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CountFosco posted:Love that lamb in the monstrance there. If there's one thing that I wish I could see more of among the Orthodox that I hang out with, it'd be more of a focus on agnus dei as a symbol of faith, and less on Byzantine empire Eagle clutching stuff in its claws. agnus dei is primarily a western symbol and was even when we were united; it was even prohibited by one of our councils. if you want orthodox agnus dei representations, you want the Italian Byzantine churches, which predate the Council of Trullo. https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/the-lamb-of-god-in-orthodoxy-a-history-in-icons/
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Jun 11, 2017 10:17
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What's agnus dei?
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Jun 11, 2017 11:40
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Hogge Wild posted:What's agnus dei? The Lamb of God. It's one of Christ's titles.
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Jun 11, 2017 11:48
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It's Trinity Sunday, so have a delightful medieval trinitarian carol 1. O Father without beginning, O Son and Holy Ghost also, O three and one without ending, O deus sine termino. 2. O three persons in one unity Being but one god and no mo, [more] One in substance, essence and might, O deus sine termino. 3. O, which hast made both day and night, Heaven and earth round like an O By thy wisdom and endless might, O deus sine termino. 4. O, which of nought all thing hast wrought, O verbum in principio, O, without whom is wrought right nought, O deus sine termino; 5. O prince of peace, O heavenly king, O final ender of our woe, O, whose kingdom hath no ending, O deus sine termino; 6. O maker of each creature, O supplanter of our foe, O son of Mary, virgin pure, O deus sine termino; 7. We beseech thee with all our might, Ere we depart this world fro, [from] Of forgiveness of our delicte [sins] O deus sine termino; 8. Christ grant us grace, that we come may To heaven's bliss, when we hence go, Who died for us on Good Friday Et regnat sine termino.  Today would also have been the feast day of the confraternity I wrote my master's thesis on (it was dissolved in 1783). I wonder if I'm the only one who still occasionally spares a thought for them.
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Jun 11, 2017 15:40
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HEY GAIL posted:agnus dei is primarily a western symbol and was even when we were united; it was even prohibited by one of our councils. I'd like to ask the thread's prayers for the soul of an old friend of my parents. He passed away Friday, and the funeral's tomorrow. He was a former monk, an iconographer, a Society for Creative Anachronism member (that's how we knew him), and a die-hard liberal. He was posting anti-Trump and anti-GOP links on Facebook right up to the end. I like to think he'd have fit in here. *EDIT* Oh yeah, and he's going to be buried at a nearby Orthodox monastery. The funeral has quite a schedule. Panikhida at a local OCA church, then burial service, then all-night vigil, then a liturgy the next morning, then the actual burial at the monastery. Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 18:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The Lamb of God. It's one of Christ's titles. thanks
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Jun 11, 2017 18:59
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Keromaru5 posted:then all-night vigil I read that as "alt-right vigil"  Shine with God, you crazy former monk diamond.
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Jun 12, 2017 14:29
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Keromaru5 posted:He was posting anti-Trump and anti-GOP links on Facebook right up to the end. I like to think he'd have fit in here.  quote:The funeral has quite a schedule. Panikhida at a local OCA church, then burial service, then all-night vigil, then a liturgy the next morning, then the actual burial at the monastery.
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Jun 12, 2017 15:06
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That's what I thought. Is this how all Orthodox funerals go, with the all-night vigil and everything? This'll be my first one, and I'll only be able to make it to the burial service this afternoon. I was telling a friend about it, and saying that's how I want to go out: with somebody staying up all night chanting psalms for me.
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Jun 12, 2017 16:10
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HEY GAIL posted:because we don't embalm our dead. Wait, hold on. Are you implying that it is common somewhere to embalm dead people still? I've never heard of such a thing outside of history lessons concerning mostly of antiquity. Plus Lenin I guess.
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Jun 12, 2017 16:50
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Embalming is super common in the United States; it's what funeral homes do so that you can have the wake and funeral a few days after the death.
