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Man the product placement for goat and pigeon was way overdone
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Jun 5, 2017 05:06
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*sad music plays as show comes to an end* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x222NRwt4A Gonz fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 05:12
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Ausmund posted:I suspect "so the 2% were in a parallel universe" will be the new "so they were dead the whole time" Well, "they were dead the whole time" is explicitly incorrect whereas this ending is deliberately ambiguous and has no correct answer, so not really.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:21
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The other world sounds so desolate and the only show on TV is Perfect Strangers.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:22
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Reading Lindelof's interview with Sepinwall, it seems like the writers initially planned to show everything in Nora's story, so they assumed it was the truth. Then Perotta was like, "No, we need to just have her tell that story so the audience can decide whether or not she's lying." Lindelof does not want to get the ambiguity blame again.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:32
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I think it could have been cool if they showed flashes during her story like they did or her kids when she was getting into the machine.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:35
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:')
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Jun 5, 2017 05:38
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I really liked that ending. What a great show
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Jun 5, 2017 05:40
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Not seeing anything in her story made the whole episode for me.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:13
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Lord Krangdar posted:Not seeing anything in her story made the whole episode for me. They do that a lot in this show, it breaks the rules of storytelling on screen when you are supposed to show and not tell, and it works perfectly. Awesome ending to an awesome show.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:15
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I cried a bunch
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Jun 5, 2017 06:22
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qbert posted:Reading Lindelof's interview with Sepinwall, it seems like the writers initially planned to show everything in Nora's story, so they assumed it was the truth. Good, because that story is incredibly hackneyed. The whole "character finds his long-lost love, sees she's moved on and are happy, and decides to leave" trope has been a well-worn one since at least Casablanca. As endings go, showing it to the audience rather than having it just be a questionable recounting by Norah would have been a Scooby Doo "Looks like the departure was just a parallel universe in a rubber mask all along" level bad ending.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:30
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Josh Lyman posted:I think it could have been cool if they showed flashes during her story like they did or her kids when she was getting into the machine. That was some fantastic editing.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:37
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I think she made it up. It made a better story. It allows her to bring Kevin back into her life.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:38
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Niwrad posted:I think she made it up. It made a better story. It allows her to bring Kevin back into her life. I don't think she did, but I really think it could go either way and both interpretations work fantastically. Super impressed by this episode.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:42
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Last Chance posted:I don't think she did, but I really think it could go either way and both interpretations work fantastically. Super impressed by this episode. Yeah, while I was watching I didn't think for a second that she was lying about what happened. Then after it was over I thought about it and her making everything up would make equal sense and not be a copout at all. God drat, this was a good show.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:49
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I think Nora's story was literally false but emotionally honest. I think she did realize-- without needing to actually go through-- that if the departed went anywhere habitable, then her family would be as she described, a lucky outlier among an "orphaned" population. Even if the departed literally warped into heaven, that would still be true. Whether she went through the machine or not, the only thing about the story that changes is when the realization hit her.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:57
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I thought the whole episode was about telling stories. Heck the whole season was about that. Putting a message of love to a pigeon thinking it'll travel around the globe into someone's hands. Hanging your sins on a goat that will take them away. Kevin pretending she was just a crush he randomly ran across on a vacation. They're just stories told because they are nicer than reality. That was Nora's story. It's not real but it makes her and the person she cares about feel better.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:07
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Supercar Gautier posted:I think Nora's story was literally false but emotionally honest. Also the version she told gives her a more palatable excuse why she didn't ever try to reunite with Kevin, or go to Matt's funeral, and so on. "It's just nicer," like the nun says. Kevin's lie earlier in the episode was like trying to erase the past, but her (possible) lie is a better one to rekindle their relationship around because its at least emotionally honest, like you said. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 07:12
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Also can someone please give Carrie Coon an Emmy already. She was in every scene of that episode and just brilliant.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:20
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I'm just reading this Sepinwall interview with Lindelof and one of the hints he gives made me realize the proper answer, for those scientists, to the question about killing a baby to cure cancer was "Who gives a poo poo? I want to depart this world already!".
