UKMT General Elextravaganza 2017: Lord Buckethead would have won

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT General Elextravaganza 2017: Lord Buckethead would have won

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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed.
Labour	907	49.92%
Theresa May Team (Conservative)	48	2.64%
Liberal Democrats	31	1.71%
UKIP	13	0.72%
Plaid Cymru	25	1.38%
Green	22	1.21%
Scottish Socialist Party	12	0.66%
Scottish Conservative Party	1	0.06%
Scottish National Party	59	3.25%
Some Kind of Irish Unionist	4	0.22%
Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian	3	0.17%
Some Kind of Irish Nationalist	36	1.98%
Misc. Far Left Trots	35	1.93%
Misc. Far Right Fash	8	0.44%
Monster Raving Loony	49	2.70%
Space Navies Party	39	2.15%
Independent / Single Issue	2	0.11%
Can't Vote	188	10.35%
Won't Vote	8	0.44%
Spoiled Ballot	15	0.83%
Pissflaps	312	17.17%
Total:	1817 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

thehappyprince: Apr 4, 2006; Alastair Cock

america should've had nukes before 9/11 imo

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:51

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# ? May 14, 2024 21:09

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

i don't think the police are trained to shoot peoples legs because they're a lot easier to miss than the chest

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:52

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Searching twitter for "Corbyn filter:verified" yields some rather strange results every now and then:

https://twitter.com/LunarCFT/status/871439117132976128

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:53

haakman: May 5, 2011

learnincurve posted:

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

They had fake bomb vests on at the time, but I see your general point. I guess the issue is in a high pressure moment there is no such thing as shoot to disable if some fucker is running at you with a knife - I understand the Police specifically have a shoot to incapacitate policy of aiming for the chest i.e the biggest target.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:53

Skinty McEdger: Mar 9, 2008; I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

The tories are getting so worked up about this nuke thing that I haven't entirely written off May nuking someone just to show that she would actually do it.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:53

oxford_town: Aug 6, 2009

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

The in this is that modern terrorists use texts and the internet so much that they no longer need to actually talk to them to get the information they need, and a nice clean execution avoids giving them the publicity of a trial or the possibility that they will continue to operate within prison.

Shooting someone's limbs is harder than hitting their torso, and therefore more likely to result in bystanders being shot.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:54

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

https://twitter.com/ReclaimTheNews/status/871318599415336960

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:55

Snipee: Mar 27, 2010

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/ReclaimTheNews/status/871318599415336960

What the gently caress, SNP. Are the defense industries disproportionately located in the north for some reason?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:56

Barry the Sprout: Jan 12, 2001

Snipee posted:

What the gently caress, SNP. Are the defense industries disproportionately located in the north for some reason?

BAE are all over the North-West.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:57

Skinty McEdger: Mar 9, 2008; I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Snipee posted:

What the gently caress, SNP. Are the defense industries disproportionately located in the north for some reason?

They voted with Corbyn against arms sales.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:57

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

The in this is that modern terrorists use texts and the internet so much that they no longer need to actually talk to them to get the information they need, and a nice clean execution avoids giving them the publicity of a trial or the possibility that they will continue to operate within prison.

If you shoot someone in the leg you still have good odds of killing them and miss more. People shoot centre-mass for a reason. You really can't use guns in a non-lethal way, which is why the suggestion that JC wants some kind of less-lethal shooting to occur is patent nonsense.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:57

biglads: Feb 21, 2007; I could've gone to Blatherwycke

Snipee posted:

What the gently caress, SNP. Are the defense industries disproportionately located in the north for some reason?

It says the SNP were in support of Corbyn's motion doesn't it?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:58

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Skinty McEdger posted:

They voted with Corbyn against arms sales.

yeah 50 SNP Mps would be like all but 6 of them right?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 19:59

thehappyprince: Apr 4, 2006; Alastair Cock

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/ReclaimTheNews/status/871318599415336960

coaliton of chaos there

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:00

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

biglads posted:

It says the SNP were in support of Corbyn's motion doesn't it?

