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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
A story about BWM horse ownership and somehow the horses themselves are the least BWM part.

quote:

I recently was able to luck into a once in a lifetime deal to acquire a rare and fantastic dog to guard my horses. I was able to get a Tibetan Mastiff for $8,500 from a breeder who allowed me to pay with a credit card. The interest on the credit card is extremely high, so it is not an ideal situation to let it sit there.

I have three horses left after one of them was killed by a coyote and the dog comes highly recommended from friends in the horse world. I was still making payments on Daisy (RIP :'( ) and my stable fees, student loans, and mandatory living expenses for my horses, the dog, and myself are within my budget. However, I basically break even with all of those and don't have extra to pay off the credit card.

I want to get a personal loan for about 10k from my local bank, but they have turned me down for horse loans before because I do it recreationally.

Would saying the loan is for the dog and that I am going to show the dog make it more likely to get approved? If I say that I want to use it to start a business with my horses (which is true. I would like to earn money from them.) would that increase my approval?

What should I do to increase my likelihood of getting approved for the loan?

I also have some side income from Passion Parties that are mostly in cash. If I give a higher estimate of how much I made (but reasonably possible) would this work or will they only go off of my pay stubs?

Any help is appreciated! Bonus if any fellow equestrians/Tibetan owners can share their experiences!

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SpelledBackwards
Jan 7, 2001

I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

Good Parmesan posted:

How dare he not even THANK ME for taking over MY COLLEGE LOANS.


What are some cheap businesses you can start on your own or with a friend? (self.personalfinance)

Come on, man, source your quotes!

Bad With Money 2.0: The details on how I ended up with two cars are not important

And please tell me the top responses to the 21 year old involved cryptocurrency. If it were on Quora it would've been "invest in yourself", followed by "and cryptocurrency".

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

A story about BWM horse ownership and somehow the horses themselves are the least BWM part.

Holy poo poo. $8500 for a dog?

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

cowofwar posted:

Holy poo poo. $8500 for a dog?
Google it. That is cheap compared to during the peak of the fad.

Elysium
Aug 21, 2003
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

John Smith posted:

Google it. That is cheap compared to during the peak of the fad.

I was just looking it up, apparently there was a Tibetan Mastiff bubble that popped around 2015 because of oversupply and Mastiffs falling out of favor with rich people. A quick search in my area leads me to believe I could get a puppy for ~$1000, but I'm sure she needed THAT $8500 Mastiff because it's the deal of a lifetime...

It's possible those cheaper ones might be -gasp!- slight crossbreeds, which is of course vitally important. Only a 100% pureblood Mastiff of at least $5000 can guard horses, it is known.

Elysium fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 12, 2017

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

A story about BWM horse ownership and somehow the horses themselves are the least BWM part.

"I have been turned down for horse loans in the past" should be the next thread title.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time
Also what is up with paying stable fees yet apparently they have somewhere to keep their horses if the paid $8500 for a gaurd dog to guard their horses.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Photex posted:

i'd think it was a reasonable expectation kind of thing? "Sure i'll pay for half" then half ended up being upwards of 60-70k.
Yeah college is expensive - in my eyes he committed to that when he signed the divorce agreement. That's the correct order of magnitude for "60% of the cost of college" in this country.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

A story about BWM horse ownership and somehow the horses themselves are the least BWM part.

Are Passion Parties one of those MLM sex toy things? Please tell me it is, that's the last space I need on my bad with money bingo card

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

canyoneer posted:

Are Passion Parties one of those MLM sex toy things? Please tell me it is, that's the last space I need on my bad with money bingo card

It totally is.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
lol

quote:

Jobs in Japan

What job can one apply for in Japan with basic knowledge of the language and still make a decent salary (apart from teaching English)?

quote:

About as much as someone coming to America that barely knows English.

quote:

I'm actually well-versed in the culture and traditions from different media and can read Kanji fairly well.

quote:

Anime doesn't count.

quote:

[removed]

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



What kind of media?

"All three! Anime, manga, and eroge."

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
And the award for most buried lede goes to...

quote:

Is it wise for me (18F, community college student, 8$/hr, 32hr/wk) to buy an 800$ gaming pc?

Hey, guys. I'm an 18 year old barista and community college student studying art. I make 8$ an hour and work 32 hours a week (I know that's not a lot, but school and all).

