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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I feel like the madness is a side-effect of resisting the influence, not something that is innate to worshiping/acknowledging the Radiance. There isn't really any evidence that supports the idea that the Radiance is a megalomaniac who demands every being worships her exclusively, she just seems to not want to be locked away and forgotten. We don't really have any evidence of what life was like before the Pale King, but we do know there were civilizations before him, so maybe things weren't that bad and he has just played it up to justify his usurpation of the throne. The Infection seems more like a side of effect of trying to deny that The Radiance exists, and not specifically a malicious act by the Radiance. This is like, a weird level of apologia. Like I can get the idea of unreliable narrators, but at a certain point you have to sort of accept that IN GENERAL, some things people say are VAGUELY accurate, especially without any particular evidence or detailing of some deliberate Great Lie or propaganda effort. This idea that you just go crazy because you don't acknowledge the Radiance, and that the Infection isn't a malicious act, or w/e just ascribes... weird traits to the setting and plot, and sort of removes agency from the Radiance. And this idea that the Pale King is some malevolent tyrant that caged the humble sun-moth is just... not really supported by anything else? If you're going to take a single line from a goofy character like Mister Mushroom and interpret 'thrall' as in literally enslaved, or take the fantasy notion of a king and interpret as a harsh and brutally stratified feudal system where he is crushing the peasant class beneath foot, then I feel like you're kinda of ignoring the overwhelming fondness virtually every single NPC has for the Pale King/the Pale King's era/everything about Hallownest. Also, given that the process of creating void servants and void vessels to contain the Radiance seems like it came after Hallownest was good and properly established, I don't think the binding the Radiance into the Hollow Knight came until after Hallownest was established.
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Jun 2, 2017 06:18
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I'm going through taking screenshots of Dream Nail text from as many enemies as I can. There's a really impressive amount of variety here.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:34
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While I wouldn't call the Pale King a malicious tyrant, he's definitely not a good guy and the events of the game may have been his fault. For one, Hallownest's society was not that great. It had many castes, ranging from incredibly wealthy bugs that did basically nothing to literal slaves that are treated like garbage. The False Knight's entire story is about how he was one of the few creatures legitimately better off under the Radiance. Cause before the Radiance came, his entire species were at best slaves and at worst food. So what did he have to lose under the Radiance? The Radiance gave him the strength to protect his family and also forced those that would normally prey upon them to stand down. Or at least it did up until you came along and killed him. The King also seemed to bury any evidence of civilzations prior to Hallownest. He wanted his civilization to be regarded not as the greatest but as the only true on. Some of the tablets make it sound like Hallownest is the only civilization, but that clearly isn't the case. The King covering up all traces of past societies whenever possible may have been what pissed off the Radiance in the first place, as it was now in danger of being completely forgotten. He had no interest in honoring the past and wanted only his greatness to be revered. The King built a wondrous society, but it was an incredibly egotistical one.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:49
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Internet Kraken posted:The King built a wondrous society, but it was an incredibly egotistical one. But at least he made us pretty. 
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Jun 2, 2017 08:55
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FisheyStix posted:But at least he made us pretty. Seriously, he has good taste in decor. The city of tears is a beautiful place. He needs to watch that saw-blade fixation though. They really ruin the ambiance you know?
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Jun 2, 2017 09:08
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 What are these things, anyway?
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Jun 2, 2017 17:36
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It's a Chozo No idea, some sort of ancient Void-bug maybe? Here's some neat stuff Team Cherry released the other day https://twitter.com/TeamCherryGames/status/870442271807688704 Dunno if I'll get anything but those shirt designs are pretty nice and plush knight is very cute
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Jun 2, 2017 22:26
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skasion posted:
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Jun 2, 2017 22:36
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So the combination of the tablet in the Howling Cliffs that talks about having to give up your mind before being able to leave to the wasteland, and the Mask Maker's dialogue about how the Masks they create overwrites a bug's mind entirely, with only the strongest of wills retaining anything at all, makes me think that the Pale King 'expanded' the bugs minds by masking them, effectively personality deathing everyone in the Kingdom and then keeping everyone locked in by threatening to render them mindless again if they wished to leave.
