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I don't understand why Varga is trying so hard to kill Nikki? Wouldn't that make things worse? How could she hurt them with Ray dead (and the crime pinned on her, at least for now)?
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Jun 2, 2017 15:27
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PowerBuilder3 posted:I don't understand why Varga is trying so hard to kill Nikki? Wouldn't that make things worse? How could she hurt them with Ray dead (and the crime pinned on her, at least for now)? She's seen the big players. Even the little she does know is probably considered too much.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:43
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Nate RFB posted:I'm finding myself rolling my eyes at the constant metaphors and story asides the antagonists seem so fond of (whether it's Varga, Moe, or the Ukrainian). Every conflict has seemingly required them to deliver one and it's gotten a bit tiresome, and I'm really hoping at least one at the end ends with Nikki/Gloria basically going "oh my god WHO CARES" and cutting them off to ice them/arrest them/whatever. Yeah, it was satisfying to see Gloria pretty much "talk to the hand" to Varga at Stuckie's office. A flat out "shut the gently caress up" would be awesome. cosmically_cosmic posted:She's seen the big players. Even the little she does know is probably considered too much. Why not just kill her in the motel rather than involve the police who up til then knew nothing about where she was located? Perhaps it was to enforce the narrative that Ray beat her, but how/why/wtf on earth did they switch gears so quickly into needing to pull a fake officer with a hypo out of their rear end in order to kill her? Lacked more subtle options than while in a jail cell of a station that requires multiple layers of paperwork to speak with a jailed person? It's all just a bit too much at this point. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 17:24
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The implication I got after thinking about the episode later, which if it is the case is not conveyed in the episode very well, is that by having Gloria discovering Ray's body so quickly the police were able to figure out that Nikki was at the hotel somehow and picked her up before Varga could get to her. Because the alternative doesn't make that much sense if they are going to try so hard to kill her afterwards.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:47
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Nate RFB posted:The implication I got after thinking about the episode later, which if it is the case is not conveyed in the episode very well, is that by having Gloria discovering Ray's body so quickly the police were able to figure out that Nikki was at the hotel somehow and picked her up before Varga could get to her. Because the alternative doesn't make that much sense if they are going to try so hard to kill her afterwards. I assumed this too. Though granted I watched the first two seasons in a marathon, watching this one as it comes out has made it a little harder to keep track of the order of some events.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:50
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But Varga's goon was in the motel room with piano wire before the cops came. And then he left before the cops came. I guess his headphones had police dispatch (or a call from someone with police connections) and he decided he didn't want to be there when the cops came?
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Jun 2, 2017 17:55
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Trillhouse posted:But Varga's goon was in the motel room with piano wire before the cops came. And then he left before the cops came. I guess his headphones had police dispatch (or a call from someone with police connections) and he decided he didn't want to be there when the cops came? Didn't he get the call/text from Varga about Ray being dead, then left?
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Jun 2, 2017 18:04
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You're probably right. My memory is hazy for that episode.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:07
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Yeah I thought he left to clean up the Ray scene, though if he actually was able to do anything it was not obvious. Maybe he was going to but Gloria beat him to the punch (allowing Nikki to pick out that detail in the photo). But again, if this is meant to be the case it is not conveyed in the episode very well.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 18:07
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Meemo was at Ray's place when Varga talked to Emmet. Emmet even asks about him. And once they had to craft a narrative to cover up Emmet's involvement, it didn't make sense anymore for Nikki to be found dead in a motel room. Sudden death in a jail cell looks weird but after the narrative is established, that no longer matters.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:09
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It seems like the possibility of having the fake police officer get caught (or even seen) is a lot more dangerous to Varga than anything Nikki knows.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:24
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WhiteHowler posted:It seems like the possibility of having the fake police officer get caught (or even seen) is a lot more dangerous to Varga than anything Nikki knows. I think the show was just reestablishing that Varga has everything under control always at all times, except Gloria. Had she not been there his plan to kill Nikki would've gone off without a hitch.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:37
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The real mystery is, did Varga hack the cameras or did Gloria being in the vicinity gently caress them up?
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Jun 2, 2017 21:05
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Maybe Varga has been hacking all of the electronics so that they never respond to Gloria's presence. 
