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Function reprint of Vampiric Tutor but make it cost 1 black pyrexian mana and get rid of the life loss on the card text
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Jun 5, 2017 22:32
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Lets Pickle posted:I feel like at this point they're never going to ban Marvel, just to spite Saffron Olive. Just play modern, I sold my mono black zombie deck and D&T deck and went Baral Storm and it's the most fun i've ever had in magic. Modern has so many diverse decks so every game is a cat and mouse game of when it's safe for me to combo off. Storm was about another 100 tix than mono black zombies (MTGO) and is a tier 1 deck - there's also living end that i've seen 5-0 for 133 tix (has a recent 4 color deck tech on MTGgoldfish: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-five-color-living-end-modern), dredge, d&t and other tier 1.5/2 decks that are under 200-300 a pop and the modern decks have held value well to boot. Paper is obviously different but Standard decks are not cheap and most pieces outside of lands and future modern pieces are going to be worthless. Standard right now is just not nearly as interactive as you can see by the color pie. Things like New Perspectives, As Fortold and other interesting decks don't really stand a chance against a field of creature and/or temur/marvel decks. U/R is a decent archetype but seems sooooooo boring to pilot. I have a RG pummeler deck that I made on the cheap because it's hilarious to do a 20/20 Pummeler under a Marvel deck, but that's out of pure spite. TL;DR: Play modern, it's much more fun, better attended (if you play paper), and a much better "use" of your tix if you play online.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:36
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Sickening posted:I am a fan of k return. Its live against all the good wide decks a lot of the time and an ace against affinity. Its basically perfect as a one of right now. Anger is really good right now but the issue is that its also very hard to cast for the deck. What about Flaying Tendrils?
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Jun 5, 2017 22:40
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Lets Pickle posted:I feel like at this point they're never going to ban Marvel, just to spite Saffron Olive.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:41
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Wizards is going to be very very reluctant to touch the standard banlist after how much they recently banned. Marvel is a card that leads to profoundly bad gameplay, and is pretty undeniably the best deck atm, but is prone to bad variance itself and isn't absolutely dominating everything else. I don't think it qualifies as things stand -- this isn't Copy Cat -- even if it hurts standard attendance in the short term. They, possibly rightly, see the rising expectation of seasonal bans as a much bigger problem.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:48
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TheKingofSprings posted:What about Flaying Tendrils? do you have me on ignore or something 
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Jun 5, 2017 22:49
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BG Emrakul vs Jeskai+ Copy-Cat vs Temur+ Marvel Whoever wins... we lose!
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Jun 5, 2017 22:54
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ShaneB posted:do you have me on ignore or something It's a very busy day today I don't have time to read!!
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Jun 5, 2017 22:58
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TheKingofSprings posted:What about Flaying Tendrils? Easier to cast than anger but isn't instant. Better against dredge though. It's not awful , just a small downgrade overall.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:08
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Sickening posted:Easier to cast than anger but isn't instant. Better against dredge though. It's not awful , just a small downgrade overall. I mean Anger isn't an instant either. I still think between the two Anger catches everything including Prized Amalgam, and double red is only very slightly worse. The only time you couldn't fetch up double Red is if you opened with a single fetch and Basic Swamp in hand or only a single fetch + traverse, and used that to get your Basic Swamp. Any other time you can fetch RB/RG and then get double black following it. However it misses on Etched Champion and maybe something else I'm missing? Kor Firewalker? Also dredge is a bad matchup. I feel like I want to make my bad matchups winnable rather than just make decent matchups a little better. ShaneB fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 23:24
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ShaneB posted:I mean Anger isn't an instant either. Double black is a color you just naturally have at 3 lands. 3 red doesn't always line up. Despite the fact you can't hit prized, it generally would thin the board enough to make the board manageable and exile a creature or two. I would still prefer k return though.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:38
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Sickening posted:Double black is a color you just naturally have at 3 lands. 3 red doesn't always line up. Despite the fact you can't hit prized, it generally would thin the board enough to make the board manageable and exile a creature or two. I would still prefer k return though. Anger is 1RR, not RRR. Triple red would be terrible yeah. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong? But yeah I'd have to test more than I have on either selection.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:43
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Sickening posted:I never understood why this isn't in modern. This seems like a very fair magic card. Sometimes it gets you a card, sometimes multiple, sometimes nothing at all. Seems super safe in standard where you won't even print loving duress. Lore-specific name + non-evergreen mechanic. This is why getting rid of core sets was a bad idea Wizards!
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Jun 5, 2017 23:52
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ShaneB posted:Anger is 1RR, not RRR. Triple red would be terrible yeah. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong? But yeah I'd have to test more than I have on either selection. Phone posting on poor reception and it not always saving my correction. In jund you have exactly two lands that produce red. Depending on your list , you have a set of fetches that doesn't fetch one of them. Sometimes you are going to get hands with 3 lands and no ability to cast anger and it basically demands to be cast on curve. Anger isn't terrible. Anger is just has its downsides that make it slightly clunky in this deck. It's slightly better in grixis because the manabase lines up better and you are going to play grindier game.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:58
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I found a place nearby that was selling boxes of Masters sets for sub-$200 CAD. As far as I know that's an insane steal, but what should I do with it? These things appreciate pretty well, right? Should I hold onto the box for a couple years and turn a profit?
