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In general, if you're going to make a player make a skill check, the consequences of success or failure need to be immediate. In the case of forgery, you could have them roll at creation to see if they have the means to make the forgery at all, our you could hold off the roll until the forgery is actually inspected to see if it passes muster. (For the love of good, don't do both, though. That would just be rear end in a top hat DMing.) For things like stealth, you shouldn't even roll unless failure means something spots you right now, or you're forced to take a different route right now, or something. If the player has the time to look at a bad roll and just try again, or even move on as if they hadn't rolled anything, then they shouldn't have rolled dice in the first place.
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Jun 6, 2017 21:41
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DM rolls stealth checks?
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Jun 6, 2017 21:44
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Dungeon concept idea: Oops, All Mimics. The doors. The carpets, everything. Either mimic or animated object. The kobolds even are actually sculptures with mimics inside. Then at the end the large chest isn't actually a mimic (but inside it there's another smaller chest that is actually a mimic)
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Jun 6, 2017 21:52
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For out of combat stealth, I'd personally allow the rogue to act on the knowledge of how high/low the roll was but not allow the player a repeat roll until some sort of change in circumstances occurs. Basically the rogue knows there's no way they can approach a given target stealthily. Of course the characters are perfectly able to create a change of circumstances by, say, providing a distraction.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:01
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Dungeon concept idea: Oops, All Mimics. Room, yes. Dungeon, no. You might have an odd number of mimics pop up in earlier places, before the Room of Mimics, with either no mimics after or like 1 mimic in an otherwise empty room to see if you can get them to fireball the drapes. But, if every room Is Mimics, they'll just break the door and shoot a fireball through it to burn everything to the ground. If you then have One Object that they needed to get without damaging it, you're treading on really annoying ground. Plus, wouldn't it be boring to have several completely identical fights? I think it'd probably work in a book, though.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:11
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Room, yes. Dungeon, no. I'm thinking there's so many because a wizard was screwing around with them and invented some breeding ones that got out of control. The energy for the creation of a lil' mimic requires the absorption of a nearby magical item but the child keeps the properties of the item. So invisible mimics, flaming mimics, mimics that comprehend languages, screaming mimics. The wizard got himself killed and the mimics are out of control and raw dogging it all over his personal supply of arcane devices. Edit: its that one gross wizard from the gross awesome wizard pic, you know which one.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:26
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Did somebody say "gross awesome wizard pic"?
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Jun 6, 2017 22:30
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Harvey Mantaco posted:I'm thinking there's so many because a wizard was screwing around with them and invented some breeding ones that got out of control. The energy for the creation of a lil' mimic requires the absorption of a nearby magical item but the child keeps the properties of the item. So invisible mimics, flaming mimics, mimics that comprehend languages, screaming mimics. The wizard got himself killed and the mimics are out of control and raw dogging it all over his personal supply of arcane devices.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:33
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mastershakeman posted:pretty much every argument falls apart with stealth skill checks though. if the player acts on knowledge he failed it's a mess If the player has enough time to act on knowledge before consequences occur, why did you make them roll stealth?
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Jun 6, 2017 22:35
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Klungar posted:Which ones do you already have? I just took warlock 2 (paladin 5) so far I have nothing. Reclaimer posted:Really interested in your Archfey patron, actually. Queen of Air and Darkness seems like she would play real well with Bane. I homebrewed him up, here's what I wrote on him but the DM and I are slowly working things out. Someone suggested the Witcher 3 for lore and I took that and ran with it.  Ceallach, Lord of Nightmares, Leader of the Cold Riders, and Master of the Fey Code Duello Caellach leads the Cold Riders, a band of fey who sweep into the Prime Material plane like a blizzard to punish transgressors against the Court. Worthy opponents are given an opportunity to succeed in a trial by combat, which Caellach oversees. Unworthy opponents are left frozen in place, alive but imprisoned in magical ice for an entire year with only their nightmares to entertain them. Caellach is obsessed with his version of the Code Duello, the rights by which two opponents will honorably duel, and is vying for it to become the de facto manner in which fey disagreements are settled. He believes you are only as powerful as your last conquest, and seeks champions on the Prime Material plane based on not only combat prowess, but devotion to the honors of war.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:39
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mimic room idea: introduce a mimic early in the dungeon so they've got them on the brain(especially if you have new players), design what looks like a normal harmless heavily furnished room that they have to double back on at some point and when they re-enter the room later it's completely empty for the rest of the dungeon they'll be eyeing every chair or door or coatrack with suspicion
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Jun 6, 2017 22:41
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To reiterate what I asked last page, is gold worth more or less in 3.5 vs 5e, in terms of buying power?
