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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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literally at "how can racism exist, if black man president" come on thread, you are better than that
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Jun 2, 2017 10:18
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Jaxyon posted:literally at "how can racism exist, if black man president" That's not at all what I said.
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Jun 2, 2017 10:38
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Accretionist posted:The 'debate genderswap' is hilarious because boyHillary nails her speech and mannerisms and comes off even worse than she does. This actually helped open my eyes about how voters saw Trump. When you take away both of their histories, using only what they said in the debate, the actress comes across very strong.
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Jun 2, 2017 11:20
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The woman in the staged debate makes Trump's performance seem as a product of a strength of convictions, rather than cynicism and her forceful gesticulation and language seem empowered rather than arrogant. Naturally when we look at Real World Trump, the same words and behaviors gain their negative connotations because of what we know of Trump the person with a history, and it is pretty easy to see how people with less of a pre-formed opinion would not have the same reaction. The man still comes off as an ineffectual pedant whose only defense is "I'm right because I say so". In fact he comes off worse because he doesn't induce the nagging feeling in my head of "So many people say she's smart and talented, maybe I'm wrong about her, maybe they see something I'm missing, or maybe I really am biased." He's just some dude in a suit being slapped around, and it's painful to watch. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 11:45
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Jaxyon posted:literally at "how can racism exist, if black man president" If ( black_president == true) { b_racism = false; } else if (trump_president == true) { b_racism = true; }
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Jun 2, 2017 16:01
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Jaxyon posted:literally at "how can racism exist, if black man president" The same irredeemable racists who voted for Trump also voted for a man called BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA but what can you do, it's racism Jake.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:08
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Al Franken's book "Giant of the Senate" just came out recently. Anyone given it a read yet?
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Jun 2, 2017 16:48
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Nanomashoes posted:Trump wound up getting about the same amount of votes as Romney and McCain, no, I don't think so. This oft- repeated talking point is really dumb and wrong. Morons here really need to get it through their thick loving skull that we don't elect presidents through popular vote. Trump crushed mccain and Romney in places like Florida, you know- the states that actually matter!! Who gives a gently caress that Hillary ran up the scoreboard in ny and ca, it literally does not matter in any way whatsoever.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:49
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Jaxyon posted:literally at "how can racism exist, if black man president" Constantly coming back to racism as the reason the white woman lost is also a really loving stupid thing idiots here like to do. Anything to avoid the truth that is right in front of you. Hilary loving sucked and losing is totally and completely her fault.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:52
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Mister Facetious posted:Al Franken's book "Giant of the Senate" just came out recently. Anyone given it a read yet? I started the other day. I have the audio version, which he reads, which probably adds a level since there's no bad delivery. It's pretty good so far. A lot of decent jokes, it's more of a biography with the aim of explaining how/why he got political
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Jun 2, 2017 16:54
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Constantly coming back to racism as the reason the white woman lost is also a really loving stupid thing idiots here like to do. Anything to avoid the truth that is right in front of you. Hilary loving sucked and losing is totally and completely her fault. You know people don't say that people they were racist against Hillary they say it because Trump's entire platform was "brown people the devil and the cause of all your trouble I will destroy the brown people and everything will be great again"
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Jun 2, 2017 16:56
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:I started the other day. I have the audio version, which he reads, which probably adds a level since there's no bad delivery. Audible owns. 
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Jun 2, 2017 16:59
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Constantly coming back to racism as the reason the white woman lost is also a really loving stupid thing idiots here like to do. Anything to avoid the truth that is right in front of you. Hilary loving sucked and losing is totally and completely her fault. ¿Por que no los dos?
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Jun 2, 2017 17:00
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socialsecurity posted:You know people don't say that people they were racist against Hillary they say it because Trump's entire platform was "brown people the devil and the cause of all your trouble I will destroy the brown people and everything will be great again" How does anyone not know this.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:40
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Resistance update: https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/870434335450578945
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Jun 2, 2017 17:55
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Jaxyon posted:the whole "it's donald trump it shouldn't have been close" ignores a whole lot of stuff he ran on Regarding the whole "Trump voters were most influenced by racism" point (and all other points that attempt to define "Trump voters"), there are (at least) three important subsets that must be considered to do an analysis that has any chance of actually being useful (and most articles in the media I've seen don't correctly account for this stuff): - Whether voters consistently vote Republican in presidential elections, because voters who have a reasonable chance of switching sides are electorally more important than ones who always vote Republican. - Whether voters live in areas relevant to presidential elections (i.e. swing states). It doesn't matter if most Trump voters prioritize racism if the "most" in question are located in non-swing states. - Whether voters voted for Trump in the primary (since these are Republican voters who specifically preferred Trump over other Republicans). I remember seeing this one article talking about how Trump voters were more wealthy than average, while ignoring the facts that 1. Republican primary voters are on average more wealthy than the rest of the population and 2. Trump primary voters were less well off than other Republican primary voters (and I believe cared more about economic issues as well, though I could be wrong about that). The important thing to keep in mind is that it's entirely possible for (for example) just 10% of Trump voters to care most about issues other than racism, and for that 10% to still be very important electorally. Articles/studies pointing out that most Trump voters care about racism aren't useful unless they make some attempt to control for all these factors. "Most Trump voters are motivated by racism" is not mutually exclusive with "people motivated to vote Trump for economic reasons were electorally important."
