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Avalerion posted:I think the Silas thing is just plain regular forgetting some kid you used to play with when little, not amnesia. Wasn't it stated in their supports that Corrin was put through Nohrian brainwashing to forget Silas?
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Jun 2, 2017 17:42
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MightyPretenders posted:Wasn't it stated in their supports that Corrin was put through Nohrian brainwashing to forget Silas? I don't remember that to be honest. When he joins in conquest Corrina recognizes him once reminded so I'm leaning towards mundane forgetting.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:39
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Silas corrin support is already been done
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Jun 2, 2017 18:47
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EponymousMrYar posted:Counterpoint: I'm a Freakin' Dragon. Counter-Counterpoint: The end of Birthright taught us that he's a FAR BIGGER Dragon than we are.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:22
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Okay, caught up after an internet outage. Unit review stuff! Forrest - He is a pure caster, to such a degree that he will STILL be a caster even with a mother like Charlotte; his Skill kinda needs help, though. His personal is... well, basically a nerfed inversion of Charlotte's, really; they both get higher damage against the same gender, though Charlotte's is higher, gives extra Crit as well, and isn't limited to countering (though at least Forrest's target is far more common than Charlotte's, since most enemies are male). As Tae stated back when he was recruited, though, you don't want anything attacking him since he's a pure caster, and thus really bad against physical units (though he has surprisingly high HP growth). Also, drat this is stupid. Like, words fail me as to just HOW stupid it is. I feel like Revelations cannot possibly be as stupid as Conquest at this point. Aaaand gratuitous Hans and Iago for gratuitous war crimes, with Garon randomly appearing to prevent you from doing anything about it. Where were they, and why the hell are they even here? Besides the whole "punish the player for choosing wrong way back when" thing, of course; while I can understand that reasoning when it's a logical conclusion (pulling the chain connected to the giant vat of molten steel? Of COURSE it's gonna tip over on you), when the tagline of the route is "change the Kingdom of Evil from within" there're problems. I mean, we're 22 chapters in with literally no sign of change, and Hans and Iago railroading things into Maximum War Crimes when there is literally no story reason to do so (we get it, they're irredeemably evil, you don't have to keep reminding us).
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Jun 2, 2017 21:39
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Tae posted:Silas corrin support is already been done Only the C support, it seems.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:51
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MightyPretenders posted:Only the C support, it seems. Oh right. Well, it's just corrin being really forgetful. Pretty sure that's an in-game gag somewhere.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:56
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https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Fates_Supports/Avatar(M)_Silas Hmm, looks like it can be read either way. And of course they eventually just decided to make his Birthright introduction the subject of as many "This is suspicious, unbelievable, and awkward." jokes as they could think of. MightyPretenders fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 00:54
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 Izana's joining the team, same as Birthright. Same as before, high magic/resistance, okay speed.   You thought conquering the fortress that was pivotal in defense in Birthright would be the last one? No, it's this OTHER mega fortress we have to conquer now!  There's still FOUR more chapters after this. Jeez.   Not well. She won't speak a word, and I'm told she refuses to eat. I'm not surprised. Poor thing. For someone so young to witness the massacre of all those soldiers... We're lucky we were able to take Sakura, Yukimura, and the retainers as hostages. If Iago and Hans weren't frightened of Xander, they would be dead right now.Yes, Sakura and the others are alive as hostages. Because we do that now apparently. I've heard that Sakura is being kept separate from the rest. Is that so? But Elise has been visiting her quite often, making sure she gets food and blankets. Elise has been doing all that? I'm a little surprised. Back in Izumo, she seemed rather hostile toward Sakura...Yeah, because she was jealous of your affection towards her, not actual evil intent  Perhaps she's learned to focus on what they have in common. After all, they are both princesses, and the youngest of   We should keep close watch on them, or I shudder to think what might happen. You're right. I wish it weren't so... But those who still follow Father over Xander are not to be trusted. Indeed. As it were... The Nohrian army is split in two as of now. What do you mean? Hey, only took literally most of the game to get this point. Better late than never? And those who still swear fealty only to King Garon, Iago, and Hans.Someone swearing loyalty to Hans is goddamn hilarious. Conquering Hoshido is our only option, but our methods have drawn attention. If things continue like this, we might have a rebellion of sorts to contend with. It's convenient that King Garon is already here in Hoshido... But if something happens and we lose his trust, we will all be in grave danger. Until he sits on that throne, we should all proceed with extreme caution. You're right. We must be patient. The whole world depends on it.  