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Jun 6, 2017 23:04
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Tir McDohl posted:To reiterate what I asked last page, is gold worth more or less in 3.5 vs 5e, in terms of buying power? Since 5E tends to assume that most magic items beyond healing potions aren't, by default, just available to buy from merchants my experience has been you tend to accumulate a lot of gold in 5E that you don't necessarily have many uses for outside of the odd expensive spell component or whatever random stuff you come up with for your character to spend a fortune on.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:13
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Tir McDohl posted:To reiterate what I asked last page, is gold worth more or less in 3.5 vs 5e, in terms of buying power? If you're just talking about the prices, it's all over the place. A longsword's worth 15gp in both editions. Chainmail's worth 150gp in 3.5 and 75gp in 5. Halberds are 10gp in 3.5 and 20 in 5. Manacles are 15gp in 3.5 and 2gp in 5. A pony's worth 30gp in both editions. A galley's worth 30,000gp in both editons. An iron pot is worth 5sp in 3.5, and 2gp in 5. Caltrops and barrels cost the same in both editions. A bedroll in 5th ed costs 1gp, which is 10 times as much as the 1sp 3.5 wants. Oil is 1sp/flask in both editions, though. Who did this and why? I mean, who sat there and thought "bedrolls are far too cheap, but longships are just right", and why did they think that? I can sort of see loving with the armor and weapon costs until a 1st level character with 1st level starting gold can afford whatever you think a 1st level character should have, but why think about iron pots and then decide to quadruple the price? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 23:26
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Tir McDohl posted:To reiterate what I asked last page, is gold worth more or less in 3.5 vs 5e, in terms of buying power? The biggest difference between 3e and 5e is that there is no "baseline expected wealth-level" in 5e like there is in 3e, so you're potentially going to get a lot more gold from running a 3e adventure and doling out the loot as-written. On the other hand, that there isn't a wealth-by-level system in 5e also means that there's no "baseline expected gear-level" in 5e, so having all that extra gold/loot might not matter if you don't let the players buy a bunch of stuff with it anyway, although they may end up slightly more powerful if you dole out items as-written and they acquire a bunch of +2 swords and +1 armors more easily than 5e may have intended.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:36
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Thanks for the responses. Seems like I should use the gold values the book lists without trying to "convert" them. If something seems unfair I can always adjust.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:42
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I was just reading the druid spell summon elemental and I saw this part: At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, the challenge rating increases by 1 for each slot level above 5th. How exactly do you write up a challenge level 6 fire elemental?
