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ilkhan posted:I'm still in camp "the cbr500 or a 650 is a better first bike." Sagebrush posted:That's not what most serious highly-skilled riders would say. The entry class to MotoGP racing, Moto3, uses 250cc single-cylinder motorcycles and I guarantee any of those riders on a bog-standard Ninja 250 would be faster than any street rider on a 500/650-class bike anywhere except a runway. If you want to ride well, you need to be able to safely push your bike to its limits to learn how it behaves in that envelope, and you need something small to do that. Learning how to ride properly on a 650 is not some crazy thing, especially on public roads. If I was learning how to be a MotoGP rider on a track it would make sense to start on a 250cc, but if you're hell bent on dragging knee on the street you should just have a head-on with a Porsche.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:18
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Say what you will, that dude got some sick hangtime.
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Jun 4, 2017 05:31
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and then some really sick downtime
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Jun 4, 2017 05:53
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concise posted:I'm happy I went this route and got a Ninja 650 ABS last year. It's fantastic and I'd buy it again over a 300, but I'm a fatgoon (6' 200lb). Good job, I guess? It's been discussed a bunch already but fwiw I think the reasons you start on a 250 vs a 650 are: 1. Cheaper. 2. With a ninja there's a ridiculous amount of information on the internet which makes learning to wrench even easier. 3. It's more forgiving of your bad decisions. Simply by being unable to accelerate as fast, you're not forcing your already overworked brain to make decisions more quickly. 4. Easy resale. Everybody thinks they're special and that 3 doesn't apply to them because they're some kind of savant but they're not and most folks would benefit from learning on a 250 at first. That's not to say you won't be just fine on a 650. You might. It's just that in terms of probability and stacking the deck in your favor at the time you're most likely to crash, the 250 is better for you.
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Jun 4, 2017 12:46
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People have had hayabusas and zx14's as their first bike and lived to tell about it. Still doesn't mean it was a good idea.
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Jun 4, 2017 14:21
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My first bike was a 1973 Ossa 175 Enduro. It was a great bike to learn on. Took all kinds of abuse and it didn't matter if I dropped it either. Honestly probably the best bike to learn on is an old beater.
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Jun 4, 2017 15:22
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If you want to start with a 650 whatever, but if your reason is that a 300 is too slow, you're wrong. I mean, this new guy got a brand new 300, rode it for maybe 2 weeks, and traded it for a brand new 650. He's like cycle asylum beginner dog pile bingo.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:06
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Rojo_Sombrero posted:My first bike was a 1973 Ossa 175 Enduro. It was a great bike to learn on. Took all kinds of abuse and it didn't matter if I dropped it either. Honestly probably the best bike to learn on is an old beater. Yes, the objectively best bike to learn to ride on is a dirt bike and learn it offroad. You can/will dump it, and you learn how to deal with slides, loss of traction, bumps, ruts, picking a bike up, starting a dropped bike, and everything that a street rider also may need to deal with but so few are really prepared for. Dirt learning best learning.
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Jun 4, 2017 17:57
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I'm probably not getting rid of my Rebel 250 for a few more years - it'll go 85 on the freeway if I wait a minute, and I can touch toe from both sides of the seat at once or have one foot down flat as opposed to literally having my rear end off the seat to get either foot down at all. Keeps up just fine in Oregon. Thinking of buying a really clean-looking Honda Elite 250 with 19k miles though. Still need a family zip-around thing for errands/spouse/roommate now that the Metropolitan is no longer a thing, and I always kind of wanted one. It's under 1000 and looks like it's been maintained well, and all the displays work on the dash, runs great as far as I know. I was thinking of looking at it today - what should I be looking for on something that old? Scooters are a pretty good share-bike for us because two of the riders are 6'2" and scooters give me a lot more leeway as far as leg length. I don't have to be on the seat to stop the thing safely.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:29
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PaintVagrant posted:I'm not ded, but my spinal discs are
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Jun 4, 2017 20:18
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I started on a 650 and managed but in retrospect it was a little too tall and heavy and I think that was a burden for the first one or two years I rode it.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:25
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I sincerely think everyone should start off on a 250 and the UK's system, while badly flawed, is a good thing in that it forces you to run a punishing 13hp midgetbike for a long time. Nothing teaches you about proper cornering, using the brakes, momentum etc than riding something slower than a car. It just teaches you to ride, period. Bigger engines with more power are just the lazy way out. Literally every competent, skilled rider I've ever spoken to feels this way regardless of what they started out on, and the ones who learned on bigger bikes all acknowledge it was a waste of time and just held them back.
