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Personally I thought this episode was the poo poo
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Jun 1, 2017 05:25
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I knew I recognized that music from somewhere. But watching clips of Mr Wrench and Mr Numbers has just reminded me of how far this show has fallen from season 1 :/
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Jun 1, 2017 06:04
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Fog Tripper posted:I take back what I posted earlier. It was a groan worthy episode. I mean it even lessened Gloria for me when ninja lester manages to disarm her when she had him dead to rights. I'm getting real tired of professionals pointing guns at people within reaching distance. I guess it's a mistake people can make and it's a thing that sometimes happens but by now it's in every show and movie. When characters do it now it kinda makes them look dumb. Just don't walk up to them.
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Jun 1, 2017 06:09
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Also, how did the officers not notice the suspect running through the door? They came in like a second after he left.
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Jun 1, 2017 06:11
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The episode was fine. But yeah, thinking back at what we've seen so far this season, the overall arc seems all over the place, a few things seem to be repeated from previous seasons (mainly the cop who is not taken seriously but yet hangs on to their instinct), and up till the last moments of this episode the "rhythm" of the season seemed to die down. I am not even sure if I'm rooting for someone. It used to be Ray and Nikki, but then they became pretty horrible and dumb (and now one is dead) so that changed. Obviously the show wants me to root for Gloria, but she feels underdeveloped and more of a plot device (necessity?) in comparison to Molly from S1 or the Solversons (Lou, Betsy and also Hank) from S2. And I was way too excited to see mr. Wrench out of nowhere, probably the most excited I've been this season. Maybe next episode will be spent in catching up with what mr Wrench was up to until now. I don't think it will help the season arc overall, but it would make for a good episode I'd guess.
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Jun 1, 2017 06:22
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Really dug it. I don't think it's the same kind of omnipresent bad guys. Unlike the Negan shenanigans, they've shown how they're doing it- good ol' fashioned hacking into local city police stations and Googling. Not to mention that they aren't really tracking that many people. She was in the clink for awhile, so I can see there being a plan & back-up plan set in place. Sure it's a stretch, but they've shown us how they're doing it, and have kept to that pretty strictly. Officer running through the door not being seen kinda caught me off guard, but it fits with the general theme of how easy it is to miss something you aren't looking for even if you're looking right at it. Here's hoping Mr Wrench saves the day. That ending was something beautiful and terrifying. quote:I am not even sure if I'm rooting for someone. It used to be Ray and Nikki, but then they became pretty horrible and dumb (and now one is dead) so that changed. Obviously the show wants me to root for Gloria, but she feels underdeveloped and more of a plot device (necessity?) in comparison to Molly from S1 or the Solversons (Lou, Betsy and also Hank) from S2. Strongly disagree on both thoughts  . Nikki from the get go has been shown to have street smarts, and I don't think anything's really changed outside of her underestimating thugs. Also Gloria had an entire episode where they fleshed her out? Even in this episode the way she describes how put together her theory of the crimes (paper something or other) oozes character.Maybe your issue is just that there haven't been as many scenes of her in the past three episodes or so doing things that weren't working the case. EatinCake fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 06:27
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EatinCake posted:Maybe your issue is just that there haven't been as many scenes of her in the past three episodes or so doing things that weren't working the case. Could be. Also the fact the she seems depressed (or really serious and humorless) all the time is not working for me. They have her partner up with the other more upbeat officer (who I realize is sort of a new version of the Gus character from S1, smarter but more 2-dimensional so far), and yet that still hasn't quite worked to make Gloria open up --it rather brought the other character down.
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Jun 1, 2017 07:48
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While I'm down with this season. The jail cell scene was completely broken. You just spent 10 minutes making it clear what a bureaucratic mess it is to get in only to have Mr Murder and Coon come bolting in, and the rest of the shop shortly after. And no one checks any other CCTV tapes for the rest of the place? Come ooooooon, give me a cut away to Carrie hearing Nikki cry out OR SOMETHING.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:02
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So is Gloria the robot from Thaddeus' book? She can help!
