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Hollismason posted:Also in the Paradise Island section You can see women holding hands and such all through out it. Plus you got that one scene where her teacher dies and her partner runs up and falls down crying . So they kind of subtle nudged that in there That makes the joke based on Diane's confusion over holding hands in London stranger in retrospect. As a question I can't quite remember, who shot first on the beach battle? I know the Amazons launched a volley of flaming arrows at the boats but did the Germans actually attack them prior to that?
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Jun 4, 2017 02:26
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I don't see a lot of movies, not in theaters at least. So maybe it doesn't mean much when I say this was one of the worst movie I've seen in theaters. Can someone who knows film making and story telling explain to me why I was so easily able to suspend my disbelief while watching Captain America and accept how it worked World War 2 into such an inherently silly genre while I found myself constantly offended by how this movie worked itself in World War 1? I admit I'm a total amateur  historian but I don't feel like I'm nitpicking here, I just found everything absolutely baffling. It's not like it was any less realistic than Captain America, in fact it tried to be more grounded. But maybe that's the problem?
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Jun 4, 2017 02:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I don't see a lot of movies, not in theaters at least. So maybe it doesn't mean much when I say this was one of the worst movie I've seen in theaters. Captain America fought Hydra, a Nazi subdivision. It found a way to have Nazis as enemies without having Nazis onscreen. As I remember it, it didn't insert itself into WW2 nearly as much as the comics. Rogers wants to fight, but he can't join up, so he ends up partaking in this experiment and performing very specific operations afterwards. None of which are part of actual campaigns.
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Jun 4, 2017 03:11
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Everything just kind of collapsed for me with the whole German high society gala that's held conveniently a mile from the front (the front that just disappears after the village (which should have been utterly leveled by then) is recaptured) where everyone just watches the village get shelled because mustache twirling reasons. At least I'm pretty sure that's what happened the movie seemed to just kind of forget what it was doing by that point.
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Jun 4, 2017 03:18
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I don't see a lot of movies, not in theaters at least. So maybe it doesn't mean much when I say this was one of the worst movie I've seen in theaters. Maybe because it seemed like the cause of the war was external (Ares) vs actual geopolitical strife?
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Jun 4, 2017 03:20
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Hollismason posted:She's basically learning all the abilities she has during this movie. She absolutely flies at the end in the battle with Ares If that were true she would have flown while fighting Doomsday. I love a Wonder Woman who hulk jumps instead of flies, makes her less like Superman and gives her a different feel. I really liked this movie, stupid parts and all up until the end sequence where Rather than use her training a skills to outsmart and pin down Aeres, she just has some stupid deus ex machina devil trigger poo poo which is loving stupid after showing that she is awesome without that poo poo for the whole film. Why didn't she use that against Doomsday and save Superman from killing himself? Its loving stupid. Liked how she actually killed him though, reflecting the lighting and all that. Great movie, second best DCCU film by far. Also, not an issue with the film but A better framing device for the story would have been her actually explaining the plot to Bruce while they are looking for metahumans to bookend the beginning and ending of the film and add more DCCU connections while leaving the core plot untouched.
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Jun 4, 2017 03:45
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hiddenriverninja posted:Maybe because it seemed like the cause of the war was external (Ares) vs actual geopolitical strife? But the cause of the war isn't presented as external. Ares makes the same argument that Moriarty makes in Sherlock Holmes: Game of Shadows- the evil masterminds are the ones that profit from the war that other people start. People are going to go to war regardless of what Ares does. I agree with Shimrra that the movie doesn't take its setting as seriously as it could. The scene in No Man's Land, as good as it looked, goes out of its way to portray trench warfare as a playground- there's no barbed wire, no artillery, no casualties, and all it takes for a successful attack over the top is a little bit of élan provided by Wonder Woman. I'm still trying to come up with a reading for this.
