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Neddy Seagoon posted:Bethesda didn't learn their lesson from last time, they're trying to make paid mods A Thing Do what now?
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Jun 12, 2017 06:02
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Over in the good timeline: oh great, publishers will divert a slice of their massive profits into paying top mod creators a reasonable fee for their work and release them as free dlc!
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Jun 12, 2017 06:12
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Okay, I saw the video. Ugh, they think trying the rent-seeking will work after last time, and for a bonus tray of poo poo sandwiches I'm guessing here comes the stacked DRM. Guess I better sweep through the Fallout 4 DLC sooner rather than later.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:16
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Veotax posted:Apparently there is going to be curation this time though, so maybe it won't be as much of a poo poo show as last time? You trust Bethesda to be better than Steam on this?
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Jun 12, 2017 06:16
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Arcsquad12 posted:You trust Bethesda to be better than Steam on this? Kinda difficult to be worse [img-Hollywood-scale-  ]
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Jun 12, 2017 06:19
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Kavak posted:It's not Steam itself doing this and Fallout IV sucks so at most the Skyrim Nexus will turn into a teapot of drama again. If Steam couldn't land it as a general thing for all games, what the gently caress makes you think it's going to work for a single Producer's library? Especially the one with possibly the largest modding community of all?
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Jun 12, 2017 06:20
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It's not even screening mods (apparently you cannot even put on a mod that already exists), but them hiring you to make new mods for them. Sounds like how user made skins worked in Dota. So at worst Bethesda will just cut the modders pay in a year without any announcement...
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Jun 12, 2017 06:26
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Best-case scenario: Bethesda starts out by contacting or negotiating with a couple of the Nexus modders (say, Arthmoor), and the initial correspondences result in them dropping the Creation Club idea without hesitation. Ideal-but-highly-unlikely scenario: Bethesda sees TrainWiz's work and hires him to work on the next Elder Scrolls game.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:39
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Bholder posted:So how many people will lose their poo poo even though this is a much better system and at worst it will be ignored in favor of better free alternatives? IS it? A special currency you have to buy to buy mods is the worst idea. Yeah guys, so if you have a refund for a mod problem, we don't give back your money, just the mod currency. And most of it will be from Bethesda themselves? That's called DLC, not mods Midnight Voyager fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 06:43
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The proof is in the pudding obviously and Bethesda has every opportunity to screw up the execution here, but taken at their word this program honestly seems fine to me. Read the actual FAQ at the bottom of https://creationclub.bethesda.net/en if anyone hasn't. Key points are that everything in the program is going through an internal Bethesda pipeline where it will have QA testing, polish and feedback phases. Partners in the program submit project proposals with documentation to Bethesda, and if Bethesda approves the project they start PAYING THEM IMMEDIATELY and set development milestones for further payment. All the content for the program is supposed to be completely original and It seems like it might actually be pretty difficult for someone to cram stolen assets through without anyone noticing, unlike the Steam Workshop. Bethesda hasn't said anything about clamping down on free mods and I don' t know why they would, the free mods aren't going anywhere. Will the modders be paid fairly? Will it be impossible to sort out original work from stolen work? Will Bethesda actually hold up their end of the deal on QA and assistance? Who knows. Regarding TF2/Dota comparisons, AFAIK Valve requires authors to submit completely finished assets to the Workshop and then it's either accepted or it isn't, and the creators are paid on a percentage of sales. Bethesda's scheme actually in some ways seems more fair and stable since it isn't based on skimming the cream from the top of a sea of totally unpaid spec work, and people theoretically know what they will be paid for their time rather than having to depend on item sales. I agree that abstracted Bethesda Buxx currency is annoying and bad but let's not pretend that Bethesda invented the idea. I am inured to it at this point. Scoss fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 06:48
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Scoss posted:The proof is in the pudding obviously and Bethesda has every opportunity to screw up the execution here, but taken at their word this program honestly seems completely fine to me. This assumes the average mod-maker has a project coder's ethos and not a "done when I feel like it" attitude. Expecting developer-quality milestones and QT is not going to fly when the vast majority of them can't stand any form of criticism and will only release their pretty code baby when they think it's ready. Those stupid developers have NO PLACE expecting an a[u/r]tist to meet project goals and maintain contact with Bethesda to update them on content development pipelines.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:53