It does, but I did have to re-check in order to see I was reading it right.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:01

Snipee: Mar 27, 2010

Whoops my bad. I thought it said "supported the motion" implying pro-arm sales.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:01

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Skinty McEdger posted:

The tories are getting so worked up about this nuke thing that I haven't entirely written off May nuking someone just to show that she would actually do it.

Some desperate strategist is frantically trying to work out the logistics of getting a nuclear sub up the Thames or a missile put on a flatbed or something so she can salute it as it goes past her.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:02

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

I'd assume this Saudi angle isnt going to get any big media traction at all though? Its very much in "our" vested interest to keep it shtum.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:02

Pochoclo: Feb 4, 2008; No...; Clapping Larry

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

The in this is that modern terrorists use texts and the internet so much that they no longer need to actually talk to them to get the information they need, and a nice clean execution avoids giving them the publicity of a trial or the possibility that they will continue to operate within prison.

"shoot-to-kill" is actually redundant - the first thing they teach you in gun safety is that you never ever ever point a gun at something that you don't want dead, and to always shoot center-mass. There are many reasons for this, but really, shooting someone's knee off only happens in the movies. Guns are for killing, there's no way around it. The only decision to be made in using a gun is whether to use it or not, once you decide to point it at a human, it's to kill that human.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:02

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

The in this is that modern terrorists use texts and the internet so much that they no longer need to actually talk to them to get the information they need, and a nice clean execution avoids giving them the publicity of a trial or the possibility that they will continue to operate within prison.

No police force in the world trains anyone to do this. For good reasons.

The point of force is that it's on a spectrum.

Once you've hit "Use guns" the point is to put the target down quickly and efficiently. In a good system this means the last resort has been reached so the use of lethal force is already warranted.

Problems arise if you're using guns well before they're warranted which is what happens often in America.

There is no level of danger where you'd want to quickly stop someone from doing harm but for some reason trying beyond all expected requirements to keep them alive.

Or to sum it up: People actively in the middle of murdering people need shooting immediately wherever will put them down fast and keep them down. Not the legs.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:02

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

TheRat posted:

Searching twitter for "Corbyn filter:verified" yields some rather strange results every now and then:

https://twitter.com/LunarCFT/status/871439117132976128

I mean, same, but a bit off message I think.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:03

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

JFairfax posted:

new John Pilger piece:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/31/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know/

Uh, this seems huge. If I understand correctly, he's saying that the Manchester bomber was part of a group that Theresa May and her party explicitly cultivated in the UK? Isn't that loving massive?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:05

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

Isn't the alternative to a "shoot to kill" policy a "let the firearms officer make their own decision" policy? Like people are getting bent out of shape because Corbyn favoured the person pulling the trigger to be able to make the decision. Or have I horribly misunderstood?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:05

waffle: May 12, 2001; HEH

I haven't watched anything on TV, was Corbyn's speech covered by the major networks? It seems like a good one, but i don't see a lot of coverage online.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:05

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/ReclaimTheNews/status/871318599415336960

A lot of Labour MPs refused to support it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/27/labour-mps-face-backlash-over-failure-to-vote-on-yemen-campaign

quote:

One Labour MP, who is not supportive of the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, but voted for the motion, said he was frustrated and upset that a number of his colleagues were �using the issue as a way of trying to beat Jeremy�.

�It is such as serious issue and it�s obviously going on the Tory side as well, but there is a massive humanitarian disaster here. It should not be an opportunity to score political points,� he said.

It is understood some Labour MPs who opposed the motion were orchestrating deliberate abstentions and in discussions with some Conservatives about the chances of defeating it.

PLP in being huge shits shocker.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:06

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Is there a video of Corbyn's speech about?

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:06

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

OwlFancier posted:

I mean, same, but a bit off message I think.

I would ask for clarification but I am not sure I want it.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:06

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Pollyanna posted:

Uh, this seems huge. If I understand correctly, he's saying that the Manchester bomber was part of a group that Theresa May and her party explicitly cultivated in the UK? Isn't that loving massive?

no editor in the country will touch it

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:07

Mulaney Power Move: Dec 30, 2004

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody

Yeah they should have just calmly shot out the knee caps like Schwarzenegger in Terminator 2

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:07

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

dispatch_async posted:

A lot of Labour MPs refused to support

A lot of Labour MPs masturbate over a printout of a BAE logo

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:08

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

Thanks Ants posted:

Isn't the alternative to a "shoot to kill" policy a "let the firearms officer make their own decision" policy? Like people are getting bent out of shape because Corbyn favoured the person pulling the trigger to be able to make the decision. Or have I horribly misunderstood?