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Jun 2, 2017 21:10
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jfood posted:The real mystery is, did Varga hack the cameras or did Gloria being in the vicinity gently caress them up?
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Jun 2, 2017 21:12
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The new chief reminds me of coworkers I've had. They've run into the, "never go full retard," problem where it's just too real.
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Jun 2, 2017 21:27
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The plausibility of the new chief being such an obstructive idiot kind of takes a back seat to it just being bad tv to have a character who has no attributes or narrative purpose other than impeding Gloria for half the season. I remember when Bob Odenkirk played the same function in season 1, I kept expecting a reveal that he had ulterior motives to keep things quiet. Maybe that's how it will turn out this year, but I'm not even sure if that payoff would be worth it at this point.
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Jun 2, 2017 21:48
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Someone in the av club comments pointed out that Yuri Gurka is the name of the murderer the USSR interrogator accused the innocent guy of being in the first scene of the season, and also the name of Varga's henchman. But with all these themes of confused identities and duality and perceived versus actual reality, I don't know what to make of it more than saying "huh..."
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Jun 2, 2017 21:55
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Nick Rivers posted:Someone in the av club comments pointed out that Yuri Gurka is the name of the murderer the USSR interrogator accused the innocent guy of being in the first scene of the season We don't know that he was innocent. I thought the slow pan down to show that he had melting snow on his shoes was meant to establish that, in fact, he had killed that girl.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:02
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The fake cop might not be Vargas' guy. If he wanted Nikki dead there are far easier ways to do it (at the motel). I think we're about to get a 3rd plotline. Maybe Nikki is involved in some other poo poo. It seems too...odd, that Vargas would have a 3rd henchman no one has seen until now who is played by an actual name actor viewers recognize. Why not just use the Asian guy again unless the fake cop is meant to be expanded upon. Heck, Gloria didn't even see his face so it's not like Asian guy would have blown Vargas' cover.jfood posted:The real mystery is, did Varga hack the cameras or did Gloria being in the vicinity gently caress them up? This. 100% this. The faulty CCTV is trying to throw off viewers and make them think Vargas hacked the police station, but in reality, the fake cop has nothing to do with Vargas and they're setting up a surprise twist. Although this doesn't explain why Yuri attacked the prison bus. So I'm probably wrong. precision posted:We don't know that he was innocent. I thought the slow pan down to show that he had melting snow on his shoes was meant to establish that, in fact, he had killed that girl. I thought so too, but someone else mentioned those were his house slippers. Emmitt is shown at one point in his house slippers so house slippers appear to be a theme. He was dragged from his house so abruptly he didn't have time to put on proper shoes.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:38
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General Dog posted:The plausibility of the new chief being such an obstructive idiot kind of takes a back seat to it just being bad tv to have a character who has no attributes or narrative purpose other than impeding Gloria for half the season. i tend to agree, but on the other hand that is exactly how an insecure macho cop would treat a woman he felt threatened by, talking down to her, etc.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:45
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I actually kind of thought maybe they attacked the bus to get to Mr. Wrench or someone else and didn't even know Nikki would be on it. Mainly because I don't understand why Vargas still wants Nikki dead and I thought the shot of Meemo watching the cops nab Nikki implied Vargas is the one who tipped the cops off to her location in the first place. Why do that when they could have killed her themselves before the cops found her? Maybe there was something in the report Yuri stole about Ennis/Maurice that tipped them off to something? Probably not but they like to do the mix-up thing and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not sure what to think of syringe-guy though but I also thought it was weird it was a different goon.