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Jun 6, 2017 23:43
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Since 5E tends to assume that most magic items beyond healing potions aren't, by default, just available to buy from merchants my experience has been you tend to accumulate a lot of gold in 5E that you don't necessarily have many uses for outside of the odd expensive spell component or whatever random stuff you come up with for your character to spend a fortune on. Yeah one of my peeves with 5e is the complete lack of gold sinks unless you're a caster. Armor is the only thing non-casters really need to worry about gold-wise. But if you're a caster and, say, want to cast Chromatic Orb? haha gently caress you
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Jun 6, 2017 23:53
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Commissioning art, buying an interest in a store, saving a farming family from starvation, building a school, purchasing a noble title -- lots of ways to turn money into plot hooks.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:58
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None of those things really address the basic issue.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:59
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Krinkle posted:Everyone seems to think platinum is worth 100 gold. Is that from 3.5e? It's just 10 now. Plat was 100 in 4th.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:01
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Reene posted:None of those things really address the basic issue. What's the basic issue, then? Is it that casters have a downside not shared by martials? I admit that I have a hard time getting upset about that part.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:09
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Krinkle posted:I was just reading the druid spell summon elemental and I saw this part: Use the DMG's Monster Creation Guidelines to adjust the monster's AC or HP total to change its defensive CR, and/or adjust the monster's attack bonus or damage-per-hit to change its offensive CR, and then the average of both should come out to the new target CR that you want. The Fire Elemental has 102 HP, which is equivalent to a CR 3. It also has 13 AC, which is on-target for CR 3, but the Magic Resistance it has makes its AC count as 2 higher. 15 AC is 2 higher than what's expected for a CR 3 monster, so the Defensive CR gets adjusted to a final value of 4 The Fire Elemental deals 25 damage per round with its two "Touch" attacks and the damage-over-time effect, which is equivalent to a CR 3. It has an attack bonus of +6, which is 2 higher than the expected attack bonus of a CR 3 monster, so the Offensive CR gets adjusted to a final value of 4. Defensive CR of 4 and Offensive CR of 4 gives you a final CR of 4. The listed CR is 5, and the other 1 CR I can't account for probably comes from its Damage Immunities, Condition Immunities, and Fire Form, although the DMG don't give out a specific measure on how to quantify these exactly in CR. Anyway, the easiest way to do get a CR 6 Fire Elemental would be to: 1. increase the HP from anywhere to 146 to 160 HP, which brings the Defensive CR to 4, adjusted to 5 after AC + Magic Resistance 2. increase the damage of a Touch attack from 10 to 11 (or any other combination of two Touch attacks+damage-over time that yields a DPR of 27 to 32), which brings the total DPR to 27, which gives you an Offensive CR of 4. 3. increase the attack bonus from +6 to +7, because an Offensive CR of 4 has an expected attack bonus of +5, so you need the actual attack bonus to be 2 higher, so that the Offensive CR gets adjusted from 4 to 5 4. Defensive CR of 5 and Offensive CR of 5 gives you a final CR of 5, and then we continue to assume that the Damage Immunities, Condition Immunities, and Fire Form will take up the last point of CR, elevating it to a 6
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Jun 7, 2017 00:12
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I was a paladin in a chain shirt for a couple months scraping together 400 for a breastplate and then who cares. There's nothing left to want to buy anymore once you get your armor sorted out.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:14
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I dunno, to me that feels like saying there's nothing left to adventure for. Charter a ship to unknown lands, hire an assassin, bribe a duke for access to somewhere well-protected, hire a bard to follow you around writing epic poetry about your exploits. Treasure should create plot opportunity, not just let you click around fantasy Amazon or get a 1/day cast of Sending.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:18
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Subjunctive posted:I dunno, to me that feels like saying there's nothing left to adventure for. Charter a ship to unknown lands, hire an assassin, bribe a duke for access to somewhere well-protected, hire a bard to follow you around writing epic poetry about your exploits. Treasure should create plot opportunity, not just let you click around fantasy Amazon or get a 1/day cast of Sending. Why count the gold then? Why not just award '1 plot point' at the end? Gold is completely meaningless after your armour since it's not really a reward anymore its just a justification of 'so what do you want to do next'. Also if you're running a premade or doing a long running story arc then you cant really do most of the stuff you described so you end up just completely ignoring treasure or rewards for adventures.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:22
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Also roll20 makes you encumbered. A big red word Encumbered follows you around to let you know you have less movement than you think. And your weird float decimal points of weight are all in gold that you no longer care about.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:24
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kingcom posted:Why count the gold then? Why not just award '1 plot point' at the end? Gold is completely meaningless after your armour since it's not really a reward anymore its just a justification of 'so what do you want to do next'. Also if you're running a premade or doing a long running story arc then you cant really do most of the stuff you described so you end up just completely ignoring treasure or rewards for adventures. Why not buy everything with plot points? Why have attributes and levels and feats? D&D has gold in it. It can be a way to create plot opportunity, while preserving the fantasy currency that's built in to a number of places. I don't know why you couldn't do some of those things, or others that are setting-dependent, in a long-running story arc. Wouldn't that be the best context for them? E: I believe you can turn that off in roll20, no?