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Jun 1, 2017 11:18
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Sorry, you cannot handwave away the issues with good old fashion googling. Have you actually done a google search of late? Takes forever to find helpful info due to 99.9999% of results being sales sites artificially bumped to the top of the list. The paperwork nightmare is an excellent point as well. Guy walks right past local cop guarding door with a foot of space to get between his desk and wall, not once but twice.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:46
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Fog Tripper posted:Sorry, you cannot handwave away the issues with good old fashion googling. Have you actually done a google search of late? Takes forever to find helpful info due to 99.9999% of results being sales sites artificially bumped to the top of the list. Yeah but this is 2010 Google
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Jun 1, 2017 14:01
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Henchman of Santa posted:Yeah but this is 2010 Google Touche. However it still doesn't explain away their impeccable timing and coordination.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:34
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Fog Tripper posted:Sorry, you cannot handwave away the issues with good old fashion googling. Have you actually done a google search of late? Takes forever to find helpful info due to 99.9999% of results being sales sites artificially bumped to the top of the list. Particularly for information about people, it's scary how easy it is to find things out. You can look at Ken Bone from the state's for one example of that. If you know someone's name and profession, chance is good you can find a great deal out about them- as they show Varga doing awhile back.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:58
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Fog Tripper posted:Touche. However it still doesn't explain away their impeccable timing and coordination. Aliens.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:08
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Harminoff posted:Aliens. The AV Club review brought up the point of Chief Moe only existing to be an rear end in a top hat, and that regardless of whether he serves that purpose, he's really loving grating to watch. I totally agree with that. He seems unrealistic in a universe where weird, quirky characters are the norm. I'm still enjoying the show, just wish the writers had chosen some different paths for certain characters.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:07
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WhiteHowler posted:I'm having more issues with suspension of disbelief this season than I did with anything is season 2. they could have easily made him more balanced in with a couple of five second clips too, its not really that hard. he's just so one-dimensional and one-dimensional characters with that much screen time need an interesting quirk at the very least.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:11
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where the heck is jim gaffigan
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Jun 1, 2017 20:23
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He was supposed to be the cop but scheduling conflicts stopped that. And yeah Moe to me seems like a sitcom character which is really weird and not enjoyable.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:25
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The omnipotent bad guys are a problem, but I think it reaches back to season 1 and the idea that you can do almost everything if you just ignore the rules. At the same time people who follow the rules look the other way if they're alone and things get too weird. But the fake cop escaping out the door was pretty bad. I'd say the video cameras going dark was bad too, but it is Vargas after all. Also, Vargas got Nikki arrested, but now he's trying to get her out. She saw something in the crime scene photo. Perhaps Vargas had access to the same pictures (scanned, emailed?) and now knows he missed something that she might point out? There's something under the aquarium stand, but I can't tell what.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:26
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Harminoff posted:He was supposed to be the cop but scheduling conflicts stopped that. this is extremely disappointing
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Jun 1, 2017 20:40
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Not the main cop, the husky one that was in this last episode.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:03
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Harminoff posted:He was supposed to be the cop but scheduling conflicts stopped that. oh that explains everything about that character, then. Harminoff posted:Not the main cop, the husky one that was in this last episode. i take it back!!
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Jun 1, 2017 21:12
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I don't mind the villains as much, but rather some of the cops. It's just lazy writing to have them be obstinate for the sake of being obstinate. Even if main cop lady's new boss (Nucky's brother to me) hates her, he would begrudgingly see by now that something is going on. I can buy fat cowardly deputy running away and perceiving the danger because it fits his character, but characters that are dumb for no reason than create conflict aggravate the poo poo out of me.
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Jun 1, 2017 22:45
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The new chief appears to be getting on board though. Which means he'll soon die. So is Gloria vice-chief?
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Jun 1, 2017 22:53
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I am another guy who doesn't like the superpowered villains. Once in a while I'm fine with them not showing how villains do stuff behind the scenes for the sake of brevity. But this episode we saw some of that "behind the scenes" and it was completely unimpressive. A guy with a knockout stick thingy scares a cop with a gun by talking weird? The main hero has her gun on a guy who she knows is a murderer holding a murder weapon, and she lets him duck and execute a full ninja spin kick, which accurately knocks her gun away without even looking, and then he somehow passes two cops who are running towards a friggin gunshot in a precinct that he is clearly moving away from and don't even think about stopping him to ask him stuff? That's too much at once. One thing I liked about the first season of Homeland was the "super powerful conspiracy agents" had some behind the scenes stuff to show just how they did some of their ridiculous bullshit. A sniper had to get through a police cordon to get a shot at his target, so he followed someone who lived in the area and hid in the trunk of their car. When that person got to the cordon she showed her ID which showed she lived within that area so the cops saw no reason to search her further. Then we saw some more stuff of him getting access to an apartment and tying up the resident so he could make his shot. If the guy had just not been shown at all then fired his shot at the critical moment I would have thought "oh really, how convenient that they can just have a sniper within the security cordon with short notice like that" but when they showed his process (which maybe I did not describe fully or accurately) I was like "poo poo that would actually work." And from then on when that sniper guy shows up somewhere he's not supposed to be you can believe it. In the case of this episode I would have rather they just not shown how they got the Stussey file if it was going to be dumb like that. And I would have rather seen DJ Qualls' escape, something like Lester's hospital escape in season 1 though more quick and dirty. He shouts some jargon at the two chief guys, say he'll go do ___ believable thing, gets the gently caress out of there as fast as possible. I have no problem buying that Vargas' guys had a backup plan though. The fake cop with the lethal injection took planning, this is just dudes showing up with guns and a saw. And it seems pretty drat like that there's going to be a... ... Wrench in their works. Actually it's been so long since season 1 I didn't recognize him at all and thought he was the Russian guy, and was confused as hell at the end. Also I was really hoping the other chief guy would hear Gloria's speech about how the Stussey murders are connected and say to the dick chief "what about that sounds so far fetched to you?"
