|
the diplo thing is awful though
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 19:48 |
|
|
The only thing I've noticed is that Tabarestan is super luck based now because for some reason they're super intent on making that start more annoying. Removing combat width penalty in mountains was bad enough since you can't outplay the Hordes around you anymore but for some reason QQ starts as Hostile or Domineering now so you can't even vassalize/annex Shirvan or Ghazi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
Koramei posted:A lot of people itt have been saying basically exactly this. Can you enumerate them? IIRC I think there were two posters in the past week taking that stance, far from a majority. Most posters have been pointing out that tributary range is too far and that the Mandate mechanic doesn't seem to achieve its goals, since taking the mandate often has the opposite of the expected effect
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:28
|
|
|
Koramei posted:That's only an issue for like 2 countries really though, and when the Russians expanded east historically, they did have to contend with China. It's the one instance of far-flung tributaries that actually makes at least some sense. Actually you've been saying that the tributary range is fine and that Ming marching armies through Eastern Europe (which is apparently a problem for just 2 countries) is fine. If you now agree that tributary range is excessive then I think we're on the same page
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Bit dumb to want everyone to stop discussing how broken something is while simultaneously declaring that it's broken enough to bitch about. Yeah I couldn't quite understand that post at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
Did Paradox stop doing patch open betas? I definitely remember playing a couple of those. Honestly I think they could use more playtesting for their major patches. I don't think Ming makes the game unplayable or anything and really only is a big deal if you're playing in Asia. The tributary range needs tweaked and there aren't really any mechanisms for an AI nation to beat them, it takes a player with specific tactics to break their power.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
I think they've just been in a weird dev schedule the past few months. I think Johan said he was working on 1.22 while 1.20 and 1.21 were still being developed, and it's all so close together that they haven't had time for the beta schedule like they normally do.QuarkJets posted:Actually you've been saying that the tributary range is fine and that Ming marching armies through Eastern Europe (which is apparently a problem for just 2 countries) is fine. If you now agree that tributary range is excessive then I think we're on the same page literally my first post on this issue: Koramei posted:The China changes would be really good if they just limited the range on tributaries and made it so you taking the Mandate in a war was genuinely crippling to Ming. Even as-is things are better over in East Asia than they were when China exploded and never reunified every game, the big problem is just if you're in India or something. Hopefully it'll get some proper attention soon but it's really not as much of a mess as people are making it out to be. and i've repeated something to that effect nearly every time i've mentioned it since. if you got the impression i said the opposite then i guess i wasn't clear enough, the tributary range is the one part of the expansion i actually think is "game breaking".
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:51
|
|
|
Oh sorry I didn't remember that post from two weeks ago, I was talking about the more recent discussion where you said that you only need to worry about Ming tributaries if you're playing in India
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 23:01
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Yeah, I agree the Mandate mechanic is completely non functional right now in terms of actually reining in the Ming. The tributaries ending up going all the way to Baluchistan and next to the Caspian is clearly broken too. But unless you're playing in India those aren't game-breaking issues, and the expansion livens things up in East Asia a whole lot. this is getting really petty dude.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
What is the Diplo bug mentioned a few posts ago?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:What is the Diplo bug mentioned a few posts ago? The AI usually gets a free diplo slot to use specifically for the player, to stop you from getting locked out of any alliances just because you don't have the reaction speeds of a literal robot. They removed this in 1.22
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
This feels great after that rough start.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
AnoHito posted:The AI usually gets a free diplo slot to use specifically for the player, to stop you from getting locked out of any alliances just because you don't have the reaction speeds of a literal robot. They removed this in 1.22 I'm reluctant to play again until this is fixed. It's just terrible for any game where you need good alliances to get started.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 06:07
|
|
|
Mr. Fowl posted:I'm reluctant to play again until this is fixed. It's just terrible for any game where you need good alliances to get started. Just revert to 1.20.1. You don't miss out on much unless you really like Hungary or want to form Great Yuan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 06:27
|
|
|
So I'm not quite sure what to do now that I've become the Qing and taken the Mandate of Heaven from the Ming. I've only got one siberian nation as a tributary so my mandate is draining rapidly, and I've got a looming disaster for not accepting enough chinese culture groups. My plan is to attack Korea so I can go back to war with Ming and get around the really long truce I just signed with them. Should I be trying to take as much land as possible from them in this coming war or canceling their tributaries so that I could get them? Year is 1517 if that matters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 06:32
|
|
|