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Jun 7, 2017 00:27
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hot take: d&d hasn't needed gold since they nixed xp = gp
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Jun 7, 2017 00:34
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Subjunctive posted:Why not buy everything with plot points? Why have attributes and levels and feats? Man keep loving talking im right with ya. Brother Entropy posted:hot take: d&d hasn't needed gold since they nixed xp = gp Oh yeah totally. My point being they have this insanely fiddly poo poo for buying stuff down to the loving fractions of gold pieces and then it becomes completely irrelevant after your first adventure. So why the hell is it even a mechanic at this point?
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Jun 7, 2017 01:22
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Because it has always been thus.
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Jun 7, 2017 01:32
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You need gold pieces in D&D! To be specific, if you need expensive, specialised gear (eg: plate armour, warhorse) to effectively do your job, you need somewhere around 1,500-2,000 gold pieces. Then living modestly costs 365gp/year (I'd have to assume it's cheaper than that if you aren't living in inns and buying cooked meals several times a day, but whatever). Something like 20,000gp is "never have to work again if I don't want to" money. If you manage to acquire 75,000gp, you can live a wealthy lifestyle for fifty years. So what do you spend all those GPs on?
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Jun 7, 2017 02:10
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AlphaDog posted:You need gold pieces in D&D! To be specific, if you need expensive, specialised gear (eg: plate armour, warhorse) to effectively do your job, you need somewhere around 1,500-2,000 gold pieces. Then living modestly costs 365gp/year (I'd have to assume it's cheaper than that if you aren't living in inns and buying cooked meals several times a day, but whatever). Successful D&D parties should change the world around them. Take over and run keeps, turn small towns into prosperous cities, build their own towers and temples, etc.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:19
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admanb posted:Successful D&D parties should change the world around them. Take over and run keeps, turn small towns into prosperous cities, build their own towers and temples, etc. Sounds great! Where are the rules for doing that stuff?
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Jun 7, 2017 02:24
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AlphaDog posted:Sounds great! Where are the rules for doing that stuff? DMG.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:33
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MMAgCh posted:Did somebody say "gross awesome wizard pic"? My chain smoking non-bathing Necromancer was originally going to wear nothing but a tattered old robe. I have a better visual guide now.
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Jun 7, 2017 03:02
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Great, I'm gonna DM a game where the players build and run a small castle. Let's see what the rulebook has to say! "They'll need 50,000gp to build it, which will take 400 days. It costs 100gp per day to run it, and will require 50 skilled hirelings and 50 untrained hirelings". Welp, that's all my questions answered.
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Jun 7, 2017 03:03
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What does the DMG say about other world building, or plot NPC creation? I don't have mine to hand.
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Jun 7, 2017 03:04
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Subjunctive posted:What's the basic issue, then? Is it that casters have a downside not shared by martials? I admit that I have a hard time getting upset about that part. That martials just accumulate money forever and can't do jack poo poo with it because they're forced to rely on GM generosity and/or RNG to acquire magic armor and weapons instead of being able to concretely identify a goal and save up for it, while simultaneously making the acquisition of gold and treasure incredibly boring because again, there's nothing to spend it on. It's sort of lovely. Your "just do plot poo poo then!" line falls flat for a number of reasons already mentioned.
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Jun 7, 2017 03:10
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Having lots of GP means my party can stop their murder-hobo ways, and be what they've always wanted to be; Healthy, stealthy and full of wealthy murder-nobles -- The Aristocuts.
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Jun 7, 2017 03:14
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