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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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do people really want to bring up the shoot to kill poo poo again considering an innocent person got shot by police last night?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:17
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Jose posted:do people really want to bring up the shoot to kill poo poo again considering an innocent person got shot by police last night? I mean they did also kill the three non innocent people, so the system works
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Jun 4, 2017 18:18
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Namtab posted:I mean they did also kill the three non innocent people, so the system works Furthermore, UK police doesn't actually have a shoot to kill policy.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:18
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Jose posted:jeffrey epstein's lawyer isn't a fan He does know Sanders is Jewish, right? He doesn't seem like the type to support antisemites for political gain.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:19
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https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/871412395519995905
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Jun 4, 2017 18:20
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Darth Walrus posted:Three guys burst out of a van and started stabbing people. Also, there may have been the more conventional kind of Saturday night stabbing elsewhere in London, which got people confused for a bit. I should probably feel guilty about it, but I am sort of amused by some little south London scrote picking entirely the wrong night to play the big man.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:21
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Nucleic Acids posted:He does know Sanders is Jewish, right? He doesn't seem like the type to support antisemites for political gain. He means critical of Israel.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:23
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Nucleic Acids posted:He does know Sanders is Jewish, right? He doesn't seem like the type to support antisemites for political gain. Sanders regularly got the "self hating jew" treatment.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:24
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I should probably feel guilty about it, but I am sort of amused by some little south London scrote picking entirely the wrong night to play the big man.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:24
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BoneMonkey posted:So a friend of mine has been talking to me about his political beliefs, and I have questioned him down from a Tory to a libdem. the way it's worked historically is there's a system of cooperatives on the firm level. elected decision-making boards composed of workers, managers and government officials handle day-to-day affairs and big company-wide meetings are held on a regular basis for accountability and the airing of grievances and concerns. managers do what managers do under capitalism but don't set their own rates of pay so are generally compensated at a similar level to their "laborer" peers. in lieu of profit making it into the pockets of capitalists, bonuses are shared equally or distributed on merit, depending on what the cooperative decides. on a higher level than that, there's your local government and that's where party politics comes in. your ruling party in a socialist country typically has huge membership, millions and millions of people, who come from everywhere but are mostly workers. you join the party to run for office, to pursue higher education, to generally have a louder voice in the day-to-day workings of the state. local governments do the things local governments do under capitalism and more — mediate conflict, handle housing (free or ridiculously cheap), health care and education, the nuts and bolts of administrating and distributing the material gains that would normally be profit back to the people. this comes in the form of the free stuff we all like, plus subsidized travel, culture, low prices on necessities, etc. you go up a rung higher and you get to national politics (there's provincial level stuff but it's not that interesting), which is where all the scary dictatorship things come in. there's committees and legislative bodies, ministries and bureaus to handle larger-scale affairs of state, macroeconomic plans, foreign policy and so forth. because this is the nerve center there's also a lot of ideological work. this isn't 100 percent universal, since there were and are lots of different approaches and in the 21st century we don't know if socialism has to look exactly like this now. it probably doesn't. there's books about all this, political economies that get into the nitty gritty of how things shook out in the real world under socialism without falling in the easy trap of great man tyrant theory. i can link them if you're interested but they're not short or pithy so if you're interested in articulating it to someone else without boring them to death it'll take some time
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Jun 4, 2017 18:28
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TheRat posted:Furthermore, UK police doesn't actually have a shoot to kill policy. It's so loving irritating because it's not like there's a "shoot to inconvenience" policy they could have instead. If you shoot at someone you're doing it in the knowledge there's a very good chance you're going to kill them (Hollywood wank about shooting the guns out of their hand or whatever aside). Of course both sides have been deliberately conflating "shooting someone who is an active threat to another human being" and "shooting someone because they might, possibly, at some point in the future, be an active threat, or because your surveillance officer went for a piss and wasn't sure who he was" since the eighties because of course it lets you portray the other as bloodthirsty murder machines or limp-wristed bedwetters who are terrified of breaking a nail.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:28
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BoneMonkey posted:So a friend of mine has been talking to me about his political beliefs, and I have questioned him down from a Tory to a libdem. If you want to show someone what a "Corbyn" society would look like, ask them to look up scandinavian countries.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:31
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hot take time: even in the context of norn iron it was really idiotic for the Leader of the Labour Party to criticise shoot-to-kill, or support shoot-to-kill, or take any stance on shoot-to-kill; the only correct answer is to evade the question and yammer on instead on one's righteous belief in the rule of law (are british vawwues) and the right of all british people to due process in a court of law, which should quite suffice as a wink to your supporters on your stance without giving any bullshit soundbites in an answer to what is by construction a bullshit question. that come back to haunt you six months later in a way that is entirely foreseeable you know, and the interviewer knows, that britain has in fact certain obligations on the use of lethal force under the ECHR anyway; you know, and the interviewer knows, that the british people at large don't give a gently caress and want the terrorists dead. there is nothing to be gained in taking the bait. you are not a backbencher any more shut up shut up shut uppppp
