Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

I broadly agree but there's something decidedly Crawl about, say, running into a unique you thought you'd left two floors above you and abandoned forever

Mostly they suck though and punish you for nothing you can prevent

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:10

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 01:49

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

shaft traps are cool, put you in scary tense situations, and are rarely something you actually cannot survive

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:29

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Trunko posted:

Haha did they remove the link to Something Awful that was under "discussion" on the Crawl webpage?

We're just not focused on the important issues with Crawl right now like *checks tavern* ...removing Beogh!

IronicDongz posted:

shaft traps are cool, put you in scary tense situations, and are rarely something you actually cannot survive

I mostly agree with this but there's RNG involved in where it drops you. If it places you in the middle of an enemy pack your odds of survival are low and basically none if you don't have a teleport scroll.

I think a fair change that would keep their danger element would be changing it so they always place you outside of monster LOS. It'd still be dangerous to suddenly go down 3 floors, but at least now you have a chance to gather your bearings and aren't dropped right in front of an ogre.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:40

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Internet Kraken posted:

We're just not focused on the important issues with Crawl right now like *checks tavern* ...removing Beogh!

is he not unique enough?

_{_{_{BRING BACK MOUNTAIN DWARVES}}}

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:45

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

So here's a question about weapons.

I generally know when to switch to a better base weapon type and which brands are good, but short blades are a little trickier when enchantments are involved because they're all pretty close to one another in power and time (except for quickblades).

I'm a VSBe and I just found a +10 randart vampiric weapon... but it's a dagger. The base damage on a dagger is crap, but with the +10, how does it stack up to short swords and rapiers? I'd still prefer a well-branded quickblade, but this seems quite nice in the meantime.

Edit: I thought acquirement couldn't give you literally useless items, but I just got a scarf of spirit shield as a Vine Stalker. What a waste.

Prism fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jun 4, 2017

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:45

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Vampiric is a great brand even on shortblades (especially if you get opportunity stabs) and a dagger isn't much worse for damage than other shortblades at lower skill levels. Slaying bonuses matter more for shortblades in general as well, so that dagger will do fine until you get a decent rapier or quickblade. As a Trog worshippers that shouldn't take long.

Honestly if I find a +10 weapon of any kind early I'll often use it over anything else even when I have 0 skill with it and am investing in a different weapon type. Slaying bonuses are amazing early on.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 16:16

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

It's Zot 5 and you're in the entry vault.

Left Lung or Right Lung? Which do you always go for?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 16:34

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Darox posted:

Vampiric is a great brand even on shortblades (especially if you get opportunity stabs) and a dagger isn't much worse for damage than other shortblades at lower skill levels. Slaying bonuses matter more for shortblades in general as well, so that dagger will do fine until you get a decent rapier or quickblade. As a Trog worshippers that shouldn't take long.

Honestly if I find a +10 weapon of any kind early I'll often use it over anything else even when I have 0 skill with it and am investing in a different weapon type. Slaying bonuses are amazing early on.

Thanks, this is about what I figured.

Araganzar posted:

It's Zot 5 and you're in the entry vault.

Left Lung or Right Lung? Which do you always go for?

Left, unless it's blocked by a Zot trap in the tunnel or something.

Prism fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 4, 2017

# ? Jun 4, 2017 16:37

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Araganzar posted:

It's Zot 5 and you're in the entry vault.

Left Lung or Right Lung? Which do you always go for?

Usually the right lung. I think it has something to do with being right-handed and the general cultural sympathy for right-related things as linguistic concepts/associations.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 16:47

kickascii: Mar 30, 2010

Spent of yesterday splatting various draconian transmuters. They seem VERY squishy to me, have they always been like this? 25EV/15AC and just getting creamed by average stuff. Food is also an annoying issue as my spellcasting is low, casting blade hands and resting back my life all the time actually made permafood a slight issue.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 16:56

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

someone awful. posted:

Usually the right lung. I think it has something to do with being right-handed and the general cultural sympathy for right-related things as linguistic concepts/associations.

I almost always go right lung because duh right lung...(same reason as someone awful). Wonder if it correlates at all with handedness? Any left-handed goons go left?

code:

1653238 araganzar the Apostle (level 27, 271/271 HPs)
             Began as a Hill Orc Artificer on June 4, 2017.
             Was a High Priest of Beogh.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes!

We needed a Beogh win. Manman and EV4 have ridiculous scores so winning the tourney would be a miracle on iceform but it's been fun to be in the race!