If for some incredible reason you forgot why we're conquering and killing Hoshido, it's to still get to that drat chair. And no, the plan has not proceeded beyond doing that. Only then can we— Lady Corrine. Lady Azura. Iago?! Am I interrupting something? No, not at all. Did you need something? King Garon orders you and your troops to prepare for battle immediately.  The Great Wall of Suzanoh? Oh, my apologies, young princess. I take it you've never heard of the place before? It's the last hurdle that stands between us and the Hoshidan castle. Once we pass through, we will enter the capital city. My forces shall be leading the charge. You, on the other hand, have been tasked with conquering the enemy's core legion.  Wouldn't you be better off taking on the core? You can literally teleport and cause illusions to trick allies into being monsters. ...Am I the only one that remembers this? Takumi...is leading Hoshido's core legion? Yes. We received word of it from our scouts not too long ago. I see. We already have Princess Sakura as a hostage, so no need to keep him alive. I'm sure you would prefer to spare him, but I doubt our dear king would agree... *sigh*  However, first things first. For now I must focus on the battle ahead. I will tell my troops to prepare for battle. Understood. *Corrine leaves* ...Heh heh...  I'm actually super annoyed now that I'm the only one doing any actual work around here.   Big fortress, lots of Ballista reigning down on the battlefield while we storm the gates. And I JUST got done with something similar before, ugh. Stats: HERE Bench 2: http://www.strawpoll.me/13100069 Tae fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 01:16
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Either Azura just turned evil, or you mixed up almost all of Iago's faces with Azura's.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:21
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 Suzanoh, or as it should be romanized, Susanooh, was the Japanese god of storms. Even if this game has a plot that would be rejected by the world's cheapest publishing agency if it was a book, it at least has some educational content!
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Jun 3, 2017 01:22
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Considering the Hoshidans are supposed to be super awesome Mary Sues and we're just invading to get a chair, I can't see why they can't donate it. I'm sure they're charitable enough. 
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Jun 3, 2017 01:29
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It's chapter 23 Conquest. You have no choice but to capture Rallyman even though we aren't on Lunatic difficulty.
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Jun 3, 2017 02:34
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LEGO Genetics posted:It's chapter 23 Conquest. You have no choice but to capture Rallyman even though we aren't on Lunatic difficulty. Agreed. It's time for the real hero of Fates to appear
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Jun 3, 2017 03:30
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LEGO Genetics posted:It's chapter 23 Conquest. You have no choice but to capture Rallyman even though we aren't on Lunatic difficulty.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:08
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...Let me guess, a random enemy with like, every rally skill?
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Jun 3, 2017 04:15
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The Golux posted:...Let me guess, a random enemy with like, every rally skill? two on normal/hard, four on lunatic Rallyman believes in you.
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Jun 3, 2017 04:25
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Tae posted:
This line made me legitimately mad the first time I saw it. Okay, I feel sorry for Hoshido on this route because of all the misery that happens to them caused by Corrine, but this is feels like the most spineless middle ground possible. They have people die as a consequence due to Corrine's descision to invade with Garon... But it's just faceless, random mooks that don't mean anything, while the named characters survive. It comes off as this annoying non committal to have Corrine feel bad... But not have anyone important die. Also, Garon let the mooks get murdered under his watch, but not the actually important people... I... gently caress Conquest.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:38
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  What you crave, given your druthers, is steak.  What's up? Changed your mind about staying straitjacketed by society's rules?