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Jun 4, 2017 03:49
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dublish posted:I agree with Shimrra that the movie doesn't take its setting as seriously as it could. The scene in No Man's Land, as good as it looked, goes out of its way to portray trench warfare as a playground- there's no barbed wire, no artillery, no casualties, and all it takes for a successful attack over the top is a little bit of élan provided by Wonder Woman. I'm still trying to come up with a reading for this. Do you treat Wonder Woman as a fairy tale? Maybe a Princess Bride-esque story told after the fact by either an observer or third party, where the details are embellished for the sake of storytelling clarity?
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Jun 4, 2017 03:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I don't see a lot of movies, not in theaters at least. So maybe it doesn't mean much when I say this was one of the worst movie I've seen in theaters. Captain America didn't suggest that all war was solved forever and Steve Rogers didn't decapitate Karl Dönitz decades before he actually died.
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Jun 4, 2017 03:53
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Baron Porkface posted:Captain America didn't suggest that all war was solved forever Neither did Wonder Woman
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Jun 4, 2017 04:05
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dublish posted:But the cause of the war isn't presented as external. Ares makes the same argument that Moriarty makes in Sherlock Holmes: Game of Shadows- the evil masterminds are the ones that profit from the war that other people start. People are going to go to war regardless of what Ares does. There were mortars, and she drew literally all of the fire.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:07
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Drifter posted:Do you treat Wonder Woman as a fairy tale? Maybe a Princess Bride-esque story told after the fact by either an observer or third party, where the details are embellished for the sake of storytelling clarity? Maybe. Reminds me of the scene at the end when the sun is dawning over Wonder Woman on the runway, but she's isolated in the middle of the shot while all the soldiers are hugging each other. I don't think this movie was as interesting as BvS, but it'll be a while before I stop thinking about it. Darko posted:There were mortars, and she drew literally all of the fire. Yes, I saw.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:08
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Neither did Wonder Woman No, she totally did. The film might not have, but that was her total motivation for most of the film.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:08
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MrJacobs posted:No, she totally did. The film might not have, but that was her total motivation for most of the film. But it was also part of the text that the fairytale version of Creation the Amazons gave her was part of a deliberate conspiracy to keep all aspects of her status and the nature of the world locked away until she could discover them for herself.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:12
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MrJacobs posted:No, she totally did. The film might not have, but that was her total motivation for most of the film. Yeah and we find out at the end the Amazons were lying to her about her origin and Ares' actions/intentions and that humans are a warlike species regardless of whatever she does.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:13
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Everything just kind of collapsed for me with the whole German high society gala that's held conveniently a mile from the front (the front that just disappears after the village (which should have been utterly leveled by then) is recaptured) where everyone just watches the village get shelled because mustache twirling reasons. At least I'm pretty sure that's what happened the movie seemed to just kind of forget what it was doing by that point. Part of the reason for this is they transported 1916 into 1918 to have this great trench scene. By November 1918 the Germans had lost hundreds of miles in northern France and Belgium as their exhausted lines were pushed back. Their army wasn't grimly staring down the allies across no mans land anymore they were collapsing in front of the Entente's Hundred day's offensive that broke through the front lines, over ran their fall back lines and was pursuing the army with a fair amount of speed to the German border. This obviously doesn't work with the popular understanding of WW1 so it's completely ignored. Another problem for me was the pointlessness of the super gas. Why does it matter if it can break gas masks if you're only planning on using it on civilian populaces? Also they already had gasses in WW1 that a gas mask wouldn't save you from.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:15
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Yeah but this one could melt through leather too
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Jun 4, 2017 04:18
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Steve Yun posted:Yeah but this one could melt through leather too The ultimate threat to William Marston, an attack on BDSM clubs!