The culture group disaster is really simple to get out of, you should prioritize taking land that'll let you do that over anything else I think. Beating up Ming more shoould make them lose their tributaries too right? I think they changed that in 1.21 so it's more likely. I was gonna say directly cancelling the tributaries will be way too inefficient with warscore, but if you're still in the first age it might be worth going for the halved subject transfer bonus thing and seeing if that helps you do that any.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 06:37
|
|
|
Koramei posted:this is getting really petty dude. my contention is that it is game-breaking to have Ming tributaries that far west; when you suddenly can't attack Persia because they're a Ming tributary for some reason, that's game-breaking. In that quote you seem to be saying that it sucks but doesn't really matter not trying to be petty here, just disagreeing with something that you seem to have said (that Ming tributaries don't matter if you're further west than India)
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 06:45
|
|
|
Mr. Fowl posted:I'm reluctant to play again until this is fixed. It's just terrible for any game where you need good alliances to get started. Just play on very hard for awhile and you will forget that alliances were even possible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 08:17
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:my contention is that it is game-breaking to have Ming tributaries that far west; when you suddenly can't attack Persia because they're a Ming tributary for some reason, that's game-breaking. In that quote you seem to be saying that it sucks but doesn't really matter Uh, I read Koramei saying the exact opposite: That things start being a problem if you're playing in India and further west. So from my perspective, you two are vehemently and increasingly aggressively agreeing with each other. It's kinda weird. I don't think there's anyone itt who would argue that the sheer range of power projecting which bog-standard Ming has is unproblematic. It'd be one thing if Ming had tributaries on the Caspian because they'd been expanding westward like OTL Qing, but when they just stay put and get involved in wars which ought to be bumfuck nowhere from their perspective? That's problematic. At least other great powers are somewhat more selective about which wars they get pulled into, even if they're harder to appease than Ming is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
iirc if you plop your capital on an island you can ignore penalties for not having enough tributaries bordering you for whatever reason
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
Of course; you've set up your capital so that there are no land routes to any non-tributaries (if the tributary check also included sea connections then you'd have a huge number of non-tributary "neighbors" for simply having a coastal connection to your capital)
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 09:14
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Of course; you've set up your capital so that there are no land routes to any non-tributaries (if the tributary check also included sea connections then you'd have a huge number of non-tributary "neighbors" for simply having a coastal connection to your capital) "emperor our people don't believe your reign is divinely approved, whatever shall we do?" "gently caress this poo poo let's move the whole court to the Kurils, that'll show them"
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 09:23
|
|
|
It's actually just an incredible troll by Paradox by having the ideal capital for all Chinese empires be situated in Taiwan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
Eej posted:The only thing I've noticed is that Tabarestan is super luck based now because for some reason they're super intent on making that start more annoying. Removing combat width penalty in mountains was bad enough since you can't outplay the Hordes around you anymore but for some reason QQ starts as Hostile or Domineering now so you can't even vassalize/annex Shirvan or Ghazi. If they're domineering they will let you voluntarily become their tributary which gives you military access. I had an amazing Tabarestan start recently which got hosed because the Timurid AI had a single fort province that had been taken by Persian rebels, stuck a stack of 3 infantry on it, and then ignored it until they revolted away (I think they were shadowing some tribal rebels with their main army but this is still incredibly dumb behaviour). This was in the mid 1450s, really significantly earlier than it usually happens 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 09:38
|
|
|
Eej posted:It's actually just an incredible troll by Paradox by having the ideal capital for all Chinese empires be situated in Taiwan. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 10:33
|
|
|
Ignorant Hick posted:So I'm not quite sure what to do now that I've become the Qing and taken the Mandate of Heaven from the Ming. I've only got one siberian nation as a tributary so my mandate is draining rapidly, and I've got a looming disaster for not accepting enough chinese culture groups. My plan is to attack Korea so I can go back to war with Ming and get around the really long truce I just signed with them. Should I be trying to take as much land as possible from them in this coming war or canceling their tributaries so that I could get them? Year is 1517 if that matters. You're kinda hosed in terms of Mandate score, you took the Mandate super early and having a big Ming neighboring you will tank your score. Mandate only checks nations with a land route to your capital. Move your capital to an island. Can you take Jeju from Korea and move your capital there, or Taiwan or Ryukyu? That's about your only option.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 11:55
|
|
|
Why does Ming keep all its tributaries after I steal the Mandate from them in the first place? I've shown I am stronger than them, they should all tell Ming to gently caress off and be independent again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 12:18
|
|
|
Yeah, I guess I could take Korea's island for my capital so I shouldn't be screwed. Does the mandate disappear if Ming self destructs before anyone takes it from them? They were already starting to have rebel trouble as I was wrapping up the last war so I thought it would be a good idea to get the mandate from them then. I've taken most of the Shanxi area and a good strip of their coast from the required Qing lands down to Shanghai.