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Jun 3, 2017 16:41
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Emperordaein posted:This line made me legitimately mad the first time I saw it. Elise and Xander on the hoshido path show they are not averse to killing of named characters though, in Elise's case it's even someone you might have actually cared for.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:24
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Tae posted:
And yet, Soleil can't S rank with the Avatar or any other woman.
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Jun 3, 2017 21:24
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As much as we poo poo on the writing of this game, sending the polticially dubious unit (yours) into the most dangerous place makes sense. I mean, you keeping the "get the chair" part doesn't, but that is this game. Having burned out on this game again I'm looking forward to seeing how stupid this gets.
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Jun 4, 2017 00:21
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Emperordaein posted:This line made me legitimately mad the first time I saw it. Okay, I feel sorry for Hoshido on this route because of all the misery that happens to them caused by Corrine, but this is feels like the most spineless middle ground possible. They have people die as a consequence due to Corrine's descision to invade with Garon... But it's just faceless, random mooks that don't mean anything, while the named characters survive. It comes off as this annoying non committal to have Corrine feel bad... But not have anyone important die. I gotta admit, I'm surprised at how it played out but not in a good way. This was the time to be bold with the storytelling if there ever was one. Garon arrives and declares his intentions, Hans begins beheading the prisoners of war, Xander is helpless to intervene, how will Corrine get out of this one? I was actually excited to see what happened next. But then it just fades to black, and the climax happens offscreen? Corrine and Azura going "oh boy it sure is a good thing we managed to talk King  into sparing their lives and taking them hostage" after the fact is the laziest handwave possible, because the writers surely knew there was no way they could have convinced him onscreen without it looking like a giant asspull. Not that it isn't one.
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Jun 4, 2017 01:44
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 I don't know why I bothered typing Izana's name. That was going to go nowhere. I'm so happy Leo's here, because he's so much better than Arthur at killing things.   But know that so long as there is a single breath in my body, I will not let you pass. I mean that. You shall not enter our capital under any circumstances.  Are you ready, dear Sister? Today is the day you die! Even if I must give my life to achieve it, I will not fail.  He still seems mad. You think he's still mad?   This map is a lot of fighting against AI programming. You have groups of enemies with rally skills, and they will basically buff their little group continuously. This basara/spear master group will have +4 magic and strength.   Counter Archers. Great.   The Wall of Hinata surrounds himself with rally-ers and he himself is beefy. His "weakness" to magic is minimized by Magic Counter, so it's pretty tough to take him out with that boss tile.   The first thing to do is counter out the two long-range enemies on this side of the map. Now, the usual cheese strategy here is to ferry your entire team across this gap. That doesn't involve killing Hinata, though and I want to kill Hinata (also I need the EXP cause half my party is pretty underleveled).  Also fun, fighting an enemy triggers these Master of Arm reinforcements. They each have a couple specialized weapons to super-kill a lance/sword/axe. And they each have Rally skills.   You may have noticed that a ton of enemies on this map are teetering at like 26-29 speed. That's why I'm incredibly disappointed in stats that would normally be pretty drat good in Birthright but this is Conquest. You need amazing stats just to get by, not counting enemy skills.   Charlotte clears out another enemy and sets up to counter-kill the third one. She gets to level 13 for +HP/SKL/SPD   This is taking advantage of very specific AI. That archer is surrounded by three Basara with spells and melee weapon, but they will NOT move beyond adjacent of the archer. So Ophelia is going to abuse the fact that they will not use their melee weapon on her. The archer will also not attack with its bow unless a flier is within two spaces. Ophelia counter-killed all three Basara for a +STR/MAG/SPD level.   More AI nonsense. The archers will not move unless someone is in their range, but reinforcements will immediately aggro to us.   Ophelia eliminates the first ballista of the day while Leo shows his worth as a guy with a free silver weapon. He gets a great level worth a +HP/STR/MAG/SPD/LCK. 22 speed at level 9 is drat fine blessings considering he had 15 speed juts 7 levels ago. That Speedwing was worth it.   