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Jun 5, 2017 07:23
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Nora didn't lie. Given the time jump, her characterization, what we know of her family, her rejection to Kevin's semi-plausible lies, even after that loving dance? Nah. I mean ,think of the odds. Of all of these who may have crossed over, she's top 10 for send me the *gently caress* back.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:31
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My only gripe is Laurie still being alive. The suicide was kind of a perfect tragic farewell for her. Now just comes across as a big fake-out.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:39
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Thinking about the "netsplit" version of the departure Nora gives in this episode, I think it's definitely the version of events that would give people in-universe the most consolation. The best possible thing that could have happened to the departed, the rapture where they go to heaven, would fill people with envy and dissatisfaction. That's what drove Mark Linn-Baker; his colleagues got to be in on something mysterious and fascinating, and he got left out. The worst possible thing that could happen to them, getting warped out into space and dying in agony, would be underwhelming and heartbreaking. Something massively mysterious happened, and all it did was instakill a hell of a lot of people. Reality splitting into two kind of strikes a happy medium: the departed aren't in on some big secret, they're just as confused, they're worse off in some respects, but have plentiful resources and a shot at being okay. The fact that it's such a happy medium could of course be taken as an especially strong sign that Nora made it up.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:47
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qbert posted:Reading Lindelof's interview with Sepinwall, it seems like the writers initially planned to show everything in Nora's story, so they assumed it was the truth. Yeah, that interview definitely gives me the impression that a good deal of this season was written with some version of Nora's story being "true." I like the ambiguity, though, and in general it feels like the decision to just have her recount her story to Kevin was the right way to go. I do think you guys that are convincing yourselves that it's definitely a lie might be reading too much into things. It's clearly intended to just be ambiguous rather than something that can be sussed out from themes in the episode. That said, I kind of wish they didn't go down this path at all because any kind of reachable destination for the departures just... doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why wouldn't you just send through the resources and people needed to build a return machine? If the original scientist could build one for Nora, why wouldn't he send at least one more person back? Nora's story doesn't make logical sense, but it feels like these aren't the kind of holes that I'm supposed to be poking in it. I love this show and I'm happy with this ending, but I think the need to be ambiguous is probably its biggest and most consistent weakness, final scene included.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:53
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While Nora was explaining where she went I thought that her performance was actually lacking a bit; Carrie Coon's body language and eye contact in the scene is of someone who is lying. I didn't even put two and two together to think that Nora WAS lying and that the acting made sense in that way. We're going to need to watch that again.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:56
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Agronox posted:While Nora was explaining where she went I thought that her performance was actually lacking a bit; Carrie Coon's body language and eye contact in the scene is of someone who is lying. She says in this interview that she plays the role a certain way but isn't going to say which one it is. That leads credence to it being a lie if you thought it sounded like someone lying. http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/the-leftovers-finale-carrie-coon-recap-interview/ quote:But I assume you played it one way.
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Jun 5, 2017 08:01
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Agronox posted:While Nora was explaining where she went I thought that her performance was actually lacking a bit; Carrie Coon's body language and eye contact in the scene is of someone who is lying. Just took a quick look at the scene and yeah, she keeps looking away as if she needs to think up the next bit of the story. Lindelof said he never directly told her or the director how to play the scene, though. Paradoxish posted:That said, I kind of wish they didn't go down this path at all because any kind of reachable destination for the departures just... doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why wouldn't you just send through the resources and people needed to build a return machine? If the original scientist could build one for Nora, why wouldn't he send at least one more person back? Nora's story doesn't make logical sense, but it feels like these aren't the kind of holes that I'm supposed to be poking in it. I love this show and I'm happy with this ending, but I think the need to be ambiguous is probably its biggest and most consistent weakness, final scene included. For what its worth Lindelof mentioned how ridiculous those elements were in one of his post-finale interviews. Without confirming or denying if it was a lie. Glad to see she explains why Old Nora looks like she has a black eye. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 08:03
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Is it confirmed that Laurie didn't die? Because the entire last scene I was expecting Kevin to say something like "but Laurie is dead, she's not alive, and you couldn't have talked to her, but you did because you're dead, and I'm immortal and can come and go." But I'm not a writer.
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Jun 5, 2017 08:31
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^^^Which is also a perfectly valid interpretation of the ending if you don't want it spelled out. I'm satisfied with the ending and the focus on the two main characters. What's kind of great/sad/funny now is that if Nora was telling the truth about what happened, the Guilty Remnant were always all just a bunch of dicks. Also I rewatched the machine scene, and just as the water reaches her face, Nora whispers "yes", not "stop", so her story could be just as plausible. Niwrad posted:Also can someone please give Carrie Coon an Emmy already. She was in every scene of that episode and just brilliant.
