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Ya, what are judges even doing if they don't know current health. Judges lately seem useless.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:32
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| # ? May 16, 2024 16:03 |
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Euros day 1 was a colossal cockup, but day 2 onwards was good, I had a great time at UKGE this year and will defo be going back for euros too.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:54
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banned from Starbucks posted:Interesting. I'd like to see how it holds up vs current meta poo poo I really think it needs Whisper instead of Echo. Raged posted:I'm probably just tired from the drive, but does Miranda and 2 y-wings sound like a good idea? It's OK. Lone Wolf/Rey Dash is probably better. Slandible posted:I watched you guys play for a few minutes last night, system looks really clean and alot better than the days of Vassel. There were still a few janky features, but most of the jank of of the sort that is weird the first time you see it, then it just works.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:30
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polynominal-c posted:Two questions: Yeah, I think that's the idea with Hyperwave Comm Scanner, to give flexibility if there are high PS ships setting up later. The TAPs can haul balls fast across the field while the shuttle slowboats and waits. Not sure on the second part, but I think the idea is that they run in a line formation and with Hux and systems officer, they all get focus tokens and one gets a target lock, even if they have to burn actions to repositioning
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Jun 4, 2017 20:11
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I still need to figure out list making in it, but I would be interested in some TTS games later today.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:20
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I'm finishing up a move into a new place today, once I'm set back up I would totally be down to play on TTS. I've gotten a few games in with dzikakulka while he's been working on the mod, he's a pretty cool dude. Fun to play against--his enjoyment of the actual game doesn't seem to have been diminished by his work on the mod.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:33
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Well all the intro videos for list building seem to be an older version and I have no idea how to do this. The actually game play I think I understand, but I don't know how to build lists in this. If anyone's free and could show me and get a game in, I'd appreciate it.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:40
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I posted a Reddit link in the last couple pages with everything you need. But really it's super easy. Off to the side there is a little tray. Click the buttons to make instructions appear. Follow instructions.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:18
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Ok rhat video was far better than the rest. Think I've got a list saved and understand commands and dials. Im up for trying it tonight if anyone's down to deal with me.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:23
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I'd be down for a couple games. zig.dogcop on steam
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Jun 5, 2017 01:22
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(100) "Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter Juke (2), Comm Relay (3) "Pure Sabacc" (25) - TIE Striker Veteran Instincts (1), Adaptive Ailerons (0), Lightweight Frame (2) Omicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle Collision Detector (0), Darth Vader (3) "Deathfire" (25) - TIE Bomber Cluster Mines (4), Extra Munitions (2), Flechette Torpedoes (2), Guidance Chips (0) Flew this tonight. It's not bad. Really looking forward to the TIE aggressor in place of the shuttle.
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Jun 5, 2017 02:38
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Man, TTS is so much more slick than when I last saw it.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:10
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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I really enjoyed a few games I got in it last night. Im down for goon games whenever, same name and picture on here as I am on Steam.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:39
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Euro champs #1 list was: Miranda Leebo (100) Miranda Doni (47) - K-Wing Twin Laser Turret (6), Extra Munitions (2), Sabine Wren (2), Seismic Charges (2), Cluster Mines (4), Advanced SLAM (2) "Leebo" (53) - YT-2400 Lone Wolf (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Rey (2), Outrider (5), Countermeasures (3) That's the same Miranda that I just took to a store champs, but the guy downgraded to Leebo from Dash to add Countermeasures. Weird!
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Jun 5, 2017 19:01
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"Well, you see, the jumpmaster is still the problem ship and not bombs because I'm glad the 2400 did well. My friend loves that ship and I want some reason to finish painting mine.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:05
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Chill la Chill posted:"Well, you see, the jumpmaster is still the problem ship and not bombs because It's both. In fact, it's Jumps, a little bit of Mindlink, TLTs, sabine, advanced SLAM, and Biggs, to name but a few.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:14
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Having never really flown against bombs or flown with them myself, what it is about them that makes them so dangerous and/or dominant? Is it really that easy for Miranda to drop a set of cluster mines directly in front of someone to where they literally can't move without going through them?