A lot of clean-up hits involved in taking out these pair-up MoA.   That takes care of the first reinforcement batch. Leo accelerates his catching up by getting +STR/MAG/SPD/RES.  More reinforcements show up if you trigger those archers. Now I'm dealing with the Counter archers, Spear Masters, and four more jerks to the party. You can see why most people just do the ferry thing. ...Did I mention those reinforcements have rally speed?   A lot of delicate maneuvering since the reinforcements are in range next turn. Camilla gets to lvl 13 for +STR/MAG/SKL/SPD/DEF. Only 23 speed which is massively disappointing considering she started with 19 at level 1.   Xander gets to level 12 for +HP/SKL/SPD/LCK/DEF. Xander at 19 speed is more understandable since he's got the bulk to survive bad speed.   Ophelia is going to take care of the bottom Spear Masters trying to pincer in. Laslow gets some chip damage for a level. At 23 speed, he is probably the slowest ninja in the world.   Noooo the streak is over! Oh well, 25 res is drat good with 42 HP for some mage tanking.   It never ends! Not enough trees to fight these guys.   Selena deals the final blow below the fort. Now it's time for Hinata bashing.   Corrine starts off the battle with a debuff, getting a chip level in return. She's also the first to reach 15, netting Nohrian Trust which is hilarious to think about at this point. Yes, the Hinata crew doesn't move period until they're attacked. The worst kind of AI.    I won't back down to the likes of you no-good scoundrels! Stand back and watch as I protect Lord Takumi and all of Hoshido!What's nice about Hinata is that he's willing to leave his boss tile so it's easier to kill him. I guess that's in-character of the dumb-dumb to do that. Neither he or Oboro have special dialogue, unfortunately.   Leo is right back on the speed-gaining train!   Oh right, Triple Threat is a skill. Eh. Effie gets +STR/SPD/RES.  Lord Takumi... Stay...strong... I hope he knows...getting this blade from him...was my proudest moment...Let's hope he's dead dead and not fake dead because Hana sure sounded dead last mission.   Bows are only scary if they can hit first! Odin gets to 32, gaining everything but STR/DEF   Ophelia finishes off the last remaining enemy outside the wall. She picks up Toxic Brew, a skill that does something if Ophelia somehow doesn't kill her opponent. And opponents that survive probably are super bosses who are immune to it.   Entering the wall is basically a death trap unless you have obscene amounts of firepower. And currently, I do not have that. I have a lot, but nearly enough if I had a dedicated team.   Oboro is very basic, but deadly. Big stats (28 speed, wtf), Luna, and Nohr Enmity makes her a heavy hitter to deal with. No range though, she's actually pretty easy to kill.   So here's the strategy I use for a lot of turns: Pop in, counterhit people, draw in Oboro's crew, exit the stairs, wait for Oboro's team to retreat back, repeat. This goes on for quite a while. *Many days later*   The enemy forces have thinned enough from constant Javelin assaults for the team to charge in.   As long as I live, I won't let you lay a finger on my dear Lord Takumi!!It's a real drat shame she doesn't have custom dialogue because this would be prime roasting of her on Corrine or Azura.  That was dangerous. Corrine beefy enough to take on half a dozen attacks and curse them all.   EFFIE FEEDS ON HOSHIDAN GENERALS  Aww...but I wanted to protect you...my sweet Takumi...  I should have told you...how I felt... Lord Takumi... I have always...loved..... Nice! And Effie picks up Pavise.   You gained 3 speed in 13 levels. YOU HAVE A 60% GROWTH IN SPEED, HOW    4 stat level "Oh, I'm just happy to get anything" 5 stat level "WHAT IS THIS, A GOD DESERVES MORES"   And Forrest eliminates the final enemy outside of Takumi's group. Forrest gets a nice level with everything but DEF/RES.   Vengeance, Rend Heaven, beefy stats, Point-Blank. It's basically a coin-flip if Takumi kills you or not.  Iffy hit rate even after applying Leo's Heartseeker. Stupid boss tile.  I have dreamt of nothing but ending you, and now the time has come! I shall cherish the sound of life leaving your body for all eternity. Do you remember what I told you in Cheve? Do you?! You said you would not rest until you killed me—made me pay for my sins. That's right. There's no turning back now... Not for me. This is all I have left. For better or for worse, this will be our last meeting. It ends here.  I made up my mind to kill you a long time ago, my forgotten sister. I WILL have revenge for Mother and all the Hoshidan lives you've ruined!! Takumi... Brother...  "Remember Cheve?"   "Payback hurts" This can't be...how it ends.. Takumi drops a Goddess Icon. Those treasure chests were taken off-screen for 10k gold and Boots.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:47
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I just realized that Takumi running with Point-Blank on this route was probably the horrifying foreshadowing the world needed for what would become his reign of Close Counter terror in Heroes.