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Jun 6, 2017 00:08
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DariusLikewise posted:Function reprint of Vampiric Tutor but make it cost 1 black pyrexian mana and get rid of the life loss on the card text Reminds me of my favorite custom card: 
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Jun 6, 2017 00:13
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Sickening posted:I never understood why this isn't in modern. This seems like a very fair magic card. Sometimes it gets you a card, sometimes multiple, sometimes nothing at all. Seems super safe in standard where you won't even print loving duress. it + young peezy + probe was probably too good, but with probe out of the picture it seems fine
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Jun 6, 2017 00:16
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Non-ironic ask: Is it statistically relevant that Marvel is over-represented in Top 32 if it's not putting in same numbers in Top 8s?
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Jun 6, 2017 00:17
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I feel like if there was say, similar to how planeswalker decks work, just a collection of "core set" style precon decks that were standard legal, it'd probably do a good job of finding ways to reprint things like Mutavault or Urborg in standard again. Basically the Welcome 2016 style products but with beefier cards.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:23
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Ignore me!!!
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Jun 6, 2017 00:40
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Crackbone posted:Non-ironic ask: Is it statistically relevant that Marvel is over-represented in Top 32 if it's not putting in same numbers in Top 8s? There's like 1 match difference between top 8 and top 32, so no not really. Also 75% of the US GP top 8 was Marvel. A full third of the top 8s across the world was Marvel.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:40
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Crackbone posted:Non-ironic ask: Is it statistically relevant that Marvel is over-represented in Top 32 if it's not putting in same numbers in Top 8s? Neat question, that's basically my job. There are 16 matches in the round of 32 and 8 in the round of 16. So 24 matches determine the difference between top 32 and top 8. Say there are six decks in the top 32. It would be a really tall order to arrive at estimates of win rates accurate enough to confidently distinguish between decks using those match results. So no.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:41
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Therapy is a card I can't see wotc putting into standard again because you have to actually think about things and if you suck it feels bad.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:41
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gif Probst posted:I feel like if there was say, similar to how planeswalker decks work, just a collection of "core set" style precon decks that were standard legal, it'd probably do a good job of finding ways to reprint things like Mutavault or Urborg in standard again. Basically the Welcome 2016 style products but with beefier cards. This is a really good point. A ban is when they admit they made a mistake by including a card in a format. They should also have a system where they admit they made a mistake by not including a card in a format, e.g. Force of Will in Modern.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:45
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Crackbone posted:Non-ironic ask: Is it statistically relevant that Marvel is over-represented in Top 32 if it's not putting in same numbers in Top 8s? Magic is a game of chance to begin with. A larger set of data is more relevant than a smaller set of data.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:55
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The front half of therapy seems ok for a reprint. The flashback is a bit strong.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:00
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Rinkles posted:Wizards is going to be very very reluctant to touch the standard banlist after how much they recently banned. Marvel is a card that leads to profoundly bad gameplay, and is pretty undeniably the best deck atm, but is prone to bad variance itself and isn't absolutely dominating everything else. If you get Marvel going in any capacity it isn't actually prone to variance. You almost always hit an energy generating spell (that simultaneously helps you continue to stay alive) or a backbreaking card like Chandra, Flamecaller.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:03
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black potus posted:Therapy is a card I can't see wotc putting into standard again because you have to actually think about things and if you suck it feels bad. Pretty much, yeah. Free Cabal Therapy
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Jun 6, 2017 01:38
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gif Probst posted:I feel like if there was say, similar to how planeswalker decks work, just a collection of "core set" style precon decks that were standard legal, it'd probably do a good job of finding ways to reprint things like Mutavault or Urborg in standard again. Basically the Welcome 2016 style products but with beefier cards. I think Wizards wants to avoid the situation where they print a good card in a pre-constructed deck and then grinders and grogs scoops all of those up and the newer players, for whom these decks are ostensibly designed, can't acquire them. With the exception of Commander, Wizards has been deliberately designing pre-cons and the like to be low-power so that stock is readily available for each deck. They don't want another situation like with C13 where all of the decks with True-Name Nemesis got bought out super-quick. And even then I don't think they've had a situation like that since, so they're learning a little bit. Not saying they would never do it, but the market space that pre-cons occupy is for new players. No one is taking a pre-con out of the box and straight into a GP, Wizards knows this and is OK with it. But I'm sure someone in Magic history randomly cleaned up a big event with a pre-con at one point. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 01:43
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gif Probst posted:I feel like if there was say, similar to how planeswalker decks work, just a collection of "core set" style precon decks that were standard legal, it'd probably do a good job of finding ways to reprint things like Mutavault or Urborg in standard again. Basically the Welcome 2016 style products but with beefier cards. At least they should be better at printed needed commons/uncommons that work as safety valves, like Duress, Lightning Strike, Unsummon, Naturalize, Banishing Light. These things should really never go out of Standard. I was happy to see SaffronOlive sneak in Borderland Marauder in his red deck because that is only in standard because of Welcome Decks. One day I really want to play Sphinx of Magosi or Victory's Herald in a standard deck.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:59
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black potus posted:Therapy is a card I can't see wotc putting into standard again because you have to actually think about things and if you suck it feels bad. Eh. If you miss then you at least know that they don't have the card you didn't want them to have. That's not nothing, even if you obviously didn't want to pay B and a card for it.
