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If you care about someone then spend time with them and take them out for a beer. If you don't care about them then don't waste time and money trying to keep up pretences by buying them stupid poo poo that they don't want.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:47
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If you're worried about your friends and family having too much crap, you could just do things for them or take them places instead. Even if you give them an  economically inefficient gift, don't forget to factor in the difference in marginal utility; all else being equal, if you have or make more money than them, any wealth transfer is positive-sum.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:48
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:"Bad thing has been done before" doesn't mean it's okay to make a bad thing easier to do or more appealing. My point, as indicated by my reference to causality, is that AFAIK there's no evidence that Snapchat had those effects. I'm more than happy to hear of evidence to the contrary, though; I like to learn.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:49
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Old men generally have all the material crap they need, and patriarchal hangups mean that adult kids giving money to their elders is more likely to insult than please. So give nothing. Phone your dad. Buy him a meal or a drink if you live nearby (go to Olive Garden if you must.)
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Jun 8, 2017 21:01
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Subjunctive posted:My point, as indicated by my reference to causality, is that AFAIK there's no evidence that Snapchat had those effects. I'm more than happy to hear of evidence to the contrary, though; I like to learn. Do you feel that this inquisition is on-topic in the Bad With Money thread? Follow-up question: Are your googling fingers broken? BarbarianElephant posted:Old men generally have all the material crap they need, and patriarchal hangups mean that adult kids giving money to their elders is more likely to insult than please. So give nothing. Phone your dad. Buy him a meal or a drink if you live nearby (go to Olive Garden if you must.) I agree, experiential and consumable gifts are best in general, but especially for older people who may see accumulating more stuff as burdensome.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:04
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Do you feel that this inquisition is on-topic in the Bad With Money thread? Follow-up question: Are your googling fingers broken? No less so than yours? Happy to take it to PMs if you'd like. My googling fingers may be broken, because I can't find anything supporting the assertion that Snapchat's filter increased accidents, nor that their removal reduced them.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:07
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Do you feel that this inquisition is on-topic in the Bad With Money thread?  Why leave money in your 403b? It could go up or down! Just take the hit and BUY A HOUSE! Stop throwing away money on rent! https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6g1p0j/looking_to_buy_a_house_how_bad_of_an_idea_is_it/[/quote posted:short background: wife is a stay-at-home mom w/ our 20mo old. i work full-time (and full-time student if that matters) making 110k/yr. Both have 700+ credit scores, debt ratio fairly low. Luckily they seemed receptive to it being a horrible idea.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:09
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There are a few good strategies to buying gifts for people you don't know well enough to feel confident that you're nailing it. As someone who is difficult to shop for, I know a lot about this. (my hobbies are specialized enough that nobody has any idea what to get for them, and stuff tends to be too expensive for gift territory) As mentioned in the research, the key value of a gift comes as both cash equivalent value, and the sentiment. One is to choose something you already know they value, but something a better than what they'd get for themselves. This is easy to do with fancy booze, just buy something on the next tier up from what they usually buy. This also triggers some loss aversion in the recipient. They value the $80 bottle of whiskey at $80, but probably wouldn't buy it for themselves at that price nor would they now trade that bottle in hand for $80 in cash. Perfect! Or just donate to a charity on their behalf. Make it one that's meaningful to them, give them a card that says something like "I know you feel like you have enough stuff, so we donated $50 instead to [CHARITY THAT SUPPORTS CAUSE YOU CARE ABOUT]"
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Jun 8, 2017 21:10
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Yeah, charity is the way to go. It's what I always do for my dad when I give money to my siblings.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:11
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Subjunctive posted:No less so than yours? Happy to take it to PMs if you'd like. If you feel the need to spam my inbox with the effluvium of your personality disorder I don't suppose I can stop you, but I'll probably just delete it unread. Maybe you could find some other thread to defend the honor of funny picture apps in. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 8, 2017 21:12
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Do you feel that this inquisition is on-topic in the Bad With Money thread? holy poo poo the needle on my irony meter is now a fan
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Jun 8, 2017 21:12
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Motronic posted:No, it's not. You're right, mixed up individual non-Roth IRA and Roth 401k.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:13
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:If you feel the need to spam my inbox with the effluvium of your personality disorder I don't suppose I can stop you, but I'll probably just delete it unread. Maybe you could find some other thread to defend the honor of funny picture apps in. What the gently caress are you talking about? I just asked why you believe what you do, because you contradicted my belief and I thought -- perhaps naively -- that there was something behind your position that I hadn't encountered. I don't know why you suddenly became hostile when I did so.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:13