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Jun 4, 2017 06:48
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I always am too impatient to do the stairdance and tend to bumrush it. It's a very bad idea. Lategame Conquest has ceased to gently caress around.
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Jun 4, 2017 07:44
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Yeah I don't think there's actually a nice map from this point to the endgame, it's assholes all the way down
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Jun 4, 2017 08:49
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I actually really like this map, partly because it's one of the few times Conquest feels kind of open in its map design and partly because it's actually good plot/gameplay connection. Sakura had this big defensive set-up when you fought her, but she was working with Yukimura - he probably planned it. And when we fought Ryoma before, he just had a bunch of ninjas behind walls. And Hinoka just had her guys hang out in random rooms with no real logic to it. Compare to this map, where Takumi's in command and suddenly the enemies are working together and supporting each other, and in formations that actually make sense. It does a good job of painting Takumi as the strategist of the Hoshido royals, which actually is mentioned in a few of his supports. Put it together with how the defense chapter got harder and harder as Takumi's guys piled in and actually ambushed you/made smart use of the dragon vein, and the game manages to paint Takumi as a skilled tactician without everyone having to go 'ooh takumi you're so smart' like with Robin or Soren or whatever. It's probably one of the few bits of really excellent writing in the game. A few FE games have managed to show recurring enemies as physical threats, like the Black Knight, but FE5's idea of a recurring tactician enemy was just to give every enemy +45 avoid/hit. Endorph fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 12:21
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 "Time to get not-murdered in oblivion!" The Nohrian army has seized control of the Great Wall of Suzanoh. All remaining soldiers will be taken prisoner. That includes you. Dammit! Coward! I hope you rot in a pit of eternal torment for this!! ...  You may be our prisoner, but we will not treat you cruelly. If you behave, we may even let you see your sister, Princess Sakura. WHAT?! You've captured Sakura too? You monsters!!"She should've died in dignity over being prisoners to NOHRIAN SCUM" I know how you must be feeling, Takumi, but please calm yourself. We must bind and imprison you before Father arrives. Please, just put out your hands and— Takumi? I mean it! Don't come near me!! If it wasn't for you, none of these awful things would have happened to Hoshido! No one would have had to die! We could have been a family!  Still trying to figure this one out Why didn't you choose us?! Your real family! Why?! Takumi! I... *sob* Don't you speak my name, traitor! *sob* ... It doesn't matter. Nothing matters—not anymore. Takumi... Why would you say that?  Super Saiyan Purple? I can still save Hoshido even without the blade of salvation... You can't keep me prisoner... See? Do you see?! You shouldn't have left me a way...a way to escape...   Killing yourself is certainly one way of escaping the situation.  TAKUMI! NOOOO!! Takumi! Please, no... Th-this can't be happening... I won't let it! TAKUMI!! What do you mean "Let it happen," it kinda already did.... *Corrine runs to the bottom* Corrine! What ae you doing?! I'm going after him! He might still be alive! No, it's too dangerous! That area isn't under Nohr's control yet! Corrine!! *They reach the base of the wall*  Takumi! Where are you?! He's not here... But how? He must have fallen somewhere nearby... Wait, Corrine! You can't go that way! Hoshidan soldiers might still be afoot! (Azura catches up)  What?! We saw him fall... He fell down this very wall. But he's not down here! How could that be? That's simply not possible. After falling that far, it would be a miracle for him to be alive, much less still mobile. Then where is he? I...I don't know. Perhaps somebody removed his body. There must be an explanation. ... The pigeon toe stance is still very distracting. We need to get back to our troops. If we don't have the wall under our control when King Garon's forces arrive... There's no telling how many innocent lives will be lost. Dammit... You're right. OK. Let's go. We must hurry, Corrine. There's no time to lose. Takumi... Where are you...?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:13