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Jun 2, 2017 03:14
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I think Wrench is the only character whose been in both seasons who would still be alive for the third. Although I guess the Lou Solverson might still be alive. What if the fake cop isn't actually with Vargas?
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Jun 2, 2017 03:20
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WhiteHowler posted:I'm having more issues with suspension of disbelief this season than I did with anything is season 2. Watching the Chief be an obstructive rear end in a top hat for no reason just makes for really frustrating tv. To have Gloria basically solve the case and then put her in a holding pattern for 4 episodes, blocked by a character who makes no sense is just bad writing. It's even more excusable that they're returning to that well after doing the same poo poo in season 1.
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Jun 2, 2017 05:19
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At this point I hope the new chief is a Varga goon, because it's just getting completely frustrating how he ignores everything and tries to move on like everything is a coincidence. I'm just really not feeling this season. The whole prison shoot out thing just made it so much worse. Like if the chief is with Varga then I can understand things like, "Oh the camera it's just a glitch." and maybe he could've told them she wasn't killed and where the prison bus will be, but ugghhh
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Jun 2, 2017 05:41
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General Dog posted:To have Gloria basically solve the case and then put her in a holding pattern for 4 episodes, blocked by a character who makes no sense is just bad writing. It's even more excusable that they're returning to that well after doing the same poo poo in season 1. I don't want to sound too much like an apologist, but I'd still like to wave the flag that they are justifying it. For Season 1 you had Bob Odenkirk who was a chief of police that couldn't fathom terrible things happening in his hometown, so he was incapable of understanding the crime until it was obvious. They set it up fine enough that he knows Lester well and it just doesn't jive with him that Lester would commit the crimes he's accused of. That's fine. Season 2 had the cocky detective cop, who filled the same role but was eventually fleshed out a bit when he shared Vietnam stories & showed he was halfway competent in action. WIth Moe we have a dude who came straight from the military, is trying to assert that he's the boss, and is apparently a strict adherent of Occam's razor. I suppose what it's missing is the personal element. We haven't seen him in many scenes where he isn't just saying "no", and that's probably what's hurting it. But, the setup is at least there. EatinCake fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 05:48
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Krispy Kareem posted:But the fake cop escaping out the door was pretty bad. I'd say the video cameras going dark was bad too, but it is Vargas after all. Also, Vargas got Nikki arrested, but now he's trying to get her out. She saw something in the crime scene photo. Perhaps Vargas had access to the same pictures (scanned, emailed?) and now knows he missed something that she might point out? There's something under the aquarium stand, but I can't tell what. Yeah new chief is really wearing out his welcome at this point. When he claims the security footage going out just before an attempted prison shanking is a random glitch I would have had to go all Shawshank Redemption on his rear end. "Obtuse, is it deliberate?" As for Nikki looking at the Ray photo, did we see if Ethan took the stamp after the frame broke? If she sees that stamp laying on the carpet then she knows Ethan was involved.
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Jun 2, 2017 06:50
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As with most of the characters this season, I thought Moe was interesting when first introduced. And his argument about them not using computers at the station made sense to me. Yes, it turned out that this season's premise has an (unrealistic) omnipotent hacker, but that's just another absurd trope that I'm not particularly fond of when I see it. However, it turns out Moe has been there only to say no and be a blocker. It was somewhat justified up till this episode, since Gloria's theory could seem a bit stretched lacking proper evidence and investigation (which he was blocking though). But he seemed to go bonkers in this episode, and after the jail encounter he was pretty much accusing Gloria of straight up lying about what had happened, ignoring the fact that Nikki was somehow handcuffed on the cell and making up a theory that the syringe was hers (as well as attributing the camera glitch to coincidence). That's a new level of bullshit for that character that I don't think he can recover from. It doesn't help that Moe (as well as most of the characters this season) are not shown to interact (in a significant way anyway) with any other people than the absolutely necessary for the plot. He pretty much interacts only with Gloria for this whole series up to now .