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Jun 2, 2017 17:56
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kenner116 posted:How does anyone not know this. Literally everybody here knows this and has acknowledged it. What we contest is the suggestion that that is the only significant factor.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:57
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:This oft- repeated talking point is really dumb and wrong. Morons here really need to get it through their thick loving skull that we don't elect presidents through popular vote. Trump crushed mccain and Romney in places like Florida, you know- the states that actually matter!!
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Jun 2, 2017 18:12
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twodot posted:but I feel like Johnson and Stein voters are weird enough it's hard to read their intentions. Ooh ooh, I know this! Ahem... "The moon will crash into Lake Michigan before Trump gets a SCOTUS nominee through!  "
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Jun 2, 2017 18:24
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Jaxyon posted:literally at "how can racism exist, if black man president" 11/7/16 - "Hillary's assured blowout defeat of Trump will prove that the coalition of the ascendant dominates American politics, and that his campaign was a dumpster fire. She might win Texas!" 11/9/16 - "Hillary's inevitable preordained loss to Trump has proven that America is irredeemably racist, and that he's a political genius with iron self-discipline who ran a perfect campaign. It wasn't her fault!"
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Jun 2, 2017 18:30
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To be fair other than that dumb "Cambridge Analytica were geniuses!" talking point that was floating around for about a week not too many people have pushed that Trump's campaign was highly competent.Ego-bot posted:Resistance update: Hahaha
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Jun 2, 2017 18:34
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Ooooh, be prepared for a finger wagging, Donald.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:36
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twodot posted:Total vote counts in Florida went up election over election (and significantly between 2012 and 2016), and McCain got 48.22%, Romney got 49.13% and Trump got 49.02% of the vote. I can't find a definition of crushed that fits here unless you're just reading raw numbers regardless of context. Obviously Johnson, and to a lesser extent Stein, was a factor in Florida, but I feel like Johnson and Stein voters are weird enough it's hard to read their intentions. It's not hard at all. Johnson voters are mostly people who would vote for a Republican if they had to choose between the two, and Stein voters are almost entirely people who would for for a Democrat given the same choice. (And McMullin voters were pretty much all dyed-in-the-wool Republicans.) The fact that almost seven million people voted for those three unserious third-party candidates is at least as much a testament to the two main party candidates' inability to connect with their own voters as it is to those third-party voters' weirdness.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:39
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Yes, I know Trump got different voters than Romney. Do you think the people of Ohio and Pennsylvania are more racist than average and they turned out big for racism in those states or do you think that his victory had to do much more with Hillary running a lovely campaign?
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Jun 2, 2017 18:50
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Majorian posted:Literally everybody here knows this and has acknowledged it. What we contest is the suggestion that that is the only significant factor. "Oh, so it's not okay to question man causing climate change, but it's okay to question how Trump won!?!"  etc. etc.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:00
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Ego-bot posted:Resistance update: I mean, hey, when the President personally donated to your election efforts, you don't wanna #resist toooooo muuuch.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:07
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gtrmp posted:It's not hard at all. Johnson voters are mostly people who would vote for a Republican if they had to choose between the two, and Stein voters are almost entirely people who would for for a Democrat given the same choice. quote:The fact that almost seven million people voted for those three unserious third-party candidates is at least as much a testament to the two main party candidates' inability to connect with their own voters as it is to those third-party voters' weirdness.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:07
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Constantly coming back to racism as the reason the white woman lost is also a really loving stupid thing idiots here like to do. Anything to avoid the truth that is right in front of you. Hilary loving sucked and losing is totally and completely her fault. Why can't racism and "Hillary ran a bad campaign" both exist as reasons she lost? I don't understand why some people in this thread are so unwilling to discuss the role of racism in this election. Why does any discussion of race's impact on this election get extrapolated to "Hillary did nothing wrong"?