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Jun 6, 2017 02:12
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Snacksmaniac posted:The front half of therapy seems ok for a reprint. The flashback is a bit strong. 
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Jun 6, 2017 02:15
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C-Euro posted:I think Wizards wants to avoid the situation where they print a good card in a pre-constructed deck and then grinders and grogs scoops all of those up and the newer players, for whom these decks are ostensibly designed, can't acquire them. With the exception of Commander, Wizards has been deliberately designing pre-cons and the like to be low-power so that stock is readily available for each deck. They don't want another situation like with C13 where all of the decks with True-Name Nemesis got bought out super-quick. And even then I don't think they've had a situation like that since, so they're learning a little bit. not a big event but i 4-1'd FNM with the born of the gods Event Deck out of the box.
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Jun 6, 2017 02:25
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Rinkles posted:Wizards is going to be very very reluctant to touch the standard banlist after how much they recently banned. Marvel is a card that leads to profoundly bad gameplay, and is pretty undeniably the best deck atm, but is prone to bad variance itself and isn't absolutely dominating everything else. It's this. There are just problems with the way the card pool is currently constructed that they need time to get out from under. People were calling for Gideon bans a few months ago, now it sees only fringe play. Banning Marvel will cause vehicles or something else to be the best deck, and then you'll need to ban another card. The deck is also much worse than Copy Cat was, especially since instead of half of your combo drawing cards or acting like a FTK, it rots in your hand. They can also just print reasonable duress style discard or fix it a number of other ways, the deck is not nearly as consistent or resilient as Copy Cat.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:07
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C-Euro posted:I think Wizards wants to avoid the situation where they print a good card in a pre-constructed deck and then grinders and grogs scoops all of those up and the newer players, for whom these decks are ostensibly designed, can't acquire them. With the exception of Commander, Wizards has been deliberately designing pre-cons and the like to be low-power so that stock is readily available for each deck. They don't want another situation like with C13 where all of the decks with True-Name Nemesis got bought out super-quick. And even then I don't think they've had a situation like that since, so they're learning a little bit. I think the main problem with the C13 situation from Wizards' perspective was that they had all the stores bitching at them, because wizards only sold the commander decks as sets of all 5, but the one deck would sell out and the stores got left with the others languishing on their shelves. It was the same when there used to be 2 event decks for each set and one was obviously way better value than the other, but stores could only get them as a box with like 5 of each deck. I know my LGSs always had tons of leftovers of whichever event deck didn't have Thragtusk or whatever in it, and they were griping to Wizards "why are we buying these from you if we can only sell half the decks in the box?" I don't think wizards cares that much if they have a single stand-alone product that happens to be crazy good value because it has a chase money card in it. Just look at FTV sets.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:14
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Entropic posted:I think the main problem with the C13 situation from Wizards' perspective was that they had all the stores bitching at them, because wizards only sold the commander decks as sets of all 5, but the one deck would sell out and the stores got left with the others languishing on their shelves. It was the same when there used to be 2 event decks for each set and one was obviously way better value than the other, but stores could only get them as a box with like 5 of each deck. I know my LGSs always had tons of leftovers of whichever event deck didn't have Thragtusk or whatever in it, and they were griping to Wizards "why are we buying these from you if we can only sell half the decks in the box?" I think that I read somewhere that Masterpieces have replaced FTV sets.
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Jun 6, 2017 04:12
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I convinced my friend to run this in a Rav-TS standard deck and it was solid. It either hit something relevant or was a two mana Peek that set up his Persecutes. It wasn't as good as the Fall half of Rise//Fall, but it complemented it fine.
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Jun 6, 2017 05:14
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I'm nowhere near as good as most people I see streaming, but I'm pretty pleased I hit a new personal high MTGO rating tonight! AKH has been pretty fun and apparently agreeable!
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Jun 6, 2017 05:29
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gif Probst posted:not a big event but i 4-1'd FNM with the born of the gods Event Deck out of the box. Well, that's no good. Better eliminate those decks. And we should definitely never print a deck that's playable in modern with a clear upgrade path ever again. (somebody bought like 4 copies of the modern event deck and cracked a fresh one at the start of each GP match to watch the opponent's reaction (yes, that's legal))
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Jun 6, 2017 07:50
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MisterOblivious posted:Well, that's no good. Better eliminate those decks. God I hope that modern event deck story is true
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Jun 6, 2017 09:02
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