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Jun 3, 2017 02:58
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Not killing her before the cops found her: Meemo was going to, but got the call about Ray's death and thus had to leave as it was a bigger problem. Perhaps Varga even told him to let Nikki live as they were going to let her take the fall. Why wouldn't you want Nikki dead now? They'd like the story that Ray beat her and she killed him, but the only way to control the story is to control Nikki. She could still produce evidence of where she was considering how fast Ray's body was found. The only way to control Nikki is to kill her and the syringe might have been to make it look like a suicide. I'm assuming it was a Varga henchman. Nikki would have stayed in the lockup there if it hadn't been for the murder attempt. She was only being sent off to a more secure prison for protective custody reasons. Yuri wouldn't have any other reason to attack the bus as far as we know. Yuri's bus attack could be symbolic of Varga beginning to unravel. Sy was able to talk to some sense to Emmit by pointing out how hare-brained it would be for Sy to side with Ray. I'm probably reading too much into it. Also hoping the Widow Goldfarb pops up again. RC and Moon Pie fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 03:33
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ArmZ posted:i tend to agree, but on the other hand that is exactly how an insecure macho cop would treat a woman he felt threatened by, talking down to her, etc. In your head and in a badly written character's plot sure. Talk down to, sure. Ignore clear cut evidence of a homicide spree and conspiracy? No.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:14
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Odenkirk in season one had the characteristic of being too nice to be a cop. he always gives his buddy the benefit of the doubt, he adopts war orphans. that was at least a trait, unlike this new guy who just acts like an dumbass for no apparent reason. other than he's the new chief (or is he) and it's his way or the highway.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:44
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^What he said. I quoted someone else on this earlier, but Odenkirk was a fine character. He wasn't flat out obstructionist, he just couldn't fathom a world where someone like Lester could commit such sinister crimes. His world wasn't built for that, and I might be remembering this wrong but I'm pretty sure he retires at the end of the season because of his world view getting shattered by it. ChesterJT posted:Talk down to, sure. Ignore clear cut evidence of a homicide spree and conspiracy? No. I think it fits in pretty well with the general theme of this season: people have an incredible weakness against stories. This guy immediately decided that Gloria is an insubordinate and everything she's said and does falls under that lens. He's writing her off at mostly because of the sunk cost of his narrative view of her. And that makes him blind to what to us is clear cut evidence. Still, it'd definitely help to have a couple of scenes with him with someone that isn't Gloria.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:55
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I was also kinda bummed when a fourth goon showed up in the prison. I was so ready for one of the big reveals at the end to be that Varga's operation is actually just him, the two goons, and their truck... but I feel like they might go in the opposite direction now- Varga is caught but they pull back to show thousands of others like him meandering about tricking their own parking lot kings.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:57
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Did I totally miss something or has the part of the first episode with the Stasi interrogation not been explained at all yet?
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Jun 3, 2017 05:11
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Craptacular posted:Did I totally miss something or has the part of the first episode with the Stasi interrogation not been explained at all yet? The guy that actually committed the crime is Yuri, the Russian goon. Other than that, mostly just framing the central theme of the season.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:13
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uber_stoat posted:this new guy who just acts like an dumbass for no apparent reason. He compensates for stupidity with aggression.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:33
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I haven't been following the thread so I don't know what the consensus is so far but I'm not really feeling this season. I feel like the Russian subplot has the potential to be extremely relevant and timely thematically but this was written so long ago (in terms of current events) I'm not sure how far they're going to go with it. That's the most interesting part of the show right now for me, since the characters all kinda suck despite the killer cast. As of now I'm barely hanging on by virtue of the first two seasons and Legion.
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Jun 3, 2017 07:34
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Colonel Whitey posted:I haven't been following the thread so I don't know what the consensus is so far but I'm not really feeling this season. I feel like the Russian subplot has the potential to be extremely relevant and timely thematically but this was written so long ago (in terms of current events) I'm not sure how far they're going to go with it. That's the most interesting part of the show right now for me, since the characters all kinda suck despite the killer cast. As of now I'm barely hanging on by virtue of the first two seasons and Legion. I thought this was being filmed while Legion was airing, so about three months ago at the earliest?
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Jun 3, 2017 08:00
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Krispy Kareem posted:The fake cop might not be Vargas' guy. If he wanted Nikki dead there are far easier ways to do it (at the motel). I think we're about to get a 3rd plotline. Maybe Nikki is involved in some other poo poo. It seems too...odd, that Vargas would have a 3rd henchman no one has seen until now who is played by an actual name actor viewers recognize. Why not just use the Asian guy again unless the fake cop is meant to be expanded upon. Heck, Gloria didn't even see his face so it's not like Asian guy would have blown Vargas' cover.