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Ghostnuke posted:holy poo poo the needle on my irony meter is now a fan  loving goons. Subjunctive posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? I just asked why you believe what you do, because you contradicted my belief and I thought -- perhaps naively -- that there was something behind your position that I hadn't encountered. I don't know why you suddenly became hostile when I did so. Jesus loving christ, STOP. I DON'T CARE. I DON'T CARE ABOUT SNAPCHAT. I DON'T CARE IF YOU CARE ABOUT SNAPCHAT. GO THE gently caress OUTSIDE.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:13
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that seems pretty "beep boop people are efficient robots!" that ignores a whole lot of social and cultural context around gift-giving. I know a lot of economists are known for forgetting the idea of human interaction not based purely on monetary gain, but that almost seems like parody.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:47
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Jesus loving christ, STOP. I DON'T CARE. I DON'T CARE ABOUT SNAPCHAT. I DON'T CARE IF YOU CARE ABOUT SNAPCHAT. GO THE gently caress OUTSIDE. I totally understand why you're on edge after the inquisition a couple pages ago but I really don't see any reason to think Subjunctive isn't making conversation in good faith, which is... the point of this thread? If you'll look back he even took your side in that debate.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:47
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Eldred posted:I totally understand why you're on edge after the inquisition a couple pages ago but I really don't see any reason to think Subjunctive isn't making conversation in good faith, which is... the point of this thread? If you'll look back he even took your side in that debate. Then make a loving thread about it and keep him busy for a while. My inbox would thank you.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:57
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:So Father's Day is coming up, and we need to get gifts for several men in our lives. I suggested to my wife that we dispense with the "try to guess what they want" bullshit and give cash, because receiving cash they have license to get a thing they wanted but we couldn't select. Everyone in our family thinks they're really good at selecting and giving gifts, and they're not - they're terrible and we accumulate crap like nobody's business. BWM and GWL? I dunno, family gets weird and touchy about that poo poo. Fortunately, my family is very cash oriented - we're all impossibly hard to shop for. The one exception is my MIL insists on getting me stuff but she really likes to read and I really like to read. So far that has been an okay compromise.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:28
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This discussion is doing my head in. I don't even buy my Dad a Father's Day gift, let alone random people I know who happen to be fathers. 
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Jun 8, 2017 22:52
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh my god, he could have killed her. Did she literally try to set him on fire? It just doesn't make sense to me. After driving this much for a year it was clear they would have to buy the car out at the end of the lease, so any maintenance issues were going to have to be dealt with. And he was riding in or driving the car a lot too so he could have died when something failed. She really did try to set him on fire, the police were called, no charges were filed and he moved out after that. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
If they were willing to pay the same price for the gifts they would already own something similar. It isn't even a good measure of the economical value of gift giving. A better question is if a cash gift, or no gift would have a better outcome for all involved. Buying a gift for someone that they wouldn't normally buy for themselves is part of gift giving. And social institutions should not be judged primarily on economic value. You are trading money for social capital.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:55
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lampey posted:She really did try to set him on fire, the police were called, no charges were filed and he moved out after that.  How...how is that just a footnote in your initial post?
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Jun 8, 2017 22:58
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Inept posted:
With no charges filed, that's the least BWM part of the story.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:59
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Noctone posted:This discussion is doing my head in. I don't even buy my Dad a Father's Day gift, let alone random people I know who happen to be fathers. Same. As far as cash and gift card, I always find gift cards nicer because it forces me to use them on something I wouldn't buy normally. Otherwise, most cash just goes to groceries...
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Jun 8, 2017 23:42
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Inept posted:
Who among us, in a fit of passion, has not tried to set another person ablaze?
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Jun 9, 2017 00:51
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Solice Kirsk posted:Who among us, in a fit of passion, has not tried to set another person ablaze? It's even in the chorus of an Adele song, "I set fire to Lorraine..."
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Jun 9, 2017 00:58
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Nm personal story
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Jun 9, 2017 01:32
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And Adele is amazing with money. She turned the earthy voice of Hungarian Throat singer into a multimillion dollar empire!
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Jun 9, 2017 01:35
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brugroffil posted:that seems pretty "beep boop people are efficient robots!" that ignores a whole lot of social and cultural context around gift-giving. I know a lot of economists are known for forgetting the idea of human interaction not based purely on monetary gain, but that almost seems like parody. A lot of the social ideas we have about gift giving are created or at least heavily influenced by consumer driven industries who profit off convincing people at regular intervals that they are obligated to buy stuff for people for social acceptability. Gift giving can be a wonderful way to express care for someone or for other social interaction, but a lot of "holiday gift expectations" are set by industries that profit off them, so there is merit in thinking about how much of the gifts we give others are just wasted money. Everyone is familiar with getting gifts they don't really like but now feel obligated to keep, or feeling obligated to buy something for someone because it's a specific day and not really knowing what to get so buying whatever.