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Jun 5, 2017 09:11
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I think that last episode was a great episode, and I think it ending with her story was really cool and probably the best way to end the show. However, parts of me still feel weirdly unsatisfied. I think part of me is bummed the finale was JUST Nora and Kevin- not the bigger picture, as others have said. I love stuff that lets you decide what it is or isn't - was he in the afterlife? Was she lying about going through the machine? However, I feel like there were still bigger, more grand scale bizarre things that kinda don't fit within that. I think I'm still stuck on why Kevin couldn't die- you could argue "well maybe it was luck or just something he told himself." But like... then what were the giant earthquakes he caused when he rose from a grave? When he tried to die in a river? The one that woke up Mary from her coma or whatever? These all felt like things that were really happening and not some kind of "maybe it's nothing" possibility. I was never expecting answers to why the departed left- or even real answers to the things I just mentioned. I guess to me, they just seemed like weird things to -drop completely- and never get into again. "Let the mystery be" is fine, but to never even address or investigate these insanely bizarre events just feels kinda disappointing to me.
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Jun 5, 2017 09:58
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If she was lying, and I think she was, this makes me feel so bad for Kevin. Sure she loves and misses him, but she still put him through hell for over a decade and all while talking to Laurie every few months. It seems so cruel that their happy ending didn't quite work for me.
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Jun 5, 2017 10:17
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Was a good ending, I like how like the departure itself sort of sets up a trap. Wether you want to think the worst, or accept a possible solution from a potentially unreliable source. I don't know even know where I lie myself, I am just sort of taking it all in.
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Jun 5, 2017 10:47
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Lilikoi posted:If she was lying, and I think she was, this makes me feel so bad for Kevin. Sure she loves and misses him, but she still put him through hell for over a decade and all while talking to Laurie every few months. It seems so cruel that their happy ending didn't quite work for me. Yeah, this final season basically ruined the character of Nora for me, which ruined so much else about this season as so much of it was devoted to her and the "love" story that she wasn't interested in even being a part of anymore, and I wasn't really interested in at all when it became clear she no longer considered Kevin any type of priority or someone even worth thinking about. I so wish they also did more with John, who was such a commanding presence in season two and one of the biggest reasons why it was such a stellar season of television, but he was basically relegated to cameo support this season for whatever bizarre reason. Maybe his actor had the least clout/shittiest agent out of the main adult cast? Or the writers are just that inept this latest season?
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Jun 5, 2017 11:11
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i want a fourth season where it turns out that because of the machining people back and forth one of the universes starts to die and they go to war with each other and poo poo that would be loving sweet
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Jun 5, 2017 11:11
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savinhill posted:I so wish they also did more with John, who was such a commanding presence in season two and one of the biggest reasons why it was such a stellar season of television, but he was basically relegated to cameo support this season for whatever bizarre reason. Also, what a waste of Lindsey Duncan.
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Jun 5, 2017 11:58
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I teared up quite a few times during that. The most emotional bawling I got was right when the credits hit and I realised that we never saw Justin Theroux's cock.
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Jun 5, 2017 12:00
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I think having the ending focus on Kevin and Nora was probably the right choice, but none of the attempts at injecting ambiguity really worked for me. Like if Nora wasn't lying about the other world then that kind of ruins the Sudden Departure as a storytelling device for me. If Laurie is still alive then her episode feels a bit pointless to me. If Kevin and Nora are in the hotel world then its literally just Lost's ending again.
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Jun 5, 2017 12:24
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I'm only like 75% of the way through (she just fell off her bike, she hears the goat now), and I've read everything you've all posted, and I still don't know what the gently caress to expect.
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Jun 5, 2017 13:19
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My initial reaction to my wife was: Oh it's just LOST again but this time I like it. I think both endings boiled down are: everything that happened really happened (from someone's perspective) and it doesn't matter how or why, just that we're together and we made it. Anyway I don't think I'll be doing any rewatches because I'm afraid that (as previously noted) the "supernatural" stuff from previous seasons will do more harm than good to my critical opinion of the show as a whole.
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Jun 5, 2017 13:27
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