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I couldn't believe it when Floral Pants Man turned out to be the traitor!
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Jun 7, 2017 16:05
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I had more conversations with Chihaya than Goro.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:07
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having the same dialogue about affinity readings doesn't count as multiple conversations Digirat posted:I couldn't believe it when Floral Pants Man turned out to be the traitor!
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Jun 7, 2017 16:10
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Alder posted:I liked the OP for P5 but let's talk about how disappointing all the other animated scenes were except for the pyramid escape moment. I disagree, the scene where Ryuji runs to get a life boat for the team while Shido's ship was exploding was also great.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:13
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Moltrey posted:Goro is great, love Goro. 
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Jun 7, 2017 16:15
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All the animated scenes were clearly made by a totally unrelated, much hornier team
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Jun 7, 2017 16:24
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Len posted:Dude no he's not a bad guy he just needs hugs Wrong, because he was coerced into killing people he retroactively deserves everything bad that can possibly happen to a child. That's how morality works
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Jun 7, 2017 16:24
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At least we can all take solace in the fact that the opening for the Red/Crimson/Golden version is a better opening that will feature all the phantom thieves dancing on the highway and dropkicking Morgana into a billboard
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Jun 7, 2017 16:25
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If you were rude to Goro in the cafe he should have said gently caress all yall on the cruise ship and made you fight like seven more consecutive boss battles
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Jun 7, 2017 16:27
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Automatonic Water posted:Wrong, because he was coerced into killing people he retroactively deserves everything bad that can possibly happen to a child. That's how morality works Ah yes, the part where he was coerced
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Jun 7, 2017 16:28
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Me, coming into the thread: Everyone else: mods please change my name to Goro Is Great Love Goro
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Jun 7, 2017 16:29
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Automatonic Water posted:If you were rude to Goro in the cafe he should have said gently caress all yall on the cruise ship and made you fight like seven more consecutive boss battles Look at this person, falling for the "Goro is a nice guy" meme.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:29
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Moltrey posted:plus Sojiro likes Pleasant Boy Goro so you are supposed to like Goro I like Akechi but I don't think devs made enough of a effort for him to spend time w/us in a friendly manner. He should get a real SL and hang-outs like everyone else before Nov. I'm just saying the game could be 25% better if we cut the Eggman/SIU director scenes down to 5% only and replaced them w/Akechi. drat, replace some of the nights where I had to go to sleep early with chatting with Akechi at Leblanc over coffee.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:45
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Automatonic Water posted:If you were rude to Goro in the cafe he should have said gently caress all yall on the cruise ship and made you fight like seven more consecutive boss battles Wouldn't have been any more difficult, guy's a wimp
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Jun 7, 2017 16:50
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Saint Freak posted:IT WAS A CUP ALL ALONG This stealing hearts thing is getting pretty meta.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:55
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Moltrey posted:Goro doesn't like the Phantom Thieves but he still comes off as friendly with honest intentions if not super stilted and awkward Like you completely blow up his spot on live TV and after he says he wants to talk with you more and he chills out at LeBlanc. I know plenty of people who didn't pick up on the Pancakes line. Now I know you are loving with us if you are saying he has honest intentions.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:16
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please take note of the phrase "comes off as" three words before, bubbale.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:21
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DalaranJ posted:This stealing hearts thing is getting pretty meta. I forgot that card suit fact. That is pretty cool.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:29
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it would actually be loving crazy if being a huge dick to Akechi made his boss fight nastier. once i got to him i immediately reloaded, fought ongyo-ki again and cut everyone out of my party to fight him 1v1 and that was basically the only challenge a boss fight had ever given, it'd be boss if he was even harder because i was a rude dude rebel teenager immediately after that fight Makoto still said we needed the power of teamwork to beat him. what we? what teamwork? me and futaba, you mean? get outta here girl
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Jun 7, 2017 21:05
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Utgardaloki posted:immediately after that fight Makoto still said we needed the power of teamwork to beat him. what we? what teamwork? me and futaba, you mean? get outta here girl I was fully expecting Futaba's uncle to be an awesome boss fight since you had to do it alone. But, nope. Chumped him in two hits. ChaosArgate posted:I wish the OP were as tightly edited as the one for P3FES because that's a drat good OP. The P5 tribute to it scratches the itch nicely, at least. I miss Lotus Juice. 
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Jun 7, 2017 23:29
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Don't we all.
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Jun 8, 2017 07:42
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Automatonic Water posted:Wrong, because he was coerced into killing people he retroactively deserves everything bad that can possibly happen to a child. That's how morality works when was he coerced? he went to his dad and went "hey i can kill your political enemies." thats like the opposite of coercion!!!
