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Bring back last year's engine.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:38
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wicka posted:It puts Honda in a very difficult position, because either they rush the upgrade and risk totally blowing it again, or they wait too long and force McLaren to drop them. I would argue that unless the engine is ready right away they've blown it either way. Brown's point that this is a fast moving sport really drives home that Honda needs to be constantly bringing strong updates to have a chance at a championship. Waiting a third of a year to fix a completely broken engine is absolutely unacceptable for a works engine manufacturer.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:40
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wicka posted:They have a far, far, FAR better chance of scoring points with Honda than they do with a hastily retrofitted Mercedes engine. Ross "The Boss" Brawn would like to have a word with you
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Jun 9, 2017 17:41
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Zak's comments to the media definitely need posting.quote:Brown made it clear that Honda's way of working, using in-house personnel at its F1 R&D base in a remote part of Japan, has not paid off. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-mclaren-honda-needs-change-916089/
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Jun 9, 2017 17:42
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GramCracker posted:Ross "The Boss" Brawn would like to have a word with you That car would've been so much better with the engine it was designed for.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:43
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1500quidporsche posted:I would argue that unless the engine is ready right away they've blown it either way. Brown's point that this is a fast moving sport really drives home that Honda needs to be constantly bringing strong updates to have a chance at a championship. Waiting a third of a year to fix a completely broken engine is absolutely unacceptable for a works engine manufacturer. I'd disagree with that. With the ridiculous penalties for changing engine parts, and the amount of work that needs to be done, it makes sense to do it all in one fell swoop.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:44
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I also think Brown would not be doing this if the word from Honda was anything other than "this update is going to be mediocre or a disaster"
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Jun 9, 2017 17:45
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wicka posted:I'd disagree with that. With the ridiculous penalties for changing engine parts, and the amount of work that needs to be done, it makes sense to do it all in one fell swoop. They've gone through five engines. They're working to make the world's best typewriter while everyone else is making smartphones.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:45
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1500quidporsche posted:I also think Brown would not be doing this if the word from Honda was anything other than "this update is going to be mediocre or a disaster" Eh, it seems more likely that they're not telling him much of anything. "It's not ready and we don't know when it will be ready."
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Jun 9, 2017 17:54
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learnincurve posted:Oh gently caress YOU Lewis, he was asked to simplify something for the fans and said "naw man I don't do that because I can't be bothered ha ha ha" and then when asked a technical question said "nah man you wouldn't understand" What a class act. Lol... keep it up Lewis, alienate even those delusional enough to still support you. wicka posted:I'd disagree with that. With the ridiculous penalties for changing engine parts, and the amount of work that needs to be done, it makes sense to do it all in one fell swoop. Didn't they change the rules for penalties so teams couldn't take advantage of it like that anymore? I can see Brown's comments above make sense... but it's still a bit out of place for McLaren to make demands on Honda to change their corporate culture. They knew what they were getting into when they signed up (largely), and for them to start telling Honda (via the media) how to do their job now is a pretty obvious indication that the relationship is hosed and there's no going back. I still don't think they'll have any better results by changing mid season, although they might be able to get a head start on next year by writing the rest of 2017 off as testing with the new manufacturer, which has worked well in the past for teams.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:04
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If they are serious about challenging next year with a customer engine sticking it out with Honda and throwing maximum resources behind the 2018 car is the best bet.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:11
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Maybe they should just start blatantly cheating just to finish in the points like who's even going to be looking and who's going to care.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:13
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Powershift posted:Maybe they should just start blatantly cheating just to finish in the points like who's even going to be looking and who's going to care. Sauber. Sauber who is soon to become the works Honda team when McLaren split at the end of the year. Sauber is going to be drinking from that Honda money chalice and won't give a gently caress how poo poo the engines are cause they'll be raking in the dough with the minimalist of expectations.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:15
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wicka posted:On reflection you're probably right...Alonso said he wants to be winning by September in order to commit to McLaren, but Brown just came out and said they need to make an engine decision by the end of July in order to be adequately prepared for 2018. It puts Honda in a very difficult position, because either they rush the upgrade and risk totally blowing it again, or they wait too long and force McLaren to drop them. I would still argue that, when Honda takes their time and does things right, their upgrades have been effective. But I certainly don't think an upgrade of this magnitude, released before they're absolutely ready, has a particularly great chance of success. Given that it's more likely that Tyrrell Racing get on the podium than Honda scoring a top 10, it's safe to assume Alonso isn't coming back. He was just looking for polite way to say that he's done with McLaren. I can't see McLaren putting the resources into anything related to Honda in 2018. They need to just call the last three years a sunk cost and start over as a customer engine.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:15
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I for one am happy for the return of Spirit as the Honda works team in 2018.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:17
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daslog posted:Given that it's more likely that Tyrrell Racing get on the podium than Honda scoring a top 10, it's safe to assume Alonso isn't coming back. He was just looking for polite way to say that he's done with McLaren. I can't see McLaren putting the resources into anything related to Honda in 2018. They need to just call the last three years a sunk cost and start over as a customer engine. McLaren scoring points this year is an absolute certainty, to be honest, and I don't see what better option Alonso realistically has in F1.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:18
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wicka posted:McLaren scoring points this year is an absolute certainty, to be honest, and I don't see what better option Alonso realistically has in F1. A turn 1 pile-up taking out most of the field and both McLarens escape it by starting from the pits after replacing bits after qualifying.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:20
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wicka posted:McLaren scoring points this year is an absolute certainty, to be honest, and I don't see what better option Alonso realistically has in F1. Big Nando and Our Kimi at Haas.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:21
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Big Nando and Our Kimi at Haas. Oh dear god yes
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Jun 9, 2017 18:22
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Big Nando and Our Kimi at Haas. #teamgrampa
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Jun 9, 2017 18:23
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That's the thing though the biggest competitors for McLaren is the engine. If this was the USGP 2005 all over again and it was just the two McLarens instead of Ferraris, Jordans, and Minardis we'd have a 1-2 Jordan, a Minardi podium and two remaining cars on the back of tow trucks.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:24
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I don't think it's ever happened but what if you finished in a points paying position BUT also were lapped so many times the car ended up being not classified? Would the points still stand?