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Jun 9, 2017 09:23
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Enfys posted:A lot of the social ideas we have about gift giving are created or at least heavily influenced by consumer driven industries who profit off convincing people at regular intervals that they are obligated to buy stuff for people for social acceptability. A friend from work was leaving and moving to a different cities. As customary, all of her friends organised a card and a gift. We knew she needed the money, we know she didn't need more crap to have to relocate THREE THOUSAND KILOMETRES as the crow flies. But the bosses weren't happy when we shared our idea of giving her cash and a card, they were fairy insistent that it wouldn't be proper to give her cash but a gift. gently caress. What to do. We ended up giving her a $30 wallet that looked a bit expensive and an empty prepaid visa card with cash hidden in the wallet. She used the money to buy a new car. annnd... some content: quote:Hello! I am 23 y/o male and I recently started a life insurance policy. I'm paying about $100 a month for this. I felt pressured by the sales guy to do this, and he did a pretty good job of talking me into it, but is this something I really need? I'm a healthy guy with no pressing medical conditions. quote:Do you have dependents? No? You do not need life insurance. quote:I didn't think about it like that... what about the money I've already put into it?
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Jun 9, 2017 09:44
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Suspicious Lump posted:Jesus gently caress, gifts. There's a BWM. A slight derail but here goes: Moving to Perth, was she?
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Jun 9, 2017 10:53
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from a guy who's been obsessed with buying a Tesla Model 3 for years:quote:I guess I should mention I could ask for a delay, and to be pushed back in line, but I want to get the car prior to the end of 2017 so I can immediately take the tax credit, and move somewhere across the country, using that $7500 tax credit as a down payment for a house.
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Jun 9, 2017 12:02
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Suspicious Lump posted:A friend from work was leaving and moving to a different cities. As customary, all of her friends organised a card and a gift. We knew she needed the money, we know she didn't need more crap to have to relocate THREE THOUSAND KILOMETRES as the crow flies. But the bosses weren't happy when we shared our idea of giving her cash and a card, they were fairy insistent that it wouldn't be proper to give her cash but a gift. gently caress. What to do. Crikey. The office whip-round for people leaving at my workplaces would result in enough for a nice dinner, not a new car. Where do you work, Goldman Sachs?
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Jun 9, 2017 14:09
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BarbarianElephant posted:Crikey. The office whip-round for people leaving at my workplaces would result in enough for a nice dinner, not a new car. Where do you work, Goldman Sachs? Maybe she just had like twenty thousand friends who all gave a dollar
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Jun 9, 2017 14:15
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ate all the Oreos posted:Maybe she just had like twenty thousand friends who all gave a dollar The Myspace/Facebook tendency to add literally everyone else on their friends list finally paid off.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:41
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brugroffil posted:from a guy who's been obsessed with buying a Tesla Model 3 for years: haha this is truly excellent jesus christ
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Jun 9, 2017 14:46
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Owns a Tesla Buys a 38k house
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Jun 9, 2017 14:52
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ate all the Oreos posted:Maybe she just had like twenty thousand friends who all gave a dollar For some reason that reminds me of the Powerball meme last year that if they split the $1.3 billion jackpot across everyone in the US, we'd all get $4.33 million each and poverty would be solved... ignoring the fact that in reality we'd get 4 dollars and 33 cents each if you actually divided the numbers correctly. Then there's the problem of inflation if everyone really did get a lot of money all together (such as with some Universal Basic Income proposals). Then there was the beautiful counter-meme of "The Force Awakens pulls in $1.7 billion at the box office. That means each of us spent $5.66 million seeing it".
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Jun 9, 2017 14:55
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Nail Rat posted:Owns a Tesla This is the BWM thread; he's not going to be anywhere near that responsible. At the very best he'll take a 3.5% FHA loan; if we're lucky he'll get a zero-down mortgage and use that for his origination fee.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:58
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This might cross into GWM territory, but my boss is having an American Girl Doll theme for her Daughter's 5th birthday party and requesting pre-paid Mastercard and Visa giftcards only as gifts. Her daughter wants to go to the American Girl store and pick up a Doll and some clothes as her presents. The Doll + 3 Outfits that she wants are about $650.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This might cross into GWM territory, but my boss is having an American Girl Doll theme for her Daughter's 5th birthday party and requesting pre-paid Mastercard and Visa giftcards only as gifts. Her daughter wants to go to the American Girl store and pick up a Doll and some clothes as her presents. I hope someone robs the party.
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Jun 9, 2017 15:00
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