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Jun 4, 2017 04:20
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farraday posted:Another problem for me was the pointlessness of the super gas. Why does it matter if it can break gas masks if you're only planning on using it on civilian populaces? Also they already had gasses in WW1 that a gas mask wouldn't save you from. Yeah that was another part of the movie that had a "written by committee" feel where it seemed that the script went through several rewrites and they'd either already done the pre-prod on the effects or they fell in love with certain scenes and visuals and didn't want to lose them even though they didn't really fit any more. First they establish that the super gas can break down gas masks, then they establish that it can be delivered via artillery, then they reveal that the big plan was to drop gas bomblets over London from a plane anyway. The actual point of those series of revelations was to act as heightened motivation for the characters and ramp up the tension towards the end to the point where Steve had to sacrifice himself to stop it all but they don't make a lot of sense in retrospect.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:31
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah that was another part of the movie that had a "written by committee" feel where it seemed that the script went through several rewrites and they'd either already done the pre-prod on the effects or they fell in love with certain scenes and visuals and didn't want to lose them even though they didn't really fit any more. First they establish that the super gas can break down gas masks, then they establish that it can be delivered via artillery, then they reveal that the big plan was to drop gas bomblets over London from a plane anyway. The actual point of those series of revelations was to act as heightened motivation for the characters and ramp up the tension towards the end to the point where Steve had to sacrifice himself to stop it all but they don't make a lot of sense in retrospect. It was to show how strong the gas was , it was shown that it would crack glass. Also, Gas Masks were in fact handed out to the civilian population and there were gas mask stations around London, and other major cities
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Jun 4, 2017 04:59
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This gas is soooo deadly I'm gonna stand on the other side of this leaky door and laugh while orange tufts of this deadly gas start swirling through the cracks
Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 04:59
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This gas is so flammable let's drop it on a big city and hope nobody's got a lit cigarette or we might as well have dropped conventional bombs.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:02
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Hollismason posted:It was to show how strong the gas was , it was shown that it would crack glass. Also, Gas Masks were in fact handed out to the civilian population and there were gas mask stations around London, and other major cities Yeah I guess it was pretty hard to show the development of the gas any other way that wasn't either incredibly dull (ie: actual lab work) or incredibly disturbing (ie: successful experiments on prisoners) so they came up with that compromise. They did show an earlier experiment on a prisoner which failed but that was still pretty horrible.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:10
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Hollismason posted:It was to show how strong the gas was , it was shown that it would crack glass. Also, Gas Masks were in fact handed out to the civilian population and there were gas mask stations around London, and other major cities That definitely happened in WW2 but I don't recall hearing about it during WW1.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:11
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farraday posted:Part of the reason for this is they transported 1916 into 1918 to have this great trench scene. By November 1918 the Germans had lost hundreds of miles in northern France and Belgium as their exhausted lines were pushed back. Their army wasn't grimly staring down the allies across no mans land anymore they were collapsing in front of the Entente's Hundred day's offensive that broke through the front lines, over ran their fall back lines and was pursuing the army with a fair amount of speed to the German border. This obviously doesn't work with the popular understanding of WW1 so it's completely ignored. They were planning to drop it all over No Man's Land though? I thought that was what the entire fight at the end was aiming to prevent.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:13
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Roth posted:They were planning to drop it all over No Man's Land though? I thought that was what the entire fight at the end was aiming to prevent. The Chief finds a map that indicates they plan to attack London.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:20
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Roth posted:They were planning to drop it all over No Man's Land though? I thought that was what the entire fight at the end was aiming to prevent. There was specifically a map at some point indicating the target was London. Which come to think of it made the timer issue a bit odd considering they would have had a couple hours to come up with a non suicidal plan. Not that the same problem didn't plague the same plot point in Captain America.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:23
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hiddenriverninja posted:Maybe because it seemed like the cause of the war was external (Ares) vs actual geopolitical strife? The whole point of the movie is the opposite. He didn't make them do anything. Humans had the choice and made the wrong one.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:27
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hiddenriverninja posted:The Chief finds a map that indicates they plan to attack London. farraday posted:There was specifically a map at some point indicating the target was London. Which come to think of it made the timer issue a bit odd considering they would have had a couple hours to come up with a non suicidal plan. Not that the same problem didn't plague the same plot point in Captain America. That was probably the part I had to get up to use the bathroom then.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:29
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Neither did Wonder Woman Ares explicitly succeeded in causing WWII. He had two plans. Plan A, the Germans use the gas and extend this war. Plan B, the Germans lose and an armistice is signed that leads to an even worse war later.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:31
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Charlz Guybon posted:Ares explicitly succeeded in causing WWII. This is, I think, a poor reading of history informed by our knowledge of later events. It may also be what the film intended. The problem is the armistice Ares is arguing for is not the Treaty of Versailles, which isn't negotiated until 1919. The armistice is metely a cessation of hostilities. When Ares says they'll inevitably break it or that it will cause a greater war, in the context than f ahistorical knowledge you can read that as WW2, but in the explicit meaning is a resumption of WW1. I think storywise the problem comes from having it seem like Ares was the only one in British high command who wanted an armistice in the first place. Exactly which peace faction was he destroying by getting the crazy Getman general to conduct a gas attack on London?