I'm also a gamer along with my 16 year old little sister. For years we've had a regular office computer we use for gaming, but it isn't strong enough to handle a lot modern games like Dark Souls and Fallout 4, games we bought last year but haven't been able to pay. Because of this, we both decided that we were gonna save up enough money to buy one of those powerful gaming pcs. After browsing around, I found one on Amazon for about $800, which was a pretty great deal compared to everything else.

Now, here's the thing. I already bought it. It was shipped to my house and everything. The problem is that it's video card wasn't working (pretty pissed about that), and now I get to return it and get my money back.

Honestly, I'm okay with this. I'm okay with it because dropping 800$ on something all in one move like that kinda freaked me out. I did something similar a few months ago when I went clothes shopping and I'd decided it would be the last time I let myself splurge that hard in a while.

On top of that, I made a lot of stupid decisions last year involving money. I let multiple people borrow hundreds of dollars, a lot of which I haven't gotten back. I also made a lot of online subscriptions to things that I really didn't use that much. Worst of all: there was an error with the financial aid I receive and I wound up getting way more than I was supposed to. I know that I should have talked to a finance counselor about it and stored it away, but instead I spent a lot of it (on clothes). Well, guess what? I had to pay it all back and that basically wiped out my bank account.

Only reason I was able to buy that computer was because of working extra hours during the holidays and because of kind family members gifting me money, but after I bought it my account was completely empty for the first time. Even compared with the financial aid issue this was litterally zero dollars. Really freaked me out. In fact, I wound up having negative money in my account after I was charged for a subscription I forgot to cancel.

I'm having second thoughts about everything. After the new comp didn't work we hooked up the old one and, honestly? I didn't even notice what used to bother me. The games I spent most of my time playing (league, overwatch, hearthstone) I was still able to play, only with a little lag here and there. On top of all this, though, second semester started last week. Between work and school I'm just not caring all that much about games anymore. I'm taking an art class that's gotten me back into drawing and I think I'd rather spend the bulk of my free time doing that.

I know that right now the obvious solution would just be to not buy another one, but it isn't that simple. I promised my little sister that we'd get one, and since I'm the only one with a job (I'm not gonna ask my grandmother to pay for it), I'm the one able to pay for it. When I told her that I didn't really want to buy another one she got pretty disappointed. I felt like I was letting her down.

This is the year where I think I have to start paying taxes. I'm not positive if I do because my brother didn't have to the first year he worked, but I feel like I have to plan for it in case I do. In fact, this was also the year when I told myself I would start saving to move out to be on my own. I know there's a lot I need to learn before that happens, but I still want to start saving for it.

I think that maybe I'm blowing things out of proportion. It would only take me about 3 paychecks to earn back the money from the computer, and if I'm really concerned about saving I can just transfer everything from my checking to my growth account and then just use the cash I get from tips as spending money. Also, the only bill I'm responsible for is my phone bill which is only 35$ a month. I feel like buying the pc is definitely doable and wouldn't hurt me too much in the long run, plus it would let me keep my promise to my sister. Still, I don't think I want to lose that much money for something I just don't care about anymore.

TL;DR: I dropped a huge chunk of money on a pc and felt bad about it, but now I have the chance to get that money back. I'm tempted to do it, but it would break a promise to my sister and I don't think that spending the money again would hurt me too much in the long run. Any advice?

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/5q039l/is_it_wise_for_me_18f_community_college_student/

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jun 12, 2017

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Many machines on Ix....new machines
Pillbug

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Yeah college is expensive - in my eyes he committed to that when he signed the divorce agreement. That's the correct order of magnitude for "60% of the cost of college" in this country.

There is a lot unsaid in the linked OP...as is usually the case.

The biggest thing that doesn't add up is this: It's extremely unlikely that a divorce settlement left something like child college support so open-ended. While it's entirely possible *some* provision could have been made for it, a simple "60/40" isn't it. 60% of what? It's not like there is a standard, inflation-adjusted cost for "college" in the USA. And in the case of college costs it would need to be spelled out in even greater detail because in the USA most child support obligations stop hard at age 18 without special provisions.

Most custody agreements involving what happens with the children post-18 are far more specific, i.e. some fixed amount, usually deducted from child support, contributed to a college fund, etc. Anything else is just bullshit hand-waving. Assuming she's being otherwise truthful and her mom actually did go to the court with it it's no wonder the judge passed. That should tell you all you need to know about the actual agreement right there.

Then there is the whole "my dad got cancer but I think he should resume paying off my $130k student loan when (or if) he gets better" aspect that really takes it over the top. I mean, WTF.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
I want to quit my 100k salaried job to go live in Korea where THEY REALLY GET OVERWATCH man.

quote:

Advice on life transition?

