3) Swarmlord casts Catalyst on itself in the psychic phase 4) Swarmlord uses hive commander power on itself to move 9" in the shooting phase = Guaranteed first turn charge from deepstrike with one the strongest melee units in the game. xtothez fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 17:33
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I'm putting some of these Primaris Marines together, and I hate to admit it, but these models are loving rad.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:37
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xtothez posted:Something else you can do is: Yup, but about 500pts to pull it off. Tyrannocytes got *way* more expensive.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:41
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TKIY posted:Sorry to bring this back up, but Genestealers can Advance and still Charge thanks to the 'Swift and Deadly' rule. Advance is a kind of move, and is explicitly included in the Swarmlord power. gently caress this edition is gonna be the best and most balanced ever!
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Jun 1, 2017 17:44
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TKIY posted:Yup, but about 500pts to pull it off. Tyrannocytes got *way* more expensive. This is true, but barbed strangler tyrannocytes put out a ton of shots and don't have the old shenanigans of shooting anymore. Seems worth it.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:45
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BIG MEATY SHITS posted:gently caress this edition is gonna be the best and most balanced ever! In the face of how good shooting is now, Assault needs to be brutal :/
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Jun 1, 2017 17:53
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BIG MEATY SHITS posted:gently caress this edition is gonna be the best and most balanced ever! I'll never get the gushing about turn one charges. Tying an opponent in decisive combat before they've even had a turn is about as bad as game design can get.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:53
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Hra Mormo posted:I'll never get the gushing about turn one charges. Tying an opponent in decisive combat before they've even had a turn is about as bad as game design can get. Eh. You can fall back out of combat now. Making combat doesn't protect you nearly as much as it used to. This is no worse than a shooting attack that can also remove a squad turn 1, and people rarely complained about that.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:56
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I'll never get the gushing about turn one shooting. Blowing an opponent off the board before they've even had a turn is about as bad as game design can get.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:56
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Master Twig posted:Eh. You can fall back out of combat now. Making combat doesn't protect you nearly as much as it used to. This is no worse than a shooting attack that can also remove a squad turn 1, and nobody has ever complained about that. Bingo. That Swarmlord gets in and kills one unit then gets gunned down.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:57
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Someone want to critique my first 500pt ork army for 8e launch? Obviously we don't know the nitty gritty yet but let me know if I am missing anything obvious. KRUMPERS SANS FRONTIERS HQ - Painboy - 60pts Elite - 10 nobz w/ trukk - 242pts Troop - 30 boyz w/ shootas + stikk bombs - 180pts Total - 482 points. Gives me 18 points to spare, I'm thinking 3 big shootas on the boyz? Comes together nicely using the starter box, my old 5e intro box and a trukk + boyz box. Doesn't give many toys, but I could drop the boyz down to 25 or 20 to get some power klaws or something on the nobz?
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Jun 1, 2017 17:58
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Full Circle posted:I'll never get the gushing about turn one shooting. Blowing an opponent off the board before they've even had a turn is about as bad as game design can get. This is also true but I didn't want to be mean.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:58
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Full Circle posted:I'll never get the gushing about turn one shooting. Blowing an opponent off the board before they've even had a turn is about as bad as game design can get. Hra Mormo posted:I'll never get the gushing about turn one charges. Tying an opponent in decisive combat before they've even had a turn is about as bad as game design can get. This is why 30k is the best, games are never decided on the first turn.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:59
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I wouldn't mind having a larger no man's land and a provision that turn 1 is exclusively for positioning, if only so everyone at least gets a chance to set up and prepare for their opponent's forces.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:00
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panascope posted:This is why 30k is the best, games are never decided on the first turn. *coughRavenGuardDecapitationStrikeCough*
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Jun 1, 2017 18:14
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With alternating deployments in 40k now, I'm more okay with action right out the gate. It's seems much harder to get totally blown out due to counter-deployments, but I'll have to play a few games and see.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:18
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TwingeCrag posted:With alternating deployments in 40k now, I'm more okay with action right out the gate. It's seems much harder to get totally blown out due to counter-deployments, but I'll have to play a few games and see. That's true too. You see a shitton of Genestealers gnawing at the front gates, you plop a Chimera and some Conscripts in front of any important units.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:21
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Hencoe posted:*coughRavenGuardDecapitationStrikeCough* Eh drop pod lists aren't unbeatable. Sacrificial Offering would probably gently caress you up.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:23