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Jun 4, 2017 03:33
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Eopia posted:So the combination of the tablet in the Howling Cliffs that talks about having to give up your mind before being able to leave to the wasteland, and the Mask Maker's dialogue about how the Masks they create overwrites a bug's mind entirely, with only the strongest of wills retaining anything at all, makes me think that the Pale King 'expanded' the bugs minds by masking them, effectively personality deathing everyone in the Kingdom and then keeping everyone locked in by threatening to render them mindless again if they wished to leave. That dialogue from the Mask Maker was a metaphor for the Radiance's influence. He mentions it as part of how "the kingdom's stasis became the Wyrm's legacy," i.e. how the King and all his works were ultimately unmade by the resurgence of Radiance and the way it "hides all faces within itself." The King is unambiguously a benevolent character who was driven to desperate ends to escape the infection.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:03
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I don't get how you can play this and not see how the King was a megalomaniac. Even the Mask Maker points out that his reach exceeded his grasp; "I see another takes mantle of king? Then grim responsibility that shall bestow. No bug has ever laid claim to this whole. Even the beasts knew their limits and bound their realm at Nest's edge. It is the ancient caste that made attempt at such vast rule. Hallownest's ruin reflects well those fared attempts." The King created a society that had several tiers of castes where the higher ones lorded over those below, with the royal acolytes and himself at the top. Just because he helped engineer the solution to the Radiance doesn't mean he's unambiguously benevolent. He might have been the one that caused that whole problem in the first place by attempting to remove all traces of its existence. Anyways, has anyone deciphered the nonsensical tablets in the Archives? Those might contain some interesting info but hell if I can figure out that gibberish.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:22
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The king was a megalomaniac insofar as he really was a sorcerous dragon god emperor with incomprehensibly vast powers including something like immortality. Mask Maker's dialogue is abstruse as gently caress even by this game's standards and I don't see how it really tells us anything more than that the society of Hallownest benefited some much more than others.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:39
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skasion posted:The king was a megalomaniac insofar as he really was a sorcerous dragon god emperor with incomprehensibly vast powers including something like immortality. Mask Maker's dialogue is abstruse as gently caress even by this game's standards and I don't see how it really tells us anything more than that the society of Hallownest benefited some much more than others. Yeah, Kraken's quoted dialogue mentions "caste" in the context of age, not class - i.e. the King and his private retinue were the only ones who tried to lay dominion to the whole of Hallownest and it blew up in their face (and that the Grey Wastes are an absolute border to the kingdom itself, which is probably the reason for all the warning signs). The only mention we get of a hard caste system comes from the maggots. Everything else suggests it was an enlightened, egalitarian place - the only one who repeatedly condemns it is the Hunter, and that's because they think the citizenry all became soft and indolent due to the embrace of civilization. Even the stag beetle preferred it to being under Radiance's heel, and he literally existed as transportation.
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Jun 4, 2017 04:46
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The glowing tablets appear to specifically be for void beings created by Wyrm, which were the people whose minds were created by the mask maker. "ancient caste" might actually refer to the Void civ, who seem to have once occupied the entire playable area.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 05:26
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I would not call a civilization that has a literal slave caste and a bunch of nobles that do nothing but lord over those that have less money than them "enlightened". It looks good because the only thing we have to compare it too is a bunch of light drunk zombies stumbling around. EDIT: Well actually you can compare it to the Mantis Tribe as well, but a murderous matriarchy isn't exactly great either. Anyways I don't think the King is evil or anything but I don't think the game paints him as a totally good person either. I think finding him as a corpse in a desolate palace filled with nothing but guards, traps, and sycophants is really supposed to show the extent of how far he fell. skasion posted:The king was a megalomaniac insofar as he really was a sorcerous dragon god emperor with incomprehensibly vast powers including something like immortality. Mask Maker's dialogue is abstruse as gently caress even by this game's standards and I don't see how it really tells us anything more than that the society of Hallownest benefited some much more than others. Just because he's the reincarnation of a pseudo-deity doesn't mean he can't be egotistical. A god like being that is undone by their own ego isn't exactly an uncommon story. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 06:07
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One thing to note about the King is that in the fungal wastes There's one mushroom in the core that thinks about something along the lines 'What use is there in begin able to see a demise you cannot prevent?', as Wyrms can see the future, so did the King know that the infection would occur before it ever began?
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Jun 4, 2017 06:20
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The Radiance Did Nothing Wrong
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Jun 4, 2017 11:57
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:The Radiance Did Nothing Wrong We must secure the existence of our light and a future for moth larvae
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Jun 4, 2017 12:25
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This game is so marred by having White Palace included in it.