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Jun 5, 2017 19:32
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Having never really flown against bombs or flown with them myself, what it is about them that makes them so dangerous and/or dominant? Is it really that easy for Miranda to drop a set of cluster mines directly in front of someone to where they literally can't move without going through them? Thanks to Advanced SLAM, yes
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Jun 5, 2017 19:36
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No. It's really that easy to drop a set of cluster mines directly on top of someone so they go off immediately and do an average of four damage before the shooting phase even happens.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:37
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Crossposting my Quickdraw from the painting thread at thespaceinvaders request. On a game side, I ran Vessery, Quickdraw and Ryad in a fun tourney. Went 2-1 and lost in the last round against a mindlinked Assaj and 2 Scyks to a mixture of bad flying and really horrible dice (hot for him, tepid-cold for me). Probably couldn't have won even if his dice were more average (seriously, he rolled like 3 blanks on his reds the entire game) due to my mistakes, need more practice with Quickdraw.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:56
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Having never really flown against bombs or flown with them myself, what it is about them that makes them so dangerous and/or dominant? Is it really that easy for Miranda to drop a set of cluster mines directly in front of someone to where they literally can't move without going through them? http://randolphw.github.io/echolocation/ OK, select a K Wing, and look at available maneuvers. Now imagine that after doing a maneuver, you are dropping a set of cluster mines with the 1 straight template out the back.  That covers pretty almost all the space within the blossom (because cluster mines are huge). And you're still shooting that round too, though probably without mods unless you kept a target lock. Now consider a 1 speed move with a SLAM and then dropping a set of mines with Advanced Slam after the SLAM.  Still a pretty big area you can cover, with a set of mines deployed with a 1 straight template out the back. You're not shooting that round, but if your opponent hits 2 of the 3 mines and rolls average damage you're gonna get 2 natural plus 1 with Sabine. Here's the same, but with 2 speed moves only and then a SLAM.  Getting access to the hard turns makes this I think really the sweet spot for bombing. Lots of flexibility, and I especially like that you can make a hard turn to get in the path of a higher PS ship, and then SLAM and bombs away. And now, 3 speed moves with SLAM  You can see that you're really stretching out here, with the straight move covering the same distance with the ship as a "7" speed move before dropping the bombs. And all together, in one big blossom.  Add a 1 straight template out the back with cluster mines for each available ending spot and you see where the magic is.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:13
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Double post for LOL Found this on redddit. The C-ROC cruiser base is misprinted, and doesn't have the blue line to divide fore/aft sections. 
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Jun 5, 2017 21:22
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That's a C-ROC of poo poo right there, lol! Anyway, here's my feel for the state of the game. I see people say things like this: "In a turret/Ordnance heavy meta, it is no wonder the Imps aren't making final tables." To which I say: that makes no sense. Imperials, and specific the Imperial Aces like Soontir, Inquisitor, etc) have the best tech against turrets and ordnance. Evade tokens, lots and lots of green dice, token stacks, autothrusters, and palpatine (even nerfed palp is huge in that matchup). They were the only thing that could stand up to the original triple jumpmaster list with regularity. The problem is that there are a lot of other things keeping those same ships out of the high-level meta. There's a lot of ace-hate. The ace-hate is built on Advanced SLAM bombs. The ships that can arc dodge, token stack, and evade incoming alpha strikes tend to be low-health aces like Soontir. Advanced SLAM bombs completely demolish those aces. See the above post with movement blossoms. If you're anywhere in front of the K-Wing within range 3, you're eating bombs. "So hang outside of range 3, then zoom in and kill it," you may say. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. K-Wings have 9hp. If it's Miranda, it regents too. Your standard imperial Ace list cannot reliably deal 9 damage in one round. So you still lose an ace in exchange for SOME of its health. That matchup (SLAM bombs vs Imp Aces) is one of the most lopsided in all of X-Wing. The prevalence of stress generators (and to a lesser extent, Slicer Tools) is the other nail in the Imperial Ace coffin. The same ships that have 3 greens, autothrusters, and token stacks almost universally rely on PTL for those life-preserving actions. Stress generators like the stresshog and Asajj completely shut them down. Without their actions, they die. Slicer Tools completely ignore their defenses, and they die. Anecdotally, I can say this: every time I fly Imperial Aces against bombs, I lose. Every time I fly them against torpedoes/missiles, I do well. I firmly believe that what X-Wing needs is a buff to the Imperial Aces that are the natural predator of the turrets and ordnance lists we see today.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:41
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Yeah, aces were the other good list when triple u-boats were good because a tokened-up Soontir didn't give af about four hits. It's Sabine that put them in the ground.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:50
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I've actually been wondering how TIE swarms would so in the current climate. I've been flying one for a little while (3 x Academy, 3 x Black Squad with Crack shot, Howlrunner with Crack shot), and not lost with it yet against several builds but never flown it against bomb builds. I'll probably take it to a store championship in the next couple weeks just to see how it goes, because no one around here hates themselves enough to fly swarms for 5-6 rounds in a row (Luckily, I do hate myself), and no one has any much practice against them.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:55
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TIE Crack Swarm will own jumpmasters pretty easily and kill Miranda before she can do anything but nobody flies swarms. The problem is definitely still jumpmasters and mindlink, once that is fixed list building can really open up. The price for a jumpmaster with that dial and options is indefensible
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Jun 5, 2017 22:01
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So why are mines such a big problem now and they weren't when the K-wing came out?