# ? Jun 4, 2017 16:56

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

Araganzar posted:

It's Zot 5 and you're in the entry vault.

Left Lung or Right Lung? Which do you always go for?

Whichever lung has the most orbs of fire. I don't know ahead of time, but somehow I always pick it...

# ? Jun 4, 2017 17:03

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

speaking of z:5, i literally can't remember the last time I've gotten there and it hasn't had either a permanent zot and/or teleport trap in the choke of both lungs. Getting pretty sick of it!

# ? Jun 4, 2017 17:16

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Araganzar posted:

I almost always go right lung because duh right lung...(same reason as someone awful). Wonder if it correlates at all with handedness? Any left-handed goons go left?
code:
1653238 araganzar the Apostle (level 27, 271/271 HPs)
             Began as a Hill Orc Artificer on June 4, 2017.
             Was a High Priest of Beogh.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes!
We needed a Beogh win. Manman and EV4 have ridiculous scores so winning the tourney would be a miracle on iceform but it's been fun to be in the race!

I'm right handed and I go left.

BUT

I'm partially deaf in my left ear and thus prefer to be on the left side of every group (so I can use my good ear). Now that I think about it, I break left out of clusters in FF14 too.

So I wonder now if it's just subconscious that I go stand on the left side whenever given the opportunity.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 17:18

King of False Promises: Jul 31, 2000

Araganzar posted:

I almost always go right lung because duh right lung...(same reason as someone awful). Wonder if it correlates at all with handedness? Any left-handed goons go left?

I'm left-handed and I always go left unless there's a nasty trap blocking the corridor.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 17:27

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

I'm right handed but I always go left, assuming both lungs don't have traps in the entrances.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 17:34

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

I just go to the one without a trap, or sneak quietly into each one and see which has the least scary enemies.

Or I've gone Qazlal and I just shout and explode at the entrance to the lungs until things stop coming.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 18:05

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

I'm right handed and I've only made it to Zot once haha

# ? Jun 4, 2017 18:20

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

Everyone knows that easy-to-remember acronym AGR. You know, Always Go Rleft

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:53

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

I've been playing this game for 7 years and never won, but I've had a lot of fun along the way!

Over those years, I've switched up my characters only four times. I started with hobbit hunters worshiping the okawaru guy. Then I switched to minotaur berserker. Then a few years back I switched to gargoyle berserker. I loved those guys, mostly because of the innate poison resists and the flying. I loved flapping around the Dungeon in full plate armor with a demon whip like some sort of nightmare.

But now I've switched for the forth time.

Antmen. All Antmen all the time. Give me that double handed axe and plate armor and a huge shield and I'm burrowing around and tunneling and just going bananas. Oh whose this new God? The Lord of the dance? No problem lemme just line dance through these fools I'm a crazy ant check out my antennae.

Maybe this will be the year I win.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 21:34

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

Trunko posted:

I've been playing this game for 7 years and never won, but I've had a lot of fun along the way!

Over those years, I've switched up my characters only four times. I started with hobbit hunters worshiping the okawaru guy. Then I switched to minotaur berserker. Then a few years back I switched to gargoyle berserker. I loved those guys, mostly because of the innate poison resists and the flying. I loved flapping around the Dungeon in full plate armor with a demon whip like some sort of nightmare.

But now I've switched for the forth time.

Antmen. All Antmen all the time. Give me that double handed axe and plate armor and a huge shield and I'm burrowing around and tunneling and just going bananas. Oh whose this new God? The Lord of the dance? No problem lemme just line dance through these fools I'm a crazy ant check out my antennae.

Maybe this will be the year I win.

If your latest doesn't turn out well, you should try a merfolk gladiator of Gozag some time, tons of fun. You can either save a nice chunk of gold to bribe Zot and win easily, or you can piss away all your gold on shops and then switch gods to someone like the dancing god.

# ? Jun 5, 2017 00:19

Chakan: Mar 30, 2011

King of False Promises posted:

I'm left-handed and I always go left unless there's a nasty trap blocking the corridor.

This is the best way to be in all things.

# ? Jun 5, 2017 00:45

kickascii: Mar 30, 2010

What's the story with Transmutation?
-If you're using Blade Hands, does attack speed and damage depend on Unarmed/Fighting or your Bladehands spellpower?
-How much Unarmed should I train on a Transmuter?
-Are any Transmutations besides Blade Hands and Statue Form worth a drat? Hydra and Dragon Form seem very squishy, absolutely nothing ever seems to miss you
-Speaking of Statue Form, do I want to use a shield + unarmed? Not sure how wearing a shield affects unarmed damage.