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poo poo if it's literally nothing but in-house mods made by Devs, that sounds fine to me. Remember that game-jam video they made for Skyrim ages ago? I wouldn't mind those as mods.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:58
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I have to interrupt you because I just looked at the Nexus and... http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/24814/  http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/24808/  -Yikes-
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Jun 12, 2017 07:02
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This assumes the average mod-maker has a project coder's ethos and not a "done when I feel like it" attitude. Expecting developer-quality milestones and QT is not going to fly when the vast majority of them can't stand any form of criticism and will only release their pretty code baby when they think it's ready. Those stupid developers have NO PLACE expecting an a[u/r]tist to meet project goals and maintain contact with Bethesda to update them on content development pipelines. I'm not sure I see the problem, I mean that seems like a situation that solves itself through the mechanisms of the program. The submission and approval process is the first gate that will filter out anyone who can't put together a coherent and organized project proposal that meets whatever criteria Bethesda is going to lay out for them. If a non-serious developer does manage to get through the approval process, I can't imagine it will take long for their contract to be ended once they start missing milestones and fail to correspond with Bethesda. What's terrible about that? If hobby modders, or any other kind of modder, want to retain complete authorial control over their own work and set their own schedules, then they just don't use the creation club.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:04
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Kavak posted:People will pirate them again, there will be allegations of stolen content again, everything will be shut down again. And there is much better DRM this time around. This is basically haven for anyone using patreon as a way to have their mods "sold" as an alternative. Look at the Slab for how creators can take advantage of thirsty nerds. Sex sells for sure, but in this case you are making a ton of dosh than just a regular armor mod.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:06
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Scoss posted:I'm not sure I see the problem, I mean that seems like a situation that solves itself through the mechanisms of the program. The submission and approval process is the first gate that will filter out anyone who can't put together a coherent and organized project proposal that meets whatever criteria Bethesda is going to lay out for them. If a non-serious developer does manage to get through the approval process, I can't imagine it will take long for their contract to be ended once they start missing milestones and fail to correspond with Bethesda. What's terrible about that? Every modder thinks they're Dev-quality creators and rais a massive stink about not being part of the 'elite 1%' people who are actually capable of being professionals working with the studio.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:07
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And everybody else will laugh at them like they did the guy who put up that broken armor set as a paid mod. Nobody will care that a guy who can only desaturate textures didn't get in.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:19
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If most modders aren't capable of meeting the professional standards to be a part of the creation club then it sounds to me like Bethesda built it properly. Again, the entire system seems designed to filter out flakes and extend a hand to the people that want to be professional developers. How is that bad?
Scoss fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 07:22
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Scoss posted:If most modders aren't capable of meeting the professional standards to be a part of the creation club then it sounds to me like Bethesda built it properly. Again, the entire system seems designed to filter out flakes and extend a hand to the people that want to be professional developers. How is that bad? It's not, it's a sensible setup. The problem is it's interacting directly with people who are not sensible, or sane, and will get pretty drat vocal about it  .
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Jun 12, 2017 07:24
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yeah the thing to note is that neddy does not appear to be criticizing bethesda's setup here as unfair or whatever. it's common knowledge that the vast, vast majority of modders are loving awful technologists and worse people. he's simply saying that this system will bring that out in greater relief, which is more content for this thread, and that is good.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:32
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Finally a Jennifer Coolidge companion.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:52
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Remind me to read the Nexus mod author section tomorrow because I imagine that it's already a barrel of laughs.
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Jun 12, 2017 08:33
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turn off the TV posted:Remind me to read the Nexus mod author section tomorrow because I imagine that it's already a barrel of laughs. Please don't hesitate to share if there's anything really good.
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Jun 12, 2017 08:41
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Max Wilco posted:Ideal-but-highly-unlikely scenario: Bethesda sees TrainWiz's work and hires him to work on the next Elder Scrolls game.  Look at this. Look at this and tell me they aren't already looking at him for this.