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Jun 4, 2017 12:46
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:This game is so marred by having White Palace included in it. Eh, It's optional and I think it's a nice challenge for most people. I think the worst part is having to do a few parts over if you mess up too much. Maybe they could have been more generous with the benches. But barring that, if you have hiveblood then it becomes: Okay how do I get through this challenge? Then this challenge? and you never really have to worry about back tracking to do parts you already did if you die. It makes you think and adjust how you move in ways no other area does and is a fine end game test. That plus the dream bosses are pretty good prep for the final boss. If you struggle with both of those, chances are you are not going to have fun with the true final boss at all anyways. I'm pretty certain it takes longer for most people to beat the final boss than it does to get through the white palace. The final boss is certainly far more punishing on mistakes. I think if it were me, the one thing I'd do is mute the saw blades. The music there is awesome and the sound of them just gets in the way of it. And it's not like you get no prep for it. If you've been doing the optional content there's plenty of dicey platforming parts that are good practice. Getting to that one nail master where you have to do the downslash hopping, that one fricken grub in Queen's Garden You know the one. Etc.
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Jun 4, 2017 13:06
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You don't need to listen to the saw blades, just turn the sound effect volume down. I still would have preferred something other than saw blades (why not like, a weaponized version of the motes that are floating around all the dreams) but eh.
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Jun 4, 2017 13:24
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:This game is so marred by having White Palace included in it. It is good actually
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Jun 4, 2017 14:47
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I hated White Palace until I equipped Hiveblood. I suck at those type of platforming sections but having Hiveblood is unlimited retries so I was able to get through it. Still couldn't beat The Radiance but getting through White Palace was pretty rewarding even if Hiveblood eliminated the difficulty of having to do it all in a single life bar.
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Jun 4, 2017 15:13
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PaybackJack posted:I hated White Palace until I equipped Hiveblood. I suck at those type of platforming sections but having Hiveblood is unlimited retries so I was able to get through it. Still couldn't beat The Radiance but getting through White Palace was pretty rewarding even if Hiveblood eliminated the difficulty of having to do it all in a single life bar. I don't know if you are still trying but if it helps I think the secret to The Radiance is just learning when it's safe to hit her or when you have to spend 100% of the time avoiding attacks. For me the worst two attacks were the homing orbs, and the horizontal swords. The others were usually easy to get a lot of damage off on the boss while also dodging. Also what helped me, is I learned the fight with Grubberfly Elegy, Quick Slash, and the +2 Lifeblood charm (+3 is good if you have it but don't use Joni's) as grubberfly will last for two hits instead of one with that. Once I learned the fight well enough that my performance was more or less consistent, I swapped Lifeblood for Fragile Strength to make the phases shorter. The trip back to the merchant isn't that long and you can always just return to title screen right before dying if you don't want to worry about the charm breaking. I'm not great at platforming but this worked well enough for me. Some people had some success just using Lifeblood charms + that spell damage charm and spamming Abyss Shriek. So that's worth trying too if you don't like the above.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:58
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JuniperCake posted:I don't know if you are still trying but if it helps I never got the timing on the horizontal swords. By the 20th try I'd gotten to the second part of the battle a couple times but having to replay the hollow knight fight everytime was just so taxing. I eventually got to the final segment and jumped into a lightblast and died right before I reached him. I had already seen the ending after that so I just said gently caress it and called it a day. I'm not a competitionist so I don't have a problem not beating it properly. I did everything except the carry the flower(?) without getting hit quest so that's good enough. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 20:45
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The flower carrying quest isn't that hard. At first glance it looks like you're carrying poo poo all the way across the loving world through a gauntlet, but in practice if you start from the Traitor's Grave and clear out the enemies on the way to the Gray Mansion, almost nothing dangerous respawns. The biggest headache is not bumping into the little jellyfish in Fog Canyon.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:07
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skasion posted:The flower carrying quest isn't that hard. At first glance it looks like you're carrying poo poo all the way across the loving world through a gauntlet, but in practice if you start from the Traitor's Grave and clear out the enemies on the way to the Gray Mansion, almost nothing dangerous respawns. The biggest headache is not bumping into the little jellyfish in Fog Canyon. Pff! What kind of coward clears out enemies ahead of time! Shame! (and the IMO trickiest bit, though it's short, is the two tiny jumps just at the end of it. Can't clear those out)
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Jun 5, 2017 00:17
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Dont go through fog canyon I just went through Resting Grounds, Crossroads, Greenpath, Garden edit: For the last boss, I just went Joni's, Lifeblood core, Fragile Strength. I don't like using spells so I didn't do the shaman stone/abyss shriek thing. You have so much life you can just get in Hollow KNight's grill and chop him up and you'll get to the end of the fight before you run out of life probably. Your life refills for Radiance. And on Radiance, the other guy was right, the fight is just focus on dodging, and don't be greedy with trying to get damage in unless it's safe. Ambivalent fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 02:14
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Just did my first Arena fight. Beating Zote's rear end felt so good.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:10
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I'd love some additional, harder arena fights.