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Jun 4, 2017 18:31
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TheRat posted:If you want to show someone what a "Corbyn" society would look like, ask them to look up scandinavian countries. you could also do this since the system i described isn't gonna happen from a fuckin election
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Jun 4, 2017 18:32
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ronya posted:hot take time: even in the context of norn iron it was really idiotic for the Leader of the Labour Party to criticise shoot-to-kill, or support shoot-to-kill, or take any stance on shoot-to-kill; the only correct answer is to evade the question and yammer on instead on one's righteous belief in the rule of law (are british vawwues) and the right of all british people to due process in a court of law, which should quite suffice as a wink to your supporters on your stance without giving any bullshit soundbites in an answer to what is by construction a bullshit question. Every hot take you have about Corbyn seems to boil down to "This principled man who's always stood for what he believed in and been honest about it should flip-flop on what he believes in and lie about it". Its a bold strategy, but I dont see it winning many votes.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:33
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TheRat posted:Every hot take you have about Corbyn seems to boil down to "This principled man who's always stood for what he believed in and been honest about it should flip-flop on what he believes in and lie about it". Its a bold strategy, but I dont see it winning many votes. mr 7/10 "actually, I've never approved of the bombings" can gently caress off about his principles, because if you believe that a london politician, any london politician, has principles then I'm going to sell the actual London Bridge to you what he actually has is bad habits from decades of fresh hot takes for interviewers looking for "but a Labour MP said..." quotes
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Jun 4, 2017 18:36
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TheRat posted:Every hot take you have about Corbyn seems to boil down to "This principled man who's always stood for what he believed in and been honest about it should flip-flop on what he believes in and lie about it". Its a bold strategy, but I dont see it winning many votes. Corbyn wears his principles like a tshirt saying 'I don't want to be prime minister' in big fuckoff letters.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:36
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https://twitter.com/Psythor/status/871416568638570502
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Jun 4, 2017 18:37
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I heard Sweden had been turning into a neoliberal shithole and referring to all Scandinavian countries as equally good examples of social democracy was becoming far less close to reality. As a Norwegian, can you explain exactly how perfidious the Swede really is?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:37
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time and coaching could solve this problem. if you ever think Corbyn is a muppet on TV you should contemplate the days when Labour was led by Michael Foot. but does he have the time?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:39
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Condolences to all you UK goons for the events of last night and also your lovely, awful PM
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Jun 4, 2017 18:40
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ronya posted:mr 7/10 "actually, I've never approved of the bombings" can gently caress off about his principles, because if you believe that a london politician, any london politician, has principles then I'm going to sell the actual London Bridge to you this is one of those times where your entrenched cynicism is raging at the dying of the light rejoice friend, in the love of corbyn ronya posted:time and coaching could solve this problem. if you ever think Corbyn is a muppet on TV you should contemplate the days when Labour was led by Michael Foot. but does he have the time? do you think coaching matters as much as just how uncoachable the PM is? This was always the conservative's election to lose. The idea labour wouldn't get landslided was laughable two months ago. If it's close he's done as well as he could and I can't see how soundbyte control would've helped. It detracts too much from his character to avoid these attacks that aren't having an impact on his popularity Spangly A fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 18:41
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Holy poo poo
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Jun 4, 2017 18:42
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I heard Sweden had been turning into a neoliberal shithole and referring to all Scandinavian countries as equally good examples of social democracy was becoming far less close to reality. As a Norwegian, can you explain exactly how perfidious the Swede really is? Norway and Denmark both have really horrible right wing racist shithead governments at the moment and are going downhill fast. Norway will almost certainly go back to the good side after the election in a few months, but I don't know enough about the other countries to comment. Norway had a bit of a bad neolib period under the last Labour government on account of the PM citing Blair as an inspiration. Fortunately that cock has moved away from the party and is currently in charge of NATO.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:42
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Spangly A posted:Farage is dogwhistling like a madman there but I've read the Pilger article and I definitely have a lot of questions about why the gently caress the bomber managed to dodge arrest and how his involvement in an mi5 affiliated extremist group influenced this The 3,000 number comes from a speech by Dame Eliza Mannigham-Buller when she was leaving the role of Director-General of MI5, and refers to the amount of people who were under active investigation by MI5 (and certainly given in the context of "we need a lot more money to do this" so take it with a pinch of salt). As nobody else has ever volunteered a number that's sort of been settled on since then. The 20k number - for those who have been investigated but are not under active investigation - came from the Met after the Westminster attack, and nobody really knows the provenance of it. The actual number of control orders is much lower, in the dozens rather than the hundreds. (Of course the number that's rarely mentioned is that only about 65% of MI5s counter-terrorism budget is spent on Islamist terrorism, the rest going mostly to NI and of course a small amount assorted nutters at both ends of the political spectrum. Assuming the amount of people under investigation scales with the budget, certain people might be very surprised indeed about who ends up in those camps if they keep throwing around the "lock em all up" rhetoric and MI5 take them literally...)