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Jun 5, 2017 00:17
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Slavvy posted:I sincerely think everyone should start off on a 250 and the UK's system, while badly flawed, is a good thing in that it forces you to run a punishing 13hp midgetbike for a long time. Nothing teaches you about proper cornering, using the brakes, momentum etc than riding something slower than a car. It just teaches you to ride, period. Bigger engines with more power are just the lazy way out. I'm a halfway decent rider at this point, and I bought a 450 EXC-F for my re-entry to dirt bikes, and let me tell you, that was a loving stupid idea. I'm having fun, but I'm also slamming my pretty new dirtbike into the ground over and over and it's taking me a pile more time to learn the basics. Hopped on my buddy's Beta RS-F 125 and just cruised on up some stuff that was "you better be on your loving game on that clutch lever" on my 450. Also looped my 450 trying to do a slow hillclimb in second, got a little too far back, it suddenly hooked, and whelp, there the fucker goes. 250/300 is fine, but unfortunately no new rider has any context for what good riding looks like, so what the gently caress are you gonna do. Yell at them on the internet, I guess.
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Jun 5, 2017 00:47
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Z3n posted:250/300 is fine, but unfortunately no new rider has any context for what good riding looks like, so what the gently caress are you gonna do. Yell at them on the internet, I guess. Pretty much. I'm rolling an ancient 400exc for my first dedicated offroad bike and despite having really lazy torque and friendly delivery it still feels like too much, but 250F's feel too slow to my road-accustomed butt-dyno because I'm stupid. Best fun I've ever had was a 200EXC; tiny and light like a 125 but with much-needed low-end grunt. I have no loving clue how people manage 450's and 520's on the dirt; I feel about them the way I used to feel about literbikes on tarmac.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:16
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I mean, I commuted on bicycles for years before ever getting something with an engine. Got a bunch of stupid crashes out of the way on pedal power. It also taught me how to ride in traffic. Motorcycle commuting has been a breeze compared to bicycle commuting
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Jun 5, 2017 01:22
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My first street bike was a Yamaha FJ-1200. I rode it back and forth to high school and work, and occasionally on a date. I was technically underage for the cc's but never got pulled over by the cops. drat school changed the location of the student bike park which separated the students from the teachers and my big-bore stood out amongst the scooters, then the jerk rear end principal made a rule going into my junior year that students were limited to 250cc or less motorcycles for transportation. Fuckers. I got around it though. Now I've rode dirt bikes since age 5 and owned 250cc and a mighty CR-480, so It wasn't like the FJ was the first experience out of the gate.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:57
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sounds like that principle was just jealous of your power. Kids have no issues killing themselves with 250cc I saw a fz-07 behind me today and I thought it was grom with funny mirrors. The guy riding it was just huge. The 2 tone color schemes the fz-07s have are really nice in person.
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Jun 5, 2017 02:06
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Any thoughts on long term reliability for the Ducati Desert Sled? Like, it's supposed to be pretty good in the dirt, but does that come with 500 mile service intervals and the mirrors falling off every day?