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Given the requirements for deep striking -- 9"+ away from an enemy -- and restrictions on charging through an enemy unit, it seems pretty easy to protect your important units during deployment
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Jun 1, 2017 18:37
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I expanded into Tyranids and just wanted to dip my toe in to sort of soften the blows I was dealing on the reg with GSC--but now, Nids seem to be able to slay like bosses, and GSC has 2 results on Cult Ambush to reliably assault from reserves, even if they lost Return to the Shadows. Is this what it's like to have your faction written by someone who actively likes it? I didn't mean to continue roflstomping people  I mean, this is all theoryhammer until I get to play a game, but poo poo, from the look of it 8th makes all my favorite factions really good and nerfed Taudar GC spam into the ground; even my knife-eared wraithspam buddy will have a good time. PRAISE BE.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:50
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:I expanded into Tyranids and just wanted to dip my toe in to sort of soften the blows I was dealing on the reg with GSC--but now, Nids seem to be able to slay like bosses, and GSC has 2 results on Cult Ambush to reliably assault from reserves, even if they lost Return to the Shadows. Is this what it's like to have your faction written by someone who actively likes it? I didn't mean to continue roflstomping people I think it's yet to be seen which factions really are 'good'. Nids look brutal in assault but lack any sort of sniper weapons to deal with buffing characters. Tau seem to be toned down but they bring withering firepower from their core infantry and still have great synergies between units. Eldar certainly took a kick with the repricing of the Wraithknight but still have tons of firepower and mobility. No doubt power builds and 'army tiers' will appear but if we do get the promised frequent point updates they shouldn't be overwhelming for too long.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:56
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Looks like the fallout of everything being leaked online is the stores were allowed to start showing stuff off in person early. I got a chance to look through the Dark Imperium box set last night, as well as see some stuff from the main rulebook. They're both well worth their price. Super high quality and incredible art. I was really impressed. Models wise, you can see from all the pictures, but the deathguard side of that box is so detailed that i'm probably going to just keep both sides. Also, the Primaris Captain has a beer gut. It looks pretty funny.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:59
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I think sniping is what Deathleaper is supposed to be for, but he has no way of getting rid of a model completely surrounded by a unit blob. The Mawloc, meanwhile, can inhale them and their entourage before escaping to come back for seconds.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:00
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The Bee posted:I think sniping is what Deathleaper is supposed to be for, but he has no way of getting rid of a model completely surrounded by a unit blob. The Mawloc, meanwhile, can inhale them and their entourage before escaping to come back for seconds. I didn't read Deathleapers rules before. He's pretty nasty...
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Jun 1, 2017 19:06
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TKIY posted:I didn't read Deathleapers rules before. He's pretty nasty... Does he basically get a +3 to save if fully entrenched in cover, when using the Cities of Death style cover wounds? Because going from a 5+ to a 2+ makes him a terrifying ambush unit.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:09
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The Bee posted:Does he basically get a +3 to save if fully entrenched in cover, when using the Cities of Death style cover wounds? Because going from a 5+ to a 2+ makes him a terrifying ambush unit. I would guess so, if your hunted target is in cover he's laughing. What were the rules about number of units you must deploy? Null-deploy Tyranids look ridiculous.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:11
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TKIY posted:I would guess so, if your hunted target is in cover he's laughing. in matched play missions, you have to deploy at least half your army. Also true in most narrative missions.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:12
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TKIY posted:I would guess so, if your hunted target is in cover he's laughing. The rules were that you had to have half of your units had to be set up on the battlefield (with no specification on size or model count) and they all have to arrive by round 3. You could totally have a few nidzillas holding down the fort before a Trygon shows up and barfs a stream of Gaunts or Genestealers all over your opponent.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:12
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I haven't gone through the codex yet, but does anyone know if the assassin's can roll with any army still, or is there something preventing that now?
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Jun 1, 2017 19:13
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:I haven't gone through the codex yet, but does anyone know if the assassin's can roll with any army still, or is there something preventing that now? Just need to match a faction keyword. 'Imperium' and off you go.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:13
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The Bee posted:The rules were that you had to have half of your units had to be set up on the battlefield (with no specification on size or model count) and they all have to arrive by round 3. You could totally have a few nidzillas holding down the fort before a Trygon shows up and barfs a stream of Gaunts or Genestealers all over your opponent. Rippers. Rippers everywhere and then pod in the monsters.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:14
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