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Jun 5, 2017 22:06
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Floppychop posted:So why are mines such a big problem now and they weren't when the K-wing came out? Sabine and the buff to clusters where crits now count
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Jun 5, 2017 22:14
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Floppychop posted:So why are mines such a big problem now and they weren't when the K-wing came out? It's a combination of several things A) Sabine crew. That +1 damage is huuuuge. B) Cluster Mines got a buff. They now deal damage on hit or crit; used to be just hit. C) People figured out how good they were. Kind of like the stresshog: that configuration was possible for a long time before anyone actually flew it.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:16
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ConfusedUs posted:A) Sabine crew. That +1 damage is huuuuge.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:22
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enigmahfc posted:I've actually been wondering how TIE swarms would so in the current climate. I've been flying one for a little while (3 x Academy, 3 x Black Squad with Crack shot, Howlrunner with Crack shot), and not lost with it yet against several builds but never flown it against bomb builds. I'll probably take it to a store championship in the next couple weeks just to see how it goes, because no one around here hates themselves enough to fly swarms for 5-6 rounds in a row (Luckily, I do hate myself), and no one has any much practice against them. There are a lot of lists that clown on TIE swarms today. Even worlds' runner up and swarm enthusiast Dallas Parker doesn't fly them anymore, because 2 red dice is just not enough to crack ships these days. 3 x7 defenders is better against most things in the meta than 6 crack shot TIEs are. Having flown a mindlink Fenn list against a TIE swarm in a tournament, it was hilarious to have Fenn get on the flanks/behind and Pac-Man a TIE fighter every single turn for 3 turns in a row.  ConfusedUs posted:ACES "But what about Fenn Rau?" they say Fenn Rau is a ship most commonly run with Mindlink, and doesn't need to rely on PTL/green moves and his own actions to get the tokens to survive. He also pairs really well with high health, heavy hitters that can tank damage for him while he goes for his big opportunity (jumpmaster, shadowcaster, both?) The list with 2 missile boats and Fenn Rau is so great because you have the missile boats working as the blockers and tanks to corral enemy ships into a Fenn killzone. The jumps dump out so much damage that you can't ignore them and try to chase down Fenn. If you could fit in Soontir in a list with 2 large imperial ships that could put out as much damage as Jumpmasters, you'd bet you'd see Soontir + double patrol leader Decimators. Aces are still good/OK, but they're not "worth it". It really comes back to the Jumpmaster platform being undercosted. Contracted Scouts with missiles get you way too much ship for ~30-34 points, and that's why Fenn Rau can exist in a world where Soontir cannot.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:25
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alg posted:TIE Crack Swarm will own jumpmasters pretty easily and kill Miranda before she can do anything but nobody flies swarms. This is my experience. There are a lot of people around here that play either 2 big ships or 3 regular. If its 2 big ships, its pretty common for the TIE swarm to kill one in the first round of fighting, and if its 3 ships I can sometime take out 1 and hurt another. I just FEEL like its a good call in the current meta, but don't have the practice against Miranda. Luckily, my friend recent 'drank the kool-aid' and may start flying her on the reg, so hopefully I can prove I can take that fucker out quick. Talas posted:Autodamage is the worst, the WORST. quoting so hard. canyoneer posted:3 x7 defenders is better against most things in the meta than 6 crack shot TIEs are. The Fenn thing is the only thing that worries me, but a bumped Fenn with (maybe) a single token from Mindlink will still lose out to the laws of averages because never trust green dice. And Defenders have not been a problem. Those are the most predictable ships in the game. enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 22:29
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Sabine is a MASSIVE deal. She takes Cluster Mines from needing better than average rolls to kill soontir, to needing worse than average rolls if you hit with all at once, or potentially not even needing to roll at all if you somehow tag him with mines 3 times in a row), not to mention that she makes it possible to bomb your own ships to damage impossible to hit aces. And yeah, they took people a little while to grasp, especially because TLTs were just easier to learn. There's also the fact that Deadeye torpscouts suppressed them so heavily, particularly Miranda. But bombs aren't the *only* problem for Soontir. With Palp he could fairly reliably laugh off four hits - but four hits is becoming the norm, and 5 is becoming the thing you need to tank - and he can't tank 5 with any reliability, especially given the Palp nerf. He has to roll all paint to block Norra, Fenn, Rey, Miranda-boosted missiles (indeed, those are impossible to block with 4 dice if they get all hits, for Homing). And that's ignoring the Ghost, the Upsilon, and the odd Swarm Leader build. And they you get stuff like Ketsu who can block him, tractor him off her, kll a green die, shoot him with 4 dice, kill another green die, then leave his 1 health 1 green rear end for Bossk or Dengar to polish off. Then you look at things like HotCop Gunner Vader RAC. Good luck dodging four well modified dice twice when the first takes one