No - like nukes, this is less about actual policy and more about Looking Tough On Bad Guys.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:09

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

dispatch_async posted:

PLP in being huge shits shocker.

Ah, a good reminder that a Corbyn PMship will probably be a disaster because his own MPs are loving idiots fueled on spite & neoliberalism.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:10

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

The in this is that modern terrorists use texts and the internet so much that they no longer need to actually talk to them to get the information they need, and a nice clean execution avoids giving them the publicity of a trial or the possibility that they will continue to operate within prison.

You shoot at centre body mass. Shooting at arms or legs is much harder, has a much greater chance of missing or the round going straight through and hitting someone behind them, and is still actually fairly likely to kill the person. There are big blood vessels in arms and legs, and if you hit, say, the femoral artery the person's going to be dead before you've had a chance to check they're not still feeling stabby. The very last thing we want is to teach people that you can shoot and not intend to kill someone - that leads to them going Dirty Harry if they just can't be bothered getting out the CS spray.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:11

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Spangly A posted:

no editor in the country will touch it

To be fair the Mail did publish Oborne's article which pointed the finger at MI6: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546934/PETER-OBORNE-MI6-share-blame-jihadis.html

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:13

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

waffle posted:

I haven't watched anything on TV, was Corbyn's speech covered by the major networks? It seems like a good one, but i don't see a lot of coverage online.

He hasn't delivered it yet.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:16

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

dispatch_async posted:

A lot of Labour MPs refused to support it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/27/labour-mps-face-backlash-over-failure-to-vote-on-yemen-campaign

PLP in being huge shits shocker.

My MP said he didn't bother voting for it because he's "too mature for gesture politics", and then blocked everyone who asked him what the point of his existence was if he couldn't be bothered opposing things. If nothing else I will never forgive May for calling this election because the odious little poo poo was going to stand down in 2020 but he decided to stay on, so I've another 2 years of the oval office.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:17

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

dispatch_async posted:

To be fair the Mail did publish Oborne's article which pointed the finger at MI6: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546934/PETER-OBORNE-MI6-share-blame-jihadis.html

yeah they've done a couple stories on it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4540822/Rebels-went-Libya-MI5-blessing-amid-Abedi-probe.html

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:17

The Insect Court: Nov 22, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

orange sky posted:

So where the gently caress does the UK and US think billions and billions of arms sold to SA go? Do they just give missile launchers to every family?

They buy tanks that go to sit in a warehouse out in a desert and rust, and warplanes that actually get used because it's harder to stage a coup with an air force.

Eeyo posted:

The article linked earlier about ISIS is relevant here, I think. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/. ISIS is an apocalyptic cult, and they will act to fulfill their prophecy.

It's not that I disagree with this stance but I do find it an amusing irony that the thread consensus has moved from "It's the fault of our foreign policy, innit?" :jihad:

to "They're apocalyptic genocidal cultists who can't be reasoned with, only destroyed!" :kingsley:

. Doesn't seem as if you can have both be true.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:18

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

Thanks Ants posted:

Isn't the alternative to a "shoot to kill" policy a "let the firearms officer make their own decision" policy? Like people are getting bent out of shape because Corbyn favoured the person pulling the trigger to be able to make the decision. Or have I horribly misunderstood?

The "shoot to kill" policy which Corbyn opposes is not "shoot someone who's wearing a bomb vest/holding a gun/knife and is about to do imminent harm to someone", it's "shoot the people we know/believe/vaguely suspect to be terrorists so that they never get as far as possibly harming someone". Of course, the papers immediately spun it as the first option so they could call him a terrorist sympathiser some more.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:19

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# ? May 14, 2024 21:09

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Here's a (Russia Today) interview with Pilger on the article he wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2Sor7xeR-4

# ? Jun 4, 2017 20:19

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