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Oh no Takumi is totally dead and his body disappeared  Game, please, make me care about something in the main plot.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:24
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Omobono posted:Oh no Takumi is totally dead and his body disappeared Fates:  "OkAy, mOrE ThiRd paTh refere...referere...buy thIrd pAtH!"As you can tell by my unfunny bit, I've lost all respect for this game's writing. And yes, I did have respect for it, for some stupid reason.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:46
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Thank goodness IntSys went back to a good plot with solid writing in Echoes. Even without giving away anything, there are some chuckle-worthy lines there, unlike here, where all funny lines are in the "so bad it's funny" category. "Shut up, Tobin" comes to mind, but Mae and Boey trade a few great quips as well ("Roasting marshmallows", anyone?)
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Jun 4, 2017 18:56
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that's not really intsys so much as the different translators.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:04
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Endorph posted:that's not really intsys so much as the different translators. The translators didn't write the basic plot for Fates, IntSys did. Sure, I can say that Echoes has a better overall translation than Fates, but I'd rather have a good plot that was translated sub-parly rather than an excellently translated plot that sucked.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:10
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Junpei posted:Thank goodness IntSys went back to a good plot with solid writing in Echoes. Even without giving away anything, there are some chuckle-worthy lines there, unlike here, where all funny lines are in the "so bad it's funny" category. The fact that Echoes is a remake of Gaiden might have something to do with it; maybe they're just the kind of writers who can't do anything original to save their lives, but they can elaborate on a plot someone else made just fine. ...I can't believe I said that with a straight face.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:53
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CptWedgie posted:The fact that Echoes is a remake of Gaiden might have something to do with it; maybe they're just the kind of writers who can't do anything original to save their lives, but they can elaborate on a plot someone else made just fine. ...so they're destined to write fanfiction? ...I can't believe I just said that. Then again, I have some sort of natural talent to tell if a fic is good or not just by reading a synopsis.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:59
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Junpei posted:The translators didn't write the basic plot for Fates, IntSys did. Sure, I can say that Echoes has a better overall translation than Fates, but I'd rather have a good plot that was translated sub-parly rather than an excellently translated plot that sucked. I mean, you can definitely tell that the original script of Echoes is better than Fates even in translation (I mean, unless the translation team completely rewrote Echoes which is a bit unlikely nowadays) But JRPGs are carried more by charm and character than plot, so I'd argue that the better translation is a bit more important. Besides a good plot would get mangled by a bad translator anyway.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:02
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Camel Pimp posted:I mean, you can definitely tell that the original script of Echoes is better than Fates even in translation (I mean, unless the translation team completely rewrote Echoes which is a bit unlikely nowadays) But JRPGs are carried more by charm and character than plot, so I'd argue that the better translation is a bit more important. Besides a good plot would get mangled by a bad translator anyway. I didn't say BAD translation, I said SUB-PAR. Breath of Fire 1 had a sub-par translation. Breath of Fire 2 had a bad one. One is simply wooden and dry, the other is full of grammar mistakes and renamed characters.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:03
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Conquest rules and is better then Echoes if you skip all cutscenes.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:12
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Conquest is the Freedom Planet of Fire Emblem. Great game as long as you play the mode with all the story stuff removed.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:22
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