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Jun 8, 2017 18:43
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What's your definition of long term reliability? If you want something that's just changing the oil as scheduled every X,XXX miles, checking valves every 15K or so, chains/sprockets/tires as needed, then buy Japanese. Ask the dealer to quote you the 15K service on that bike, or whenever it needs its first belt change, and decide if you 1) want to keep the bike that long 2) pay for that service or are comfortable doing it yourself and just paying the dealer to reset the service warning light on the dash. Ducatis are way more reliable than they used to be but they still have little poo poo that crops up occasionally that will require waiting one or two weeks on a part from Italy that may or may not fix the problem. Seems to vary by model (e.g. the fuel level sensors in Multistradas are on revision D and they still seem to break). That bike hasn't been around very long, so I doubt all the quirks have been found.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:56
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Any thoughts on long term reliability for the Ducati Desert Sled? Like, it's supposed to be pretty good in the dirt, but does that come with 500 mile service intervals and the mirrors falling off every day? Taking it to the dirt may change things, though.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:17
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The thing is, I'm buying a new commuter to replace my old CB500X. My commute involves freeway, twisty mountains, and long dirt roads. The list is currently another CB500X (it wasn't perfect, and it wasn't super in the dirt, but it was dead reliable), a Versys X 300 (probably better for the dirt than the Honda, but only 300 ccs isn't great on the freeway for long periods of time, as I've discovered riding my friend's), a Triumph Street Scrambler, and maybe this Ducati. The Ducati is appealing because of suspension travel.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:31
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Any thoughts on long term reliability for the Ducati Desert Sled? Like, it's supposed to be pretty good in the dirt, but does that come with 500 mile service intervals and the mirrors falling off every day? Sort of relevant. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwtWRc5ikMs Mr. Wiggles posted:The thing is, I'm buying a new commuter to replace my old CB500X. My commute involves freeway, twisty mountains, and long dirt roads. The list is currently another CB500X (it wasn't perfect, and it wasn't super in the dirt, but it was dead reliable), a Versys X 300 (probably better for the dirt than the Honda, but only 300 ccs isn't great on the freeway for long periods of time, as I've discovered riding my friend's), a Triumph Street Scrambler, and maybe this Ducati. The Ducati is appealing because of suspension travel. Did you ask this a while ago too? What do you mean by dirt road? Just a flat dirt road? How much freeway? Why not a 701sm?
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Jun 8, 2017 19:36
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Kind of. I've been trying to figure out a new commuter for a bit now, driving the jeep in the meantime. No 701 cause it's like 70-80 minutes each way.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:50
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I fail to see how the ducati will be any better on the freeway than the 701. The 690 is lovely on the freeway except for all that drat wind. Even then it's ok, but I'd get a windscreen if I were riding any naked on the highway every day for 80 minutes. VStrom?
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Jun 8, 2017 19:58
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I think I would get the Africa Twin instead of the Ducati at that price. Honda reliability and I imagine it's good at dirt (for a bike that size) and good at commuting like the other big adv bikes. I also think it looks super cool. Vstrom is a good idea too.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:07
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Duc seat is comfier than the 701. When the Africa Twin came out I was 100% "gently caress yes I'm buying one tomorrow." Then I went to the dealer and tried to get on one and I'm just too drat short in the leg - same problem as the old KLR. Like, tippy toeing one side only (29 inch inseam). VStrom is great, but I haven't been able to find one at either Suzuki dealer in the area, hence why it's not on my shortlist.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:45
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I think I'm gonna pick up an early 2000's KLR 650 with about 15k miles in Seattle for about 3k. Do I have blessings?