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Jun 3, 2017 09:00
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I'll hold off on judging the whole season until it ends but I agree with most of the critics here, the antagonists in Fargo used to be written better than what we've seen so far. Malvo was malevolent and sadistic but since he was turned against assholes and idiots most of the time he was both scary and fascinating to watch. The Gearhardt family was so well written, each character had its flaws and values, all of their actions made sense despite being all over the loving map. Fully loving actualized characters. And Hanzee as the wild card is glorious. Varga (and his russian goon to an extent) has the bad-guy-eloquence problem which is a bit lazy characterization, but mostly that dude is not as menacing as he is gross. Gross front and center character isnt working for most of us i think. Accretionist posted:He compensates for stupidity with aggression. I like that explanation of the police chief. Bob Odenkirk had the same purpose but he was fully fleshed out and you could always tell he was going to side with Martin Freeman before he did (and that scene with the Sudanese adoptee is incredible). Here it's mostly frustrating and it doesnt make much sense.
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Jun 3, 2017 09:04
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I think the show creators need to sit down and watch Fargo (the film) again. Every season they seem to get further and further away from what makes that movie brilliant, and are left with just the superficial bits (ie, golly-gee earnest police chief investigates violent crimes in small snowy town). That said, I think this season's OK. I just don't know what it has to do with Fargo anymore.
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Jun 3, 2017 11:31
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Calling it now, because it will be amazing if it's true and nobody will remember if it isn't: Gloria is the robot from the novel.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:04
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sticklefifer posted:Gloria didn't, no, but Nikki DID see Meemo's face, meaning she wouldn't have cooperated to put the cuffs on in the cell, and he wouldn't have been able to leave if she caused a scene. The fake cop had to do it silently, and the second she saw Meemo in there his cover would've been blown. Therefore, use a henchman unknown to her, cuff her to the bars, and kill her silently with the syringe. But yeah, the fake cop being DJ Qualls most likely means he'll be expanded upon. I rewatched last night. Outside the cell area door, is the desk with about 2' of space between it and the wall for a person to get through (where Gloria asks first to be let in to speak to Nikki). At that desk is a cop facing anyone attempting to get in. Have to assume it was a fake cop attempting to kill Nikki. A known cop would have been recognized by the door guard, and the door guard could have easily said "oh yeah, that was so-and-so". Not only did fake cop get past that guard, but then Gloria as well right after. Only when the shot rang out (that ninja sweeping leg disarming Gloria was even more ridiculous on the rewatch) did anyone seem to notice that people were in the cell room. Not a single person saw Qualls go in or run out... This after they made a huge point of both the paperwork thing as well as there being barely enough room to move in the various parts of the building. Regarding the woman trying to buy the company, at this point I believe she is partners in Varga's scheme. Likely it was her fake cop and likely that it was Varga that she was on the phone with in the restaurant after Stussi was told about Ray and when the cop approached her to ask questions. Trying to manipulate Stussy into selling for dirt cheap? It appeared the new chief was one of the cops that broke into Nikki's room and pulled her out of the window, and also when first interrogating Nikki, nearly verbatim repeated the fake abuse theory Varga came up with. Would explain how Varga knew so quickly that she was going to the Fed prison under "protective custody" and the route/time the bus would be on. If this is the case it makes his character even more eye-rollingly bad. The reason Varga needs Enis' report? I havent the foggiest. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 13:47
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Varga didn't need the case file, he just wanted it because it kills him to not know things. He wanted to know what the police know, and he couldn't do that his usual way via the internet because Eden Valley is off the grid and their police station is stuffed in a library.
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Jun 3, 2017 14:07
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Rochallor posted:Calling it now, because it will be amazing if it's true and nobody will remember if it isn't: Gloria is the robot from the novel. Gloria is Schrodinger's Cop. She both is, and isn't. That's why the doors don't open for her. IIRC this was stated outright in an interview.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:21
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precision posted:Gloria is Schrodinger's Cop. She both is, and isn't. That's why the doors don't open for her. IIRC this was stated outright in an interview. That sounds like a misunderstanding about how Schrodinger's Cat theory works or what it is about.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:35
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