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Jun 2, 2017 07:05
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I'm with the other poster who said there's no one to root for. Specifically, no 'baddie' to root for. As terrible as he was, given the whole murdering the wife shtick, I kinda wanted Lester to win. poo poo character, as in what made up the moral fibre of his being, but a great character with charisma and low key charm. Just a simple guy who did some heinous poo poo... but on some level you just wanna see run free. Season two had Dunst and Meth Damon, she's a killer and he's a rather brutal amateur undertaker, but they have those same qualities Lester did. Mother Gerhardt, Hanzee... two mean muthafucks but didn't you want to see them ruin Kansas City's poo poo just a little and keep the wheels of their quaint crime empire spinning? I know Solverson and Burgle are supposed to be the team we root for, but the law is always gonna be that all consuming leviathan that eventually eats all these fantastically wonderful and stupid criminals. It's like cheering for the sun because it came up this morning. Ray was gross. Nikki is/was just a little too petty and vicious. Sy is likable, but he's a victim in all this. Same with Emmit... who's gradually heading to a very dark place. Maybe it's a strange thing to want from this series, or in general, but I like it when there's a villain I can see myself in. Never gonna be an arch criminal, but if the wife comes home with a dude stuck in her windshield... I'd probably wonder if there was gas for the hedge trimmer.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:11
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Krispy Kareem posted:I think Wrench is the only character whose been in both seasons who would still be alive for the third. Although I guess the Lou Solverson might still be alive. Molly too.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:19
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I liked this episode and I like this season. Take that, internet. 
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Jun 2, 2017 08:46
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Moe just can't admit he might be wrong, especially to his soon-to-be subordinate. He's felt from the start he has to clean up Eden Valley's mess and get them in line (they don't even use computers!) and he'll be damned if he's going to back down, no matter how he has to justify it to himself. All that said, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if he was on Varga's payroll. That's really the only thing that bugs me slightly - all the time it's been strictly Varga, Yuri and Meemo to the point where you could seriously question if their organization even has anyone else, now they have to get an inside man suddenly. I absolutely didn't recognize Wrench. But the way the shot was framed made it very obvious that someone significant was sitting next to Nikki, so when his face was revealed I thought "are we supposed to know this guy from somewhere...?"
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Jun 2, 2017 09:23
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sticklefifer posted:I liked this episode and I like this season. Take that, internet.  This season has been slow and weird compared to the first two and we'll see how it ends up falling in the rankings but I can't say I haven't been surprised and delighted so far. So happy to see Mr. Wrench. Maybe the local crime families are fighting back against Varga and that's going to become apparent when next episode opens with Wrench killing Varga's goon and saving Gloria  "Ya didn't tell me yer a hitman!" *passes her a note* "WAS"
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Jun 2, 2017 11:59
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I would like to see Ray Wise's character return in the next episodes. Hopefully sooner than later. And I'd like the Goldfarb widow story to go somewhere and have the actress more involved in the plot. Mary McDonnell is way underused so far.
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Jun 2, 2017 12:08
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Mr. Wrench is gonna mime the entirety of Bill's "I had a partner" speech from The Last of Us and it's gonna be great. edit: Ray Wise showing up mysteriously at the same time as the Twin Peaks reboot is fantastic timing.
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Jun 2, 2017 13:04
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I know it's been mentioned but while I don't like the omnipotent evil-doers trope I think the "supervisor doesn't buy into legit police work" trope even more. I was hoping for something like another poster said where the St. Cloud chief would acknowledge the new chief was being a dick and ignoring obvious connections.
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Jun 2, 2017 13:41
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I'm finding myself rolling my eyes at the constant metaphors and story asides the antagonists seem so fond of (whether it's Varga, Moe, or the Ukrainian). Every conflict has seemingly required them to deliver one and it's gotten a bit tiresome, and I'm really hoping at least one at the end ends with Nikki/Gloria basically going "oh my god WHO CARES" and cutting them off to ice them/arrest them/whatever.
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Jun 2, 2017 14:36
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