of your tokens even if you didn't need it, and not dying to the up to two autocrits. Then you look at Assaj, the single best stress dealer in the game. In short, the problem with Soontir is that Fenn is better and cheaper, and people have teched heavily to beat Fenn, so Soontir just gets ploughed under. ASLAM bombs and Sabine are a huge part of that (you should not ever be able to delete my 35 point ship with your 35 point ship in a single *action* without any risk of failure or hidden information, but Warden Squadron Pilot with Cluster Mines and Sabine can do that trivially if he's anywhere in the death blossom), but you can't discount spike damage, token attacks, and stress control either. There's also the issue that 3 red dice with just focus is... kinda pathetic these days. Squints were always on a knife edge of fragility, variance, and skill, and between the risk of things that suppress their variance, things that massively take advantage of their fragility, and things that lugh in the face of their skill, they're pretty hosed. Still, it's clearly possible to do well with Squints, RAC/Carnor got to the top 16 of euros... It's also worth noting that for the same price point and with arc dodging generally suppressed anyway, Defenders are Just Better. E: enigmahfc posted:I've actually been wondering how TIE swarms would so in the current climate. I've been flying one for a little while (3 x Academy, 3 x Black Squad with Crack shot, Howlrunner with Crack shot), and not lost with it yet against several builds but never flown it against bomb builds. I'll probably take it to a store championship in the next couple weeks just to see how it goes, because no one around here hates themselves enough to fly swarms for 5-6 rounds in a row (Luckily, I do hate myself), and no one has any much practice against them. They're poo poo. Everything that owns Soontir, owns them even harder; reliable 4 and 5-die damage dealers especially. Crack Swarm might manage to take down one jump, but if they fail, they're losing 3 TIEs. Repeat until they lose the war of attrition. And then you introduce Norra, Rey, Fenn, Miranda, Bossk, Ketsu, Dengar, Defenders, etc etc etc and they just go home and cry. 3 red with focus doesn't really do it any more, let alone two. Crack helps, but not much. And a competent Miranda player shouldn't be getting scratched by them. She'll slow roll the approach until maths tells her they're getting into range this round, then she'll SLAM over their head and drop a cluster mine on Howlrunner. Or, if they approach piecemeal to stop that happening, she'll pick them off piecemeal instead. Not to mention that she's more and more often being run with Biggs at the moment. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 22:30
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What does everyone think about the stress hog+BBZZ list. After watching and talking to a player who is stupidly good with it I'm thinking of playing around with it. Figure it would be a good way to learn formation flying.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:18
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Fenn Rau (or Teroch) isn't any less hurt by bombs than other aces. That's the reason I flew Zuckuss in my mindlink list instead of Teroch. Zuckuss could eat the bombs if he had to. The difference is that, unlike the Imperials, you can put in some big-base tanks with good damage output to screen for him. Can't really do that with Soontir.  Raged posted:What does everyone think about the stress hog+BBZZ list. After watching and talking to a player who is stupidly good with it I'm thinking of playing around with it. Figure it would be a good way to learn formation flying. It's really weak to aces who can dodge their arcs, much like any swarm. Which basically don't exist right now other than Fenn Rau. Otherwise it's actually pretty good.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:23
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ConfusedUs posted:
Imps really could use a half decent large ship w/ turret besides the VT,but I guess that's not their thing.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:27
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Raged posted:Imps really could use a half decent large ship w/ turret besides the VT,but I guess that's not their thing. I'd run the gently caress out of Firesprays if they cost 5ish points less and had a barrel roll natively.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:30
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Make Sabine a two-crew card and that Cluster Mines die cannot be modified in any way. Or make bombs an attack, not an action.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:34
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Raged posted:What does everyone think about the stress hog+BBZZ list. After watching and talking to a player who is stupidly good with it I'm thinking of playing around with it. Figure it would be a good way to learn formation flying. What is the actual list, something like this? Probably not the TBs since no one takes those. Gold Squadron Pilot (18) Twin Laser Turret (6) R3-A2 (2) BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0) Blue Squadron Pilot (22) Fire-Control System (2) Tractor Beam (1) Blue Squadron Pilot (22) Fire-Control System (2) Tractor Beam (1) Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder
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Jun 5, 2017 23:36
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| # ? May 16, 2024 16:03 |
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I don't fly bombs so I don't super care but if you nerf bombs people will just go back to whining about stresshogs and Rebel regen. Just like they did before Sabine.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:36
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