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Jun 8, 2017 07:47
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Roobanguy posted:when was he coerced? he went to his dad and went "hey i can kill your political enemies." Except during the horrible villain exposition, Akechi said he initially made Shido's enemies go psychotic, not dead. When Shido says he "taught Akechi how to use his power properly" he means taught Akechi to murder people. Shido then goes on to say he knew Akechi was a stupid kid that just wanted love and attention and used it to play him like a fiddle. Shido had yakuza connections and could have murdered Akechi at any time. In fact, he implies he will when Akechi shows hesitation about killing more people before the election. Goro isn't an innocent snowflake, but I swear some people didn't even read the dialogue. tom bob-ombadil fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 13:01
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It's a bit lost in the localization but there is a difference between mental shutdowns and making people go berserk. Goro can cause people to "lose the bonds of their heart" and make them act out like the food employees to take dick pics or whatever, or the subway driver at the beginning who apparently didn't kill anyone. Both of those guys are totally fine, they just don't remember what the hell happened for a spell. Shido directly says he taught Goro how to use his power for murder, and yeah there direct threats where Shido keeps Goro in line by implying murder At that point, what do you do at 17 years old? Goro made some bad choices.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:15
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Yeah like if I was a 15 year old that just got superpowers I would definitely think I was untouchable by any mundane rear end in a top hat but as it turns out, that is not true, and by exercising his power he actually ended up in an inescapable situation Well ok like he could have metaverse-killed Shido at some time but at that point orchestrating the ultimate act of dad humiliation was his life's work, which I don't necessarily blame him for, it's a niche medium that nobody has truly mastered edit: also Akechi would not escape cleanly from causing Shido's death unless his whole web of conspiracy bs had been untangled Automatonic Water fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 13:37
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However, Goro didn't just kill people, he "caught" criminals (or set up people to become criminals) to bolster his own image and reputation. It's not enough that he preyed upon others; it's that he cannibalized them for his own social advancement. Shido did the same thing, does the same thing. If you hate Shido, you can hate Goro for the same reason; both of them see other people as nothing more than a means to an end.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:43
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The truth of it is that since Shido doesn't have a sad backstory and Goro does, that level of Equal Crime just doesn't exist much. Goro is a teenager and was never properly socialized, of course he would use others to bring himself up. After a life with no one in the world in your corner, you'll take any chance to get ahead. As far as we know, Shido is just a loving rear end in a top hat so it's hard to feel much sympathy or empathy for how bad of a dude he is. If anything I see more the opposite. People will go on about how Goro is the worst and write Shido off as "yeah he's bad too" e: I swear I wasn't intended to start a But Actually debate about Goro for the millionth time, I just wanted to say that there's a difference between Goro's power and mental shutdowns cause I feel the script is unclear at times, don't @ me
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Jun 8, 2017 13:51
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Jesus Christ dude there really loving isn't He literally said that he went after people to help further his career. I think he even suggests he made people commit crimes just to "catch" them afterwards, or otherwise falsified things. He wasn't coerced he volunteered to do these things he was a willing agent when he murdered Futaba's mother
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Jun 8, 2017 13:56
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In general across most media I think it's a lot harder to sympathise with evil adults who should honestly know better and can be assumed to be mature enough to have a full understanding of morality and all that, compared to younger characters who might do similar things or have similar attitudes. Especially characters who are kinda portrayed as immature and not having ever really grown up. E:Like Goro is awful and garbage, evil basically. But also he was influenced to be worse and never really like matured from childhood or actually grew up because he was a fucker and never had an actual relationship with another human being, which I feel is important to developing a moral system or just being able to become a decent individual. And from what we know about Shido he's just completely awful because he's paranoid, egotistical, and power-hungry. He seems to have had a good and decent life but he's still a dude who wants to murder all his allies and become president over the dead bodies of his competitors. They're both garbage but I definitely feel like Shido is moreso. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 13:57
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SyntheticPolygon posted:In general across most media I think it's a lot harder to sympathise with evil adults who should honestly know better and can be assumed to be mature enough to have a full understanding of morality and all that, compared to younger characters who might do similar things or have similar attitudes. Especially characters who are kinda portrayed as immature and not having ever really grown up. Honestly, I usually find the opposite. People tend to be willing to go to bat for overtly villainous adults, while decrying younger ones or ones who seem immature. People tend to despise whininess or childishness in villains, while villains who seem like they're decisive tend to get a pass. Look at public sympathy and admiration for characters like Walter White, or Darth Vader, who are objectively monstrous because they're 'cool'. Hell people will often take the sides of villainous adults over heroic adolescents. See: public reaction to Severus Snape or the backlash against Harry Potter for being a moody teenager sometimes. I dunno, its a mixed bag not really a hard or fast rule I think.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:07