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Jun 8, 2017 20:53
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Get a 701. It's fine on longer rides and on the highway.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:55
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Duc seat is comfier than the 701. Seat Concepts are cheap and super comfortable. Don't not get an awesome bike because of something so easily changed.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:07
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Duc seat is comfier than the 701. Don't forget the Hyperstrada.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:09
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vs Dinosaurs posted:I think I'm gonna pick up an early 2000's KLR 650 with about 15k miles in Seattle for about 3k. Do I have blessings? Seems just a little expensive. Try for $2500? If you're getting your first bike or are not generally handy, I think clutchpuck will come look at Buells with you if you asked nicely and bought him beer. https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/mcy/6163423859.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/mcy/6158724581.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/mcy/6142184085.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/mcy/6159807906.html https://bellingham.craigslist.org/mcy/6106859804.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/mcy/6159685022.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/mcy/6130537944.html
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Jun 8, 2017 21:41
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Mr. Wiggles posted:I'm just too drat short in the leg - same problem as the old KLR. Like, tippy toeing one side only (29 inch inseam). This is a thing you will get over very quickly and while it seems terrifying initially, it's actually very easy to just scoot over and put one foot down.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:42
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I have a 30 inch inseam and had a DR650 as my first bike with no problem. But it is nice to be able to flat-foot. Have you tested out any of these bikes you're looking at? That made the choice easier for me. Duc Scrambler is fun as hell.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:46
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builds character posted:This is a thing you will get over very quickly and while it seems terrifying initially, it's actually very easy to just scoot over and put one foot down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRFyw57o_Ic
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Jun 8, 2017 22:12
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builds character posted:Seems just a little expensive. Try for $2500? If you're getting your first bike or are not generally handy, I think clutchpuck will come look at Buells with you if you asked nicely and bought him beer. My opinions on bikes I've never personally owned - 08-09 KLR's like to drink oil. XR's are tall as gently caress. Dutymode fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 22:14
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builds character posted:This is a thing you will get over very quickly and while it seems terrifying initially, it's actually very easy to just scoot over and put one foot down. I have a 32 inch inseam and still can't quite flat-foot the Multi. There's a stop at an off-camber intersection about a block from my house that I hit every time I leave. The first time I stopped there I had a mini-panic when I went to put my left toe down and dog-paddled the air. Slid my rear end over, and hey look, the ground didn't disappear. Don't stop over potholes and you'll be fine. I got tired of feeling like an idiot at his first barre class and started getting on my bike via the pegs like this guy, but now I have to be careful I don't roundhouse the top case. I will never be cool.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:22
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builds character posted:Seems just a little expensive. Try for $2500? If you're getting your first bike or are not generally handy, I think clutchpuck will come look at Buells with you if you asked nicely and bought him beer. Dutymode posted:My opinions on bikes I've never personally owned - Taller is better for me. I'm not particularly handy and a second opinion in exchange for some beer would be ideal. Paging clutchpuck and other Seattle wrenches! I've never ridden a KLR but had a change to ride a DR650 and loved it. Figured they are similar bikes and the KLRs are more common up here for some reason.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:28
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builds character posted:This is a thing you will get over very quickly and while it seems terrifying initially, it's actually very easy to just scoot over and put one foot down. I did a bunch of miles on some special KLRs years ago, and I never got comfortable getting on and off the bike. Just too damned tall. I've always had bikes with short saddles, and I'd like to stay that way. Anyway, of the ones I've looked at, I've owned the Honda, tested the Kawasaki, have never touched the Ducati, and I've got some time on Bonnevilles and I love them, but I haven't ridden the scrambler in the dirt so I'm not sure on it.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:39
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vs Dinosaurs posted:Taller is better for me. I'm not particularly handy and a second opinion in exchange for some beer would be ideal. Paging clutchpuck and other Seattle wrenches! DR650 is a lot lighter and thus more dirt-oriented.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:44
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So I think I've come to a decision: my local dealer has a couple 2016 FZ07 in stock for $6400, and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on one. I know with no fairings or windscreen the windblast will be rough, but will it otherwise work alright for highway trips? Most driving would be around the city, otherwise I'd look at something different. The other bike that kind of piqued my interest was a Honda CB500f or V-Strom 650, how would those compared? Finally, insurance. Progressive was going to double my insurance rate for me to get the larger bike. After doing some research though, I came across dairyland insurance...I can get full, high-limit coverage on it for cheaper than I'm paying now for my Ninja 300 (and my Ninja 300 would be even cheaper!). Around $55/month. Does this sound reasonable? Or am I going to get screwed somewhere?
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Jun 9, 2017 22:40
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