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Jun 6, 2017 02:58
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VolticSurge posted:Just did my first Arena fight. Beating Zote's rear end felt so good.  Discendo Vox posted:I'd love some additional, harder arena fights. Same, though with how nasty the last one gets I'm kind of afraid of them making even harder ones. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 08:53
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http://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=367520 First new content pack is two new bosses and songs, an extra stag station, and whatever dream gate is. It sounds like maybe you can place two teleport ports or something
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Jun 7, 2017 23:13
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So It Goes posted:http://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=367520 Yeah sounds like a Recall Portal, which would be nice. Unfortunately I'm going to have beaten the game by the time this comes out. I do wish there were a lot more Stag stations, or slightly better Fast Travel. While I'm glad I can't instantly go any room I want to, I've seen the same room dozens of times with different backtracking and "wait did I go over there, and was there something I couldn't reach before but now I can with double jump?? ok let me run back ahh gently caress I forgot that annoying spike-bouncing precise wall jumping room  " It's also annoying a little annoying that Crossroads gets all gummed up and pathways that used to work (i.e. dropping down to go to the Charm seller bug) require you to go all the way around now 
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Jun 7, 2017 23:18
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Not too subtle with who these are, eh? Dream Defender and dream Zote
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Jun 7, 2017 23:28
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I'm excited I really hope they sneak another White Palace-style platforming area into one of these dlc packs, wanna do some more good jumps
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Jun 7, 2017 23:30
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I'm really hyped that they're actually continuing to add to this game but I have to say I'm hoping for a few wholly new boss designs at some point and not just dream versions of stuff we've already seen. Or at least they could touch up bosses that are kind of underwhelming in the main game like Nosk or the big dumb jellyfish rather than bosses that are already cool and good. I guess dream Zote would have to be pretty original of necessity. Unless the "fight" is just you playing astral pinball with his limp, pathetic spirit.
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Jun 8, 2017 00:08
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The jellyfish fight is great because of the way it's staged. One of the best moments in the game imo. Nosk definitely is missing an attack to go with his running back and forth, makes him feel like a mini boss I imagine dung defender you will dream nail whiles he's sleeping in his room. No idea what zotes set up will be. Or what the rewards for the fights will be. I guess one will be the dream gate
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Jun 8, 2017 00:11
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Nosk really confuses me. There's a whole bunch of effort put into setting it up but then the fight itself is really easy and underwhelming. Terrifying apex predator of the darkness that just runs back and forth like an excited dog. Honestly, I'd love dream versions of more of the bosses just to see what they would be like as a difficult fight. I assume Hornet's DLC will have more wholly original bosses but if they wanna add more dream fights to the main game I'm totally down with that. Like one where you fight all 4 Mantis Lords at the same time.
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Jun 8, 2017 00:23
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Internet Kraken posted:Nosk really confuses me. There's a whole bunch of effort put into setting it up but then the fight itself is really easy and underwhelming. Terrifying apex predator of the darkness that just runs back and forth like an excited dog.  Dream Mantis Lords is something I've wanted since finding out about the Dream Boss thing
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Jun 8, 2017 00:25
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skasion posted:I'm really hyped that they're actually continuing to add to this game but I have to say I'm hoping for a few wholly new boss designs at some point and not just dream versions of stuff we've already seen. Or at least they could touch up bosses that are kind of underwhelming in the main game like Nosk or the big dumb jellyfish rather than bosses that are already cool and good. I guess dream Zote would have to be pretty original of necessity. Unless the "fight" is just you playing astral pinball with his limp, pathetic spirit. given the angle of the sword he's holding and the shoulders, I think we're in for Giant Grimdark Beefcake Zote, who might be in Bretta's dream instead of his own.
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Jun 8, 2017 00:45
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