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Jun 12, 2017 16:59
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Valiantman posted:Wait, hold on. Are you implying that it is common somewhere to embalm dead people still? I've never heard of such a thing outside of history lessons concerning mostly of antiquity. Plus Lenin I guess. some googling suggests embalming is rarely done in Europe, but it's standard in North America with a few religious exceptions (Jews, Orthodox Christians, probably a few others) your typical American funeral is held about three days after death, the body is embalmed and prepared for open-casket viewing at the funeral Bel_Canto posted:Embalming is super common in the United States; it's what funeral homes do so that you can have the wake and funeral a few days after the death. Is it maybe just a practical thing given the greater distances family would likely have to travel in the US relative to Europe?
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Jun 12, 2017 17:00
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Valiantman posted:Wait, hold on. Are you implying that it is common somewhere to embalm dead people still? I've never heard of such a thing outside of history lessons concerning mostly of antiquity. Plus Lenin I guess. I mean, if you don't embalm them they tend to go off really quick which isn't so great if you want to have an open casket funeral in a week's time. If you can get them crated up and cooked/buried toot sweet then sure but it depends how quick your cadaver to coffin turnaround is. A week is not too unusual in the UK so generally you do have some basic funeral care involved, and the deceased lies in state until it's time for the funeral.
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Jun 12, 2017 17:08
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I'm pretty certain that open casket funerals aren't a thing in Europe either. The movie scene where everyone walks up to the casket and fondles the deceased for a bit is something I've never witnessed and couldn't conceive of happening in real life. We just put the closed casket in the church (or next to the grave already) and put up a big photo of the person in it. This also has the benefit that you can choose a photo "as they want to be remembered". That said for myself I'd really like a funeral like the Muslim type where you just get wrapped in a cloth and then buried quickly. Casket seems like a waste.
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Jun 12, 2017 17:38
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I'm fascinated. We just store our dead in cold rooms to prevent decay. Funerals are usually held, barring special cases, within like two weeks of the death. If the dead person is in poor condition, then there would be a closed casket with some odor eaters strategically based inside. I started googling and learned that the dead receive a heavy make-up in the states, too. That's familiar to me too, though in smaller scale. Maybe some colour on the lips, perhaps some powder to cover post-mortem bruises. This will start a Wikipedia bender for tonight.  E: The casket is closed in the church pretty much always. It's usually at the hospital chapel or the church cold room or just before the funeral service when it's optionally open for a while. In my experience it usually is but I might have a skewed sample here. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 17:41
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To be fair most people whose funerals I've been to died of cancer, which does not leave an attractive body. Maybe if the person looks more healthy, open casket is an option? Metternich can you help me out here
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Jun 12, 2017 17:48
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pidan posted:To be fair most people whose funerals I've been to died of cancer, which does not leave an attractive body. Maybe if the person looks more healthy, open casket is an option? Metternich can you help me out here Morticians in the US use a ton of makeup, prosthetics, nice clothes, etc to make the body look nice so most of the time you can still have an open casket. Closed casket is only really "necessary" if the body was mutilated badly in an accident or something.
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Jun 12, 2017 17:57
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pidan posted:To be fair most people whose funerals I've been to died of cancer, which does not leave an attractive body. Maybe if the person looks more healthy, open casket is an option? Metternich can you help me out here I've never been to an open casket funeral either, and at least in Vienna I served at God knows how many as the cross-bearer. My grandpa and my great-grandma both were left in their dying beds for some time after death so that the family could say their goodbyes (one night for my great-grandma and two for my grandpa, but that was because he died in December and she in August), and that was really beautiful and nice and personally I learned a lot from that about life and death and grief, but otoh I'm pretty sure that doing so is the exception nowadays and probably strictly confined to rural regions.