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Jun 2, 2017 19:07
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fsif posted:Why can't racism and "Hillary ran a bad campaign" both exist as reasons she lost? edit: And for people who are just recently coming to this understanding, what are we supposed to do about it? Attract more racist voters? End racism?
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Jun 2, 2017 19:11
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twodot posted:Personally, it seems really suspicious to me that people are recently focusing a lot on how racism interacts with elections, when attracting racist voters has been an explicit goal of Republicans for decades. There was a major divide over racism in the 60s, the explicitly racist people left the Democrats and joined the Republicans, and now Republican politicians get the racist vote. This should be well understood. People focus on racism every election, but this one was notable because you had David Duke arise from his rathole to stan for Trump. You had a very visible rise in online white supremacy groups. You had a candidate that started his presidential bid by calling Mexicans rapists. You had a candidate call for the banning of Muslims. He questioned a Mexican judge's ability to do his job impartially, he refused to disavow the KKK, and all his language on jobs more explicitly spoke of foreigners stealing our jobs than recent Republicans past. Race was all over this election. People might want to talk about it for a reason other than deflecting blame from their yaaas queen.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:18
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twodot posted:The existence of people with fringe views isn't a failure of major political parties. Sure it is. Major political parties have annihilated public education funding and have squandered any sort of "maybe they are working for us" sort of good will. The past 50 years of failure by the neoliberal economic establishment have come home to roost, it's entirely their fault that the most popular politician in America isn't a Democrat or Republican and honestly I don't really see how you can blame the third party voter who just doesn't want to vote for someone who's going to keep bombing children overseas (even if most third party candidates would do this, it's a guarantee that either of the major parties will) Faith in instututions is at a fifty year low because those institutions have largely failed over the past 50 years.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:19
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Barbe Rouge posted:The same irredeemable racists who voted for Trump also voted for a man called BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA but what can you do, it's racism Jake. Yes, some people who voted for Obama were able to ignore racist rhetoric to vote for Trump because they are white. Therefore, racism isn't a factor. The hottest of takes
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Jun 2, 2017 19:28
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Jaxyon posted:Yes, some people who voted for Obama were able to ignore racist rhetoric to vote for Trump because they are white.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:30
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Jaxyon posted:Yes, some people who voted for Obama were able to ignore racist rhetoric to vote for Trump because they are white. Therefore, racism isn't a factor. So what is your solution? What's the point of saying "racism was a factor" over and over? How will it make us better the next time around?
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Jun 2, 2017 19:31
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NewForumSoftware posted:Alternatively, Hillary was a horrific candidate who energized nobody and Trump just won by default because he appeared to be living as opposed to an undead. lol no wait there's a dumber take Nice custom title
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Jun 2, 2017 19:32
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WampaLord posted:So what is your solution? What's the point of saying "racism" over and over? To ensure the next Democratic candidate won't threaten to raise his taxes of course.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:32
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WampaLord posted:So what is your solution? What's the point of saying "racism was a factor" over and over? How will it make us better the next time around? "If you can't solve racism why are you talking about HUH" And this is why we don't talk about cancer
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Jun 2, 2017 19:32
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Jaxyon posted:"If you can't solve racism why are you talking about HUH" Maybe make a thread about how racism still exists in 2017 (my god, shocking) instead of posting "But did you know some voters were racist?!" in the Democrats thread. Who do you think disagrees with you exactly?
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Jun 2, 2017 19:33
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Jaxyon posted:"If you can't solve racism why are you talking about HUH" I honestly don't understand the point of your posts. Have fun shouting at goons, I guess.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:34
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twodot posted:Personally, it seems really suspicious to me that people are recently focusing a lot on how racism interacts with elections, when attracting racist voters has been an explicit goal of Republicans for decades. There was a major divide over racism in the 60s, the explicitly racist people left the Democrats and joined the Republicans, and now Republican politicians get the racist vote. This should be well understood. At the same time it's obvious the significance of racism on its own isn't significant enough to block Dem victory alone. Just as social progressives aren't enough to block GOP on their own. For the second part - people are the product of their environment. Relying on people from areas with prevalent racist discourse to change themselves without an external actor effecting change is like expecting an inert liquid to escape its vessel. The solution is not to "end racism", which is a deliberately dumb way to talk about the issue, it is to replace the factors that attract people to racial bigotry with superior substitutes that fulfill the same social functions as the current parochialism, and / or to provide enough material incentives to outweigh the cost for an individual of breaking away from conformism. Demanding that people first start acting more enlightened just to make themselves deserving of some attention from their politicians is the liberal side of the bootstraps mentality. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 19:36
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