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Jun 12, 2017 08:52
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's not, it's a sensible setup. The problem is it's interacting directly with people who are not sensible, or sane, and will get pretty drat vocal about it My objection to paid mods has always been that these three-children-in-a-trenchcoat modding motherfuckers should not be rewarded, least of all monetarily, for locking themselves away from constructive criticism and pitching a fit, taking their ball and going home any time someone disagrees with them. This setup is perfect because I suspect there's no way with Bethesda themselves vetting people, that most of those wailing idiots will get a foot in the door, meaning level-headed people with actual talent can make some money off their actual hard work that isn't just upresing vanilla textures or removing parts of armor for 'sexiness'. Mind you I still probably won't be purchasing mods, much less for Bethesda games, but this is seemingly the right way to handle it.
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Jun 12, 2017 08:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:You trust Bethesda to be better than Steam on this? I have little faith in Valve/Steam to do anything right these days, so maybe? I dunno, so far it sounds much better than Valve's approach of "upload whatever you want, we don't care. Also we'll only pay you after you make like a grand or whatever it was"
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Jun 12, 2017 08:57
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Arcsquad12 posted:You trust Bethesda to be better than Steam on this? Valve will somehow turn this into another gambling site scandal, while Gaben buys another warehouse to store his knives and brony stuff.
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Jun 12, 2017 09:02
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Scoss posted:an internal Bethesda pipeline where it will have QA testing, polish 
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Jun 12, 2017 09:19
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So how long before they add "crates" (or thematic equivalent) to Skyrim and sell keys in the Bethesda funbux store?
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Jun 12, 2017 09:25
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m2pt5 posted:So how long before they add "crates" (or thematic equivalent) to Skyrim and sell keys in the Bethesda funbux store? You will only be able to get mods from bethesda funboxes. Open a box and get five dong mods but no legendary tier dong framework mods? Sucks to be you!
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Jun 12, 2017 11:22
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m2pt5 posted:So how long before they add "crates" (or thematic equivalent) to Skyrim and sell keys in the Bethesda funbux store?
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Jun 12, 2017 11:53
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m2pt5 posted:So how long before they add "crates" (or thematic equivalent) to Skyrim and sell keys in the Bethesda funbux store? Anyway, I like their approach more than Valve's (but they set pretty low bar and they are making it only lower) and I guess one video call or whatever would be enough to filter out crazy narcissistic modders (if they will ever bother, but professional applications would probably suffice). But I am curious what kind of DRM will they employ. I guess - pretty much none. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 12:04
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The Joe Man posted:They pretty much proved this is exactly their plan with a chest containing an official Link costume: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk9wzFtAVx8
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Jun 12, 2017 12:10
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Every mod will have its own copy of SecureROM and a rootkit included.
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Jun 12, 2017 12:10
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This assumes the average mod-maker has a project coder's ethos and not a "done when I feel like it" attitude. Expecting developer-quality milestones and QT is not going to fly when the vast majority of them can't stand any form of criticism and will only release their pretty code baby when they think it's ready. Those stupid developers have NO PLACE expecting an a[u/r]tist to meet project goals and maintain contact with Bethesda to update them on content development pipelines. Filtering out prima-donna babies seems like an unqualified plus to me tbh. eta: whoops, seems this is a well-plowed field. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 12:14
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I hope Arthmoor tries to submit something and is unceremoniously rejected. He'll probably throw a poo poo-fit on his blog about it.
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Jun 12, 2017 12:28
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Nah, man, this is how Whitenlore: the Beartime is going to take the gently caress off.
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Jun 12, 2017 12:35
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Cernunnos posted:I hope Arthmoor tries to submit something and is unceremoniously rejected.
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Jun 12, 2017 12:42
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Arthmoor furry now?
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Jun 12, 2017 14:01
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I dunno, I still think paid mods are an atrocious idea. I like the idea of a revenue stream for prominent modders but honestly in my experience each game has maybe five to twelve modders who make anything worth being paid for. Plus paid mods flies in the face of the 'I code as a hobby' element a lot of modders actually follow (and let's please not delude ourselves into thinking anyone is going to make a professional wage off of modding, let alone should they.) The whole thing has too many barriers to legitimate users and I don't know how you implement it without hitting the free mod community over the head with a hammer. Some kind of patreon model is about the only thing I can think of that would work.
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Jun 12, 2017 14:02
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