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Jesus Christ dude there really loving isn't Things like the subway incident are called 暴走事, apparently literally translated as Runaway Incidents, we know them as Psychotic Breakdowns, though I have seen people say things like Rampages would be a better translation. This is what Goro's power does, it's what he does to the Shadows he summons, it's what he does to himself, remember Ryuji saying "He made himself go psychotic!"? It removes all bonds on a person's heart and they just act out What we call mental shutdowns are known as 廃人化(apparently invalid/disabled person -ification). This is what happens when a person's Shadow is killed, see Okumura, the SIU Director, the principal and I think Ohya's partner who did not end up dying. Mental shutdowns aren't always fatal, both Wakaba and the principal walk into traffic after being shutdown where as the older two men just drop dead Goro does cause mental shutdowns, but that's not his power, it's something Shido taught him, Shido says as much. That's all my point was Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 14:10
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I didn't end up maxing out Sojiro, do we ever find out the connection between him and the friend he is doing a favor for by taking you in for a year? I may have just missed it.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:13
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Radish posted:I didn't end up maxing out Sojiro, do we ever find out the connection between him and the friend he is doing a favor for by taking you in for a year? I may have just missed it. No, it never comes up.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:15
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Zore posted:Honestly, I usually find the opposite. People tend to be willing to go to bat for overtly villainous adults, while decrying younger ones or ones who seem immature. An adult acting childish is different to a child acting childish I think. But yeah you're right. I guess I used the wrong word in saying it's easier to sympathise with them and I definitely didn't mean to suggest it was related to popularity, but I guess I find it easier to explain why a younger character would be morally bankrupt compared to an adult figure or something? Though this can also change depend on a villain's backstory or the story's context.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:16
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Radish posted:I didn't end up maxing out Sojiro, do we ever find out the connection between him and the friend he is doing a favor for by taking you in for a year? I may have just missed it. You don't but you should max him in your next play through anyway or just watch the scenes on youtube because they're great. From Sojiro's talk with Yusuke after Palace 2 it seems he might've just taken you in because he sympathised with Joker's situation rather than him actually being all that close to the customer.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:17
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Zore posted:No, it never comes up. SyntheticPolygon posted:You don't but you should max him in your next play through anyway or just watch the scenes on youtube because they're great. Yeah I really wanted to but got stuck at the level that was gated by a stat and then ran out of time.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:21
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akechi's only role models were Master Shake and Donald Trump, it's no wonder he's hosed up
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Jun 8, 2017 14:23
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SyntheticPolygon posted:An adult acting childish is different to a child acting childish I think. But yeah you're right. I guess I used the wrong word in saying it's easier to sympathise with them and I definitely didn't mean to suggest it was related to popularity, but I guess I find it easier to explain why a younger character would be morally bankrupt compared to an adult figure or something? Though this can also change depend on a villain's backstory or the story's context. Yeah, I mean I agree with you inasmuch as Persona 5 goes. Goro is definitely a more sympathetic and understandable villain than Shido. But a lot of it is hugely dependent on a number of factors. Goro gets a ton more screentime, for instance, and has humanizing scenes. Shido only ever interacts with the cast in an overtly villainous manner and there's never a real face to face confrontation with him and any of the party because his beef with them isn't really personal at all.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:25
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Zore posted:Yeah, I mean I agree with you inasmuch as Persona 5 goes. Goro is definitely a more sympathetic and understandable villain than Shido. But a lot of it is hugely dependent on a number of factors. Goro gets a ton more screentime, for instance, and has humanizing scenes. Shido only ever interacts with the cast in an overtly villainous manner and there's never a real face to face confrontation with him and any of the party because his beef with them isn't really personal at all. I mean, we literally spent hours traipsing through Shido's heart and it definitively concludes that the man has zero redeeming factors, his entire guiding philosophy is "gently caress everyone who isn't me and people I can manipulate." Giving the incredibly shallow villain more screentime would irritate more than humanize.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:30
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SyntheticPolygon posted:From Sojiro's talk with Yusuke after Palace 2 it seems he might've just taken you in because he sympathised with Joker's situation rather than him actually being all that close to the customer. The only person Sojiro was close enough to respond to such a request would have been Wakaba. Which is an interesting theory, but I don't think there's any in game support for it.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:55
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