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Jun 9, 2017 18:34
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Big Nando and Our Kimi at Haas. That's not a better option, though.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:35
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Human Grand Prix posted:I don't think it's ever happened but what if you finished in a points paying position BUT also were lapped so many times the car ended up being not classified? Would the points still stand? I think to get to that point you'd have to be so outside the 107% qualifying time that they'd just not let you race.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:37
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Vodafone McLaren Mercedes with Our Jense was the best version of post-2000 McLaren.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:42
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Human Grand Prix posted:I don't think it's ever happened but what if you finished in a points paying position BUT also were lapped so many times the car ended up being not classified? Would the points still stand? The regulations say the top 10 finishers score points, and if you are not classified then you are not considered to be a finisher.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:54
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The TSN feed is hosed as hell right now. It's the commercials sound but showing the guys in the commentary room taking their break and chatting and stuff and video markers and poo poo.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:55
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1500quidporsche posted:If they are serious about challenging next year with a customer engine sticking it out with Honda and throwing maximum resources behind the 2018 car is the best bet. Surely time is their biggest constraint in that scenario and perhaps its worthwhile to see if they can Frankenstein a merc engine into their current chassis? McLaren have been pretty confident in their chassis performance if it just had a power unit that worked. At least they'd be able to see where the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole and what changes they will need to make in 2018. I don't think they'll score a point all year with Honda.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:59
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Anyone who sincerely thinks that McLaren should try to retrofit the Mercedes engine into their current chassis...just holy poo poo, you guys. No.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:02
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Human Grand Prix posted:I don't think it's ever happened but what if you finished in a points paying position BUT also were lapped so many times the car ended up being not classified? Would the points still stand? There was that insane race (Monaco?) where the two lead cars ended up in the pits and then the new lead car had to do three extra laps to win, the cars in the pits came 2nd and 3rd because they had completed 90% of the race distance. So you would have to be 11 laps down on a 100 lap race not to be classified.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:05
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I'd like to see Alonso in the Haas.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:06
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Sky said Nando's problem in FP1 was that the engine dicided to widdle it's hydraulics.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:08
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Astoundingly Ugly Baby posted:I'd like to see Alonso in the Haas. I'd like to be in Alonso's Haas.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:10
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Kelly 
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Jun 9, 2017 19:10
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Grosjean is awful
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Jun 9, 2017 19:13
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wicka posted:
Counterpoint: Brawn won both world championships with a hastily retrofitted Mercedes engine
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Jun 9, 2017 19:14
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wicka posted:Anyone who sincerely thinks that McLaren should try to retrofit the Mercedes engine into their current chassis...just holy poo poo, you guys. No. If they decide to make the switch, they gain nothing by watching the Honda engine fail the rest of the year. If retrofitting the Merc is a total disaster they at least learn something for 2018. If the midfield competition wasn't so tight, they could probably get a Honda-powered car to limp into the points a couple of times this season. I just don't see that happening.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:14
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wicka posted:I'd like to be in Alonso's Haas. 1500quidporsche posted:Kelly
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Jun 9, 2017 19:15
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Tsaedje posted:Counterpoint: Brawn won both world championships with a hastily retrofitted Mercedes engine SA's character limit is too low to list all the different ways in which this comparison is dumb and wrong.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:15
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wuffles posted:If they decide to make the switch, they gain nothing by watching the Honda engine fail the rest of the year. If retrofitting the Merc is a total disaster they at least learn something for 2018. I honestly don't understand where the confusion is here. Retrofitting a modern F1 car with a different engine, halfway through the season, is fundamentally retarded and pointless. There is literally nothing to gain whatsoever. No one would ever do this.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:17
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