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Jun 12, 2017 18:22
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Pellisworth posted:Morticians in the US use a ton of makeup, prosthetics, nice clothes, etc to make the body look nice so most of the time you can still have an open casket. Closed casket is only really "necessary" if the body was mutilated badly in an accident or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh1sHhpXuZY
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Jun 12, 2017 18:30
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pidan posted:I'm pretty certain that open casket funerals aren't a thing in Europe either. The movie scene where everyone walks up to the casket and fondles the deceased for a bit is something I've never witnessed and couldn't conceive of happening in real life. It depends on the person, my granny wanted an open casket funeral but I think they're weird so she didn't get one. Even without that she still spent most of the week in the funeral home on display so they are open even if not during the service, and she wouldn't have made a very attractive corpse without the aid of a mortician.
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Jun 12, 2017 19:39
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if you're orthodox, you'll see a lot of...corpsey corpses, if you get my drift
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Jun 12, 2017 19:50
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my death plan is to be buried straight in the dirt with a tree planted on top. embalming and burying in a casket is just one final "gently caress you" humans give to the earth, ensuring that even in death the earth cannot reclaim even one iota of the resources they robbed from it. the funerary rite is extremely complicated and occupies 90% of my will however. several psychedelic drugs are required for all attendees. i don't know why my wife thinks i'm so morbid, so what if ive been planning my funeral since i was 12.
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Jun 12, 2017 21:36
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Lay me to rest in the mighty ocean so I can spend eternity with my boys the skeleton pirates.
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Jun 12, 2017 21:42
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Going to see the grave of one of my best friends soon had me thinking a lot about this. I rather didn't there was a plot or anything people had to keep clean, though I of course would not mind being remembered. This is quite the leg up from my depressed teenage days where I wanted fatal traps installed at random around me to inflict on others what I thought I was going through  Mr Enderby posted:Lay me to rest in the mighty ocean so I can spend eternity with my boys the skeleton pirates. My dude 
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Jun 12, 2017 21:59
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Mr Enderby posted:Lay me to rest in the mighty ocean so I can spend eternity with my boys the skeleton pirates. I know it sounds nice, but have you considered that you'll arrive at the Last Judgment having freshly passed the gullet of a fish, and that the wrong way?  I guess it can be a seal too, if that is a seal. And fish are dogs or something. Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that burial at sea is a theological and iconographical state of deep confusion. Numerical Anxiety fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 00:56
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That was a lovely service. My mom and I went together. There were about 6 priests in attendance, including the cool nerdy one I like from the next county. After the service, I got him and my mom geeking out about the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. (NOT to be confused with certain other Golden Dawns we might name.) cis autodrag posted:my death plan is to be buried straight in the dirt with a tree planted on top. embalming and burying in a casket is just one final "gently caress you" humans give to the earth, ensuring that even in death the earth cannot reclaim even one iota of the resources they robbed from it.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:22
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Numerical Anxiety posted:I know it sounds nice, but have you considered that you'll arrive at the Last Judgment having freshly passed the gullet of a fish, and that the wrong way? We come into life with funky, we pass through death with funk. I am prepared for a funky resurrection of the body.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:32
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Keromaru5 posted:
uh, I need to update my will.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:44
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Keromaru5 posted:That was a lovely service. My mom and I went together. There were about 6 priests in attendance, including the cool nerdy one I like from the next county. After the service, I got him and my mom geeking out about the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Being the new "catholic" upper crust, the drug cartel kingpins have taken up the baton.