I just lost my most recent guy to an Entropyweaver + Mark combo in Vaults. I had -16 corrosion and got 3 teleports off but none of them to a room I could survive. :argh:

# ? Jun 5, 2017 01:59

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

kickascii posted:

-If you're using Blade Hands, does attack speed and damage depend on Unarmed/Fighting or your Bladehands spellpower?
-How much Unarmed should I train on a Transmuter?

Spellpower only affects the duration and success rate of blade hands. Your offensive prowess is determined mainly by your unarmed skills. So you want to have as much unarmed as possible. It should be the main focus of your build, taking it all the way to 27 if you have the exp to afford doing so.

quote:

-Are any Transmutations besides Blade Hands and Statue Form worth a drat? Hydra and Dragon Form seem very squishy, absolutely nothing ever seems to miss you

Necromutation isn't a bad choice. It doesn't increase your offensive potential that much but it provides very powerful defenses in certain areas while not taking away any armour slots. Its difficult to cast but necromancy is a very useful school that combos well with transmutations, so its not a bad thing to build a character around especially if you plan to go extended. Unfortunately finding it is very unreliable unless you follow Kiku.

Hydra form is actually pretty good. Its only a level 6, pure transmutation spell so its feasible to get it up in the mid game. It ruins your defenses but the offensive potential is devastating. Notably, it gives you cleaving, something that is normally inaccessible to an unarmed character. The cleaving combined with the high attack power makes it very good for quickly chewing through crowds of enemies, and unlike blade hands it doesn't screw up casting other spells. You'll want to be using it in conjunction with necromutation or statue form, swapping between the two depending on the situation.

Dragon form is just a bad gimmick. Its offensively and defensively outclassed by the other forms. It can be fun to use, but its definitely not optimal.

EDIT: Oh yeah, irradiate is also a really strong spell, just a weird one. Its a very strong AOE that can't be resisted by anything. You just have to use it sparingly due to the glow effect.

quote:

-Speaking of Statue Form, do I want to use a shield + unarmed? Not sure how wearing a shield affects unarmed damage.

It really depends on your character. Using a shield takes away your auxiliary unarmed attack, which actually does pretty decent damage at high skill levels. However a good shield can really help improve your character's survivability. So you have to look at your character and ask if you want more defense or offense, and also if you have enough exp to raise shields while still investing in everything else.

quote:

I just lost my most recent guy to an Entropyweaver + Mark combo in Vaults. I had -16 corrosion and got 3 teleports off but none of them to a room I could survive.

Chug cancellation if you get hit by mark in a dangerous situation. It will dispel the mark effect so teleporting away will actually make enemies lose you. If you still have mark up when you teleport then all those enemies are gonna come charging back across the map to reach you, and you'll probably have even more coming as well.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jun 5, 2017

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:22

Wales Grey: Jun 20, 2012

kickascii posted:

What's the story with Transmutation?
-If you're using Blade Hands, does attack speed and damage depend on Unarmed/Fighting or your Bladehands spellpower?
-How much Unarmed should I train on a Transmuter?
-Are any Transmutations besides Blade Hands and Statue Form worth a drat? Hydra and Dragon Form seem very squishy, absolutely nothing ever seems to miss you
-Speaking of Statue Form, do I want to use a shield + unarmed? Not sure how wearing a shield affects unarmed damage.

I just lost my most recent guy to an Entropyweaver + Mark combo in Vaults. I had -16 corrosion and got 3 teleports off but none of them to a room I could survive.

Blade Hands damage scales with Unarmed and Str/Dex*. Delay is dependent on Unarmed. Fighting plays the same minor-but-helpful role it does for all combat. Spellpower just increases the duration.
Dunno. It's good tho. (base damage of 30 at 27 unarmed before bladehands/str/fighting/whatever modifiers and .5 au per attack)
Spider Form is very good, Dragon Form is fun if you're a draconian. Sticks to Snakes is insane at high spellpower.
Other than missing out on an offhand punch, which scales about 1/3 well as your normal offhand strike, shields are great! (why is shield bash not a thing)

*[Blade Hands Damage = 8 + (Str+Dex)/3 + UC] as per wiki

e: tree form has a base damage of 12+UC for its unarmed strikes :popeye:

Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jun 5, 2017

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:22

redneck nazgul: Apr 25, 2013

If you're going to use Unarmed as your main weapon, max that out. Spellpower is just going to increase the success rate/duration of transformations. All of your transformed damage is going to increase the base damage of Unarmed depending on the form, with extra bonuses based from Strength depending on the form.