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Jun 4, 2017 05:49
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dublish posted:This gas is so flammable let's drop it on a big city and hope nobody's got a lit cigarette or we might as well have dropped conventional bombs. This gas is so deadly it will kill everyone in the town we launch it at, but not someone who shows up afterwards and stands 20 feet outside of the deadly gas cloud, coughing
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Jun 4, 2017 05:59
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I was with this movie until the end. Why is Ares a British grandpa? Why did he have a moustache the whole time? The whole theater laughed at Freddy Mercury Ares, and the whole final showdown suffered for it.
OMG JC a Bomb! fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 06:07
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:I was with this movie until the end. Why is Ares a British grandpa? Why did he have a moustache the whole time? The whole theater laughed at Freddy Mercury Ares, and the whole final showdown suffered for it. Because the real enemy is the Patriarchy 
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Jun 4, 2017 06:26
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:I was with this movie until the end. Why is Ares a British grandpa? Why did he have a moustache the whole time? The whole theater laughed at Freddy Mercury Ares, and the whole final showdown suffered for it. This is one of the things the movie gets absolutely, unequivocably right, though.
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Jun 4, 2017 06:45
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farraday posted:This is, I think, a poor reading of history informed by our knowledge of later events. It may also be what the film intended. He's an immortal genius who's been manipulating humanity since the dawn of time. It's hardly implausible he could predict another great war down the line. There were people of the time that thought it was likely.
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Jun 4, 2017 07:30
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Diana charging into No Man's Land was a fantastic scene, probably the best one i've seen in all these superhero movies so far. maybe the biggest thematic statement I'd say i also liked the thinly veiled penis jokes, those were good
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Jun 4, 2017 07:39
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Carlosologist posted:Diana charging into No Man's Land was a fantastic scene, probably the best one i've seen in all these superhero movies so far. maybe the biggest thematic statement I'd say Nothing beats Batman being scary and doing hardcore Batman poo poo to a bunch of highly trained mooks, blowing through them like they were nothing to him in BvS. That being said, the No Mans Land scene and the subsequent Village were the best scenes in the movie, and I was loving stoked to see them. I loved the part where the three guys launch her into the belltower
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Jun 4, 2017 08:11
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My memory is fuzzy... what happened with Dr Poison in the final battle? I remember Wonder Woman holding a tank over her but forgot how she got there or what happened after
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Jun 4, 2017 08:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Can someone who knows film making and story telling explain to me why I was so easily able to suspend my disbelief while watching Captain America and accept how it worked World War 2 into such an inherently silly genre while I found myself constantly offended by how this movie worked itself in World War 1? Captain America spent a lot of time properly setting the stage. Steve Rogers attempts and fails to get into the army, his buddy in the army shows up and talks about what it's like in the army, etc, Steve gets in, there's basic training, he serves in the USO which is raising funds for the war, etc. There's a lot of stuff related to war happening that revolves around the central fact that there's a war going on, so by the time Steve Rogers gets to his first battle, we've already accepted that this war is real.
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Jun 4, 2017 08:19
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