Ignorant Hick fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jun 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 12:23
|
|
|
Has anyone been playing the new MEIOU & Taxes beta? Is there an easy way to learn it? I put in a couple hours into it yesterday and feel like I understand some of the basics, but I learned CK2, EU3, and V2 with Goon LPs back in the day. Is there anything similar for the new MEIOU?
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 12:26
|
|
|
Jackson Taus posted:Has anyone been playing the new MEIOU & Taxes beta? Is there an easy way to learn it? I put in a couple hours into it yesterday and feel like I understand some of the basics, but I learned CK2, EU3, and V2 with Goon LPs back in the day. Is there anything similar for the new MEIOU? Arumba has an ongoing game for it, and one of the developers (Damien) has a (sadly a bit outdated) showcase of it. Both can be found on Youtube. Don't think there's any goon LP's, sadly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 12:38
|
|
|
You know that tributaries are hosed when I can start as Oman and immediately become a tributary. Bang I am immediately immune from attack and can happily rampage about unmolested. When I'm sufficiently big enough just stop paying Ming cos they ain't gonna do poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 13:46
|
|
|
Tullius posted:You know that tributaries are hosed when I can start as Oman and immediately become a tributary. edit: Speaking of that, the description for "Jihad" is not very specific and the wiki is also kinda vague - can subjects own some of these Sunni provinces? "As Najd, own 500 Sunni provinces." / "Own 500 provinces with Sunni religion" AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jun 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is what I did to get the Straight Talk achievement as Hormuz. No one touched me all game, I just rampaged about the middle east at will until I had all the required ideas and policies unlocked. I had thought about forming Arabia but the Ottomans were super swole so I decided to wait and I figure I can do that when I do the achievement as Najd or something (where I will also chose to become a Tributary of Ming until I am tired of paying or am sufficiently strong enough). From what I remember subjects don't count. U gotta own them directly. Also does anyone have any tips for Raja of the Rajput Reich? I tried it a few versions ago and could never get going. Tullius fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jun 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
Tullius posted:From what I remember subjects don't count. U gotta own them directly. Tullius posted:Also does anyone have any tips for Raja of the Rajput Reich? I tried it a few versions ago and could never get going. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jun 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
Tullius posted:From what I remember subjects don't count. U gotta own them directly. FlorryWorry did a stream on it a while ago using his standard tactics: loans, mercs, keep the coalition in check by eliminating opponents of a single religion first. From India jump to Africa, then Mamluks, then Venice through Cyprus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 15:54
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Wafflecopter was posting about it on page 663. Said he got started by building over forcelimits and grabbing some territory as an ally in a war, I think? My run ended in failure but getting off the ground is pretty much the same as any small start. Go over forcelimit, eat a smaller neighbour, find allies, promise them land to help you eat a bigger neighbour, be an opportunist and grab land from other neighbours while they're at war, etc
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
Wafflecopper posted:My run ended in failure but getting off the ground is pretty much the same as any small start. Go over forcelimit, eat a smaller neighbour, find allies, promise them land to help you eat a bigger neighbour, be an opportunist and grab land from other neighbours while they're at war, etc
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
I'll give it another try from the start some time
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
Since the maximum anti-privateer rating seems to be limited to 99%, does that mean a nation like Portugal is never going to be able to experience prosperity in its home states since the Berbers can inflict a single point of devastation and ruin everything with a raid?
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 16:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 19:48 |
|
|
toasterwarrior posted:Since the maximum anti-privateer rating seems to be limited to 99%, does that mean a nation like Portugal is never going to be able to experience prosperity in its home states since the Berbers can inflict a single point of devastation and ruin everything with a raid? At least until Portugal conquers their coasts
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 16:58
|
|