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:30

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, why am I suddenly seeing tons of two-headed ogres before lair

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:43

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

you see them where previously you could have seen hill giants

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:47

Foxfire_: Nov 8, 2010

Had really weird luck the last few games, this game I didn't find any ID scrolls till D5

huh

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:47

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

redneck nazgul posted:

If you're going to use Unarmed as your main weapon, max that out. Spellpower is just going to increase the success rate/duration of transformations. All of your transformed damage is going to increase the base damage of Unarmed depending on the form, with extra bonuses based from Strength depending on the form.

Spellpower does increase the number of heads you start hydra form with, but that's it I think. Really not that big of a deal.

Indecisive posted:

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, why am I suddenly seeing tons of two-headed ogres before lair

Hill giants were removed and replaced with two-headed ogres in the spawn table.

# ? Jun 5, 2017 02:51

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

Indecisive posted:

is he not unique enough?

_{_{_{BRING BACK MOUNTAIN DWARVES}}}

Redundant with Yredelemnul was the main argument last time I looked at the tavern

# ? Jun 5, 2017 03:33

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Internet Kraken posted:

Dragon form is just a bad gimmick. Its offensively and defensively outclassed by the other forms. It can be fun to use, but its definitely not optimal.

Dragonform damage output is insane and better than basically everything except stabbing or chain lightning. You can absolutely shred anything and everything using it. The defenses are not great but it still provides a ton of HP as well. If you can wear a full set of armour blade hands usually trumps it but otherwise dragonform is a valuable transmutation.

The best transmuter races are Octopode and Draconian anyway so dragonform is #1

# ? Jun 5, 2017 03:35

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

Trunko posted:

Haha did they remove the link to Something Awful that was under "discussion" on the Crawl webpage?

lmao

# ? Jun 5, 2017 03:36

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Samog posted:

Redundant with Yredelemnul was the main argument last time I looked at the tavern

That's silly, IMO. But I do not read Tavern. (Nor am I particularly active these days, anyway!)

# ? Jun 5, 2017 03:56

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Holy loving buttshit how do you get a NaTm of chei off the ground, should I turn off everything but unarmed and transmutations until I can loving kill poo poo or what. I swear to gently caress I've died to every random trash mob in the first 5 floors, finally got to temple and promptly got destroyed by bees despite pulling them into a hallway because I just could not loving hit them. Should I just say gently caress casting and throw on the heaviest armor I can for a while since you don't get a useful spell until like lair anyway? what is the magic secret, aside from spamming poison breath on anything tougher than a cockroach

# ? Jun 5, 2017 04:35

neongrey: Feb 28, 2007; Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

Why doesn't gozag have a special max title for felids of "corporate fatcat"? :argh:

I don't want to play it but that's not the point.

# ? Jun 5, 2017 04:38

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Okay so my Mi gets this: w - the +8 executioner's axe of Brutal Revenge {drain, *Rage rElec rPois rF-}.

But I am on a streak and *Rage is just too risky when you can easily win with a +0 battleaxe. But I have some mutation potions so I figure I will eat some ugly things in vaults and maybe with enough mut pots I can manage to get clarity without some game ending mut.

First set of ugly things I kill:

code:

You eat one of the 2 mutagenic chunks of flesh.
 This meat tastes really weird.
_You feel the urge to shout.
 You eat the mutagenic chunk of flesh. This meat tastes really weird.
_Rugged brown scales grow over part of your body.
You eat one of the 2 mutagenic chunks of flesh.
 This meat tastes really weird.
_You feel resistant to heat.
 You eat the mutagenic chunk of flesh. This meat tastes really weird.
_Your thoughts seem clearer.

wow

Araganzar fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jun 5, 2017

# ? Jun 5, 2017 04:56

Ramc: May 4, 2008; Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

Trunko posted:

Haha did they remove the link to Something Awful that was under "discussion" on the Crawl webpage?

haha those cowards

# ? Jun 5, 2017 05:01

redneck nazgul: Apr 25, 2013

I should see if I can get a good amount of 15 rune Vine Stalkers of Gozag going and see if the tavern will delete them.

# ? Jun 5, 2017 06:55

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 01:49

Maxmaps: Oct 21, 2008; Not actually a shark.

Did they change Wyrmbane? I'm at +18 and Bone Dragons aren't getting me to +20. Also, being a formicid of chei, is there even a Bardiche or something that can beat this green stick?

# ? Jun 5, 2017 09:01

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