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Jun 4, 2017 18:45
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Gonzo McFee posted:Holy poo poo Sounds like your leadership is poo poo quote:Farage is dogwhistling like a madman there but I've read the Pilger article and I definitely have a lot of questions about why the gently caress the bomber managed to dodge arrest and how his involvement in an mi5 affiliated extremist group influenced this Calling for concentration camps isn't dogwhistling. It's hate speech. Do you have hate-speech laws in England?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:46
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But you see the communities don't do enough to tackle the problem, furthermore *sound of projectile vomiting*
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Jun 4, 2017 18:47
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Skinty McEdger posted:But you see the communities don't do enough to tackle the problem, furthermore *sound of projectile vomiting* I will say that there's been precious little of that sort of poo poo with the last few attacks, although unfortunately I fear that's because most of the sort of people who say that sort of poo poo have jumped straight to talking about barbed wire and German Shepherds while trying to conceal their erections.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:49
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Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 4, 2017 18:52
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The 3,000 number comes from a speech by Dame Eliza Mannigham-Buller when she was leaving the role of Director-General of MI5, and refers to the amount of people who were under active investigation by MI5 (and certainly given in the context of "we need a lot more money to do this" so take it with a pinch of salt). As nobody else has ever volunteered a number that's sort of been settled on since then. The 20k number - for those who have been investigated but are not under active investigation - came from the Met after the Westminster attack, and nobody really knows the provenance of it. There can't be serious public debate about what the security services and police are doing with the reactionary rhetoric making GBS threads the whole place up, true. But I think it's getting pretty public interest to ask if mi5 have any other radicalised assets laying about that they aren't able to keep check on, especially since their risk assessment appears to still be based in PREVENT and, in action, total shite.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:53
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This is the second time in a month that there's been an attack, May's gone on to say (Or strongly imply) that if they had the right powers they would have had the information and the attacks would have been stopped and then then someone's come forward saying they already told the police the information they needed to stop it. This would be devastating for May if the press ever called her on it.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:54
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spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. are you planning on making a coherent point at some point or
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Jun 4, 2017 18:54
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spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. Just loving say it you coward.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:54
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spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. Maybe you should stick to the Mail and the Express
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Jun 4, 2017 18:55
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spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. we're all pretty mad our PM seems to provide material support for terrorism in exchange for getting a day away from questions on the policies that cause it
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Jun 4, 2017 18:56
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spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. What?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:58
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Angepain posted:are you planning on making a coherent point at some point or He doesn't, of course, have the courage to just come out and say he's terrified of brown people and foreigns. He has to dance around the issue without saying it, so that when you call him out for being a racist piece of poo poo he can go all "heh so much for the tolerant left". Because. He is. A oval office.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:59
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spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. Do you live and work in London? I do. I have to go to work in a public facing role, maybe feeling scared about this. How should I feel, according to you? How scared should I be, according to you? Should I start to hate, according to you? Because I would loving love to hear your loving hot take about this sort of poo poo, I really would. So come on, tell me what I should be feeling.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:00
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i loving hope this happens https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/sta...r%3D953%23pti30
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Jun 4, 2017 19:00
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| # ? May 14, 2024 14:21 |
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Spangly A posted:There can't be serious public debate about what the security services and police are doing with the reactionary rhetoric making GBS threads the whole place up, true. But I think it's getting pretty public interest to ask if mi5 have any other radicalised assets laying about that they aren't able to keep check on, especially since their risk assessment appears to still be based in PREVENT and, in action, total shite. I think a big part of the problem is involving MI5 at all. That so quickly draws a veil over so much information that should be available to inform that debate that really all you've got left is reactionary rhetoric making GBS threads the place up. I sort of understand *why* that role ended up with them and even why it's an advantage in the overall scheme of things but they really need to look at how it can be made more transparent. Gonzo McFee posted:This is the second time in a month that there's been an attack, May's gone on to say (Or strongly imply) that if they had the right powers they would have had the information and the attacks would have been stopped and then then someone's come forward saying they already told the police the information they needed to stop it. Yeah exactly, but at the same time it's really, really hard to do that without it coming across in entirely the wrong way. Had the attacks been six months ago and they pitched it right Labour could be slaughtering the Tories on this right now.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:01
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