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Jun 13, 2017 10:13
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So the Vatican just published the June 8 letter of Pope Francis to the clergy of the diocese of Ahiara in southern Nigeria. Backstory: in 2012 Pope Benedict appointed Peter Okpalaeke, a priest from the diocese of Awka, to be the new bishop of the diocese. This caused an uproar amongst the clergy and faithful in Ahiara, because Okpalaeke doesn't belong to the Mbaise people which comprise the vast majority of the local population. Okpalaeke couldn't even receive his episcopal ordination in Ahiara's cathedral, because young priests blocked the entrance, and he hasn't been able to actually take up the office since then. In 2013, Pope Francis named a Cardinal Onaiyekan of Abuja as apostolic administrator of the diocese in the hope that this conflict might abate soon, but obviously this didn't happen. The Mbaise are overwhelmingly Catholic and supply a disproportionately large chunk of Nigeria's clergy, yet there is not a single Mbaise bishop in office today; they see themselves as being discriminated against in favour of clergy hailing from other parts of the country. Francis now flexed his muscle by way of this address to the clergy of Ahiara, representatives of which visited him in Rome on June 8:The Holy Father posted:I cordially greet the delegation and thank you for coming from Nigeria in a spirit of pilgrimage. I couldn't find any info on what a divinis is supposed to mean in this particular context, so I turned toward the Catholic Encyclopedia which was of course written well over a century ago: I guess this is the most applicable to the current situation? posted:The particular personal interdict, which is a real censure, affects individuals much in the same way as excommunication. They may not assist at the Divine offices or at Mass, and if they are interdicted by name they should be put out, however, if they refuse to withdraw it is not necessary to suspend the service since, after all, the interdict does not deprive them of the communion of the faithful. They may not demand to receive the sacraments, except Penance and the Viaticum, and it is not lawful to administer them. They are to be deprived of ecclesiastical burial, but Mass and the ordinary prayers may be said for them. A cleric violating the interdict becomes irregular. This must have been... awkward for the Ahiara delegation. I wonder if they will eventually submit. This is a good analysis of the situation that tries to show both sides of the matter. System Metternich fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 13:28
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Tias posted:Being the new "catholic" upper crust, the drug cartel kingpins have taken up the baton. On the other hand, I'm probably underestimating how much murder is involved in rich eccentricity.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:58
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To quote that most wizened of warrior-prophets, MC Danny Boy, "Behind every great fortune is a shooters confession. If only the Lord knows, dope, he' continue to bless them"
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Jun 13, 2017 16:16
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Keromaru5 posted:Yikes. I was hoping for the less murderey sort of rich eccentrics. Russian mobster graves for your enjoyment
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Jun 14, 2017 21:42
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From the pharaohs of Egypt to the emperors of China, of course the greatest tombs in the world are built on murder.
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Jun 15, 2017 00:37
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genola posted:From the pharaohs of Egypt to the emperors of China, of course the greatest tombs in the world are built on murder. Hey! That's unneccesarily harsh on the Pharaohs. Those giant tombs were built by people who didn't have much to do in the off season and they were paid in beer to do it.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:19
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Josef bugman posted:Hey! That's unneccesarily harsh on the Pharaohs. Those giant tombs were built by people who didn't have much to do in the off season and they were paid in beer to do it. Yeah I thought the pyramids being built on slave labour was incorrect, or at least no more correct than anything in the ancient world being built on slave labour.
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Jun 15, 2017 09:29
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Josef bugman posted:Hey! That's unneccesarily harsh on the Pharaohs. Those giant tombs were built by people who didn't have much to do in the off season and they were paid in beer to do it.
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Jun 15, 2017 10:40
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I don't know if the story that they went on strike when they could not receive garlic for their lunches is true, but I find it -extremely- relatable.
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Jun 15, 2017 12:18
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Not sure if there is much appetite around here for TV shows about Christianity, but Sean Bean is currently playing a Catholic priest in Broken for the BBC, and it kind of owns because its written by Jimmy McGovern. I'd also recommend Rev as well, partly because its amazing, partly because Tom Hollander uses his acting connections to bring in big name actors for cameos. And Father Ted obviously, a very accurate documentary about life amongst the clergy in Ireland.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:33
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I just want a confirmation that Lilith isn't a thing in Catholicism and mainstream Judaism, and Adam and Eve were not cast out of Eden into an Earth that was already populated by people, and that angels both righteous and fallen did not descend to mate with Lilith's children. Because I had one guy at my hobby shop claim just that.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:49
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