I'm a 24 year old, no significant debt. I want to gently caress off to SE Asia for forever. I feel like it will be a much better culture fit. I make 100kish a year, have about 50k in savings between all my accounts and have a 20k after tax bonus coming up in January. I have a very good chance of promoting and receiving even more money if I stick it out in my current position till march.

So that's all great. I've very recently ended a year and a half relationship and have quickly realized that was the only thing holding me in my current place.

I have two questions: if I set a 30k budget how long could I live in SE Asia? More seriously, what do I do with a nonchallenging highly lucrative job? I hate everyone who works for me, I hate most of my coworkers and hate with a passion my current life, in which I work 13 hours a day with 3 beers and a game of overwatch as the sole silver lining in my day to day life.

Just the title:

quote:

Is spending 10% of what I earn on video games too much?

Spoiler: It's all loot box purchases in Overwatch.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 12, 2017

legendof
Oct 27, 2014

pig slut lisa posted:


[*]If you're sharing some of that purestrain Reddit BWM, please try to both copy/paste the Reddit OP and include a link. This helps other posters engage more with your thread, as we can go pull followup comments from the Reddit link and don't have to worry about the OP deleting their post in a fit of shame.

I want to watch people get torn apart in the reddit comments

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

quote:

I still owe what I paid for my home 15 years later. Doesn't seem normal...
submitted 2 days ago by confusedfather101

It is a mobile home. I paid about 35k and still owe about 35k. They tell me it's because of the type of loan it is but nothing else. I'm sure the interest rate is high my credit isn't great. Am I really this screwed or is there something wrong?

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6gatgu/i_still_owe_what_i_paid_for_my_home_15_years/

:negative:

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Many machines on Ix....new machines
Pillbug
Is Reddit selection bias in action these days? I.e. there really aren't that many young, white, self-absorbed Anime nerds who make terrible decisions by virtue of trying hard to make no decisions at all, but the ones that do exist gravitate towards posting their innermost thoughts there?

Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

I hate to be that guy, but this was posted 2 pages ago.

kimcicle
Feb 23, 2003

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I want to quit my 100k salaried job to go live in Korea where THEY REALLY GET OVERWATCH man.


Just the title:


Spoiler: It's all loot box purchases in Overwatch.

These combination of posts makes me irrationally angry and I really can't explain why.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Nail Rat posted:

I hate to be that guy, but this was posted 2 pages ago.

In penance, I submit new content.

My boss and I are both evading taxes. Valve suspended my steam account because I made a bunch of money from Counterstrike. Is admitting tax fraud to the IRS to get my steam account (with many gun skins) worth it?

Also, how do I get a receipt from my drug dealer/as a drug dealer for tax purposes?

quote:

IRS involved in online transactions

Basically, I've made a few thousand dollars off counter strike in the last month or two and valve recently barred my usage until I provided my social security number. I looked into it and found this:

The United States Internal Revenue Service requires us to report gross sales for, and provide IRS Form 1099’s to, only those subscribers who are U.S. citizens or residents and who exceed 200 sales transactions in a calendar year and also exceed $20,000 in gross sales proceeds from those sales transactions in that same calendar year, from all of the subscriber's accounts. If you are a U.S. citizen or resident and exceed both of these thresholds, we will report the amount of gross sales to the IRS and provide you with Form 1099.

I have no idea what a 1099 is (I've filled one out though I'll get into that) and I've made a lot off this and don't want to pay taxes. But here's the thing, I currently work for a law firm (I work in their warehouse filing and organizing poo poo) and I was initially hired 'temporarily'. I've been there about 5 months now, I get paid $10 an hour tax free, work about 15-35 hours a week (boss actually yelled at me about a month ago because I'm almost working full time), and I don't pay taxes on that either. I've made a little over $6,000 while working there, and I've made about $3,000-4,000 on steam. Again, none of my income was taxed (except the 1099 thing I signed which I don't remember what it is) and now steam is asking for my ssn for the IRS.

I don't know if I'm just overreacting but I don't know what to do with my money. I've never paid taxes in my life and I don't know what to expect. I've spent about $1,500 over the course of those 5 months, and I'm pretty frugal about spending money. ~$500 of that was for christmas presents this year (I'm not big on christmas but this is the first year I can actually buy presents, and might be the last christmas for me), another like $400 was spent on my initial counter strike investment, and the rest was for poo poo like food, hearthstone packs, cigarettes, and some.. other stuff.

And I may have a third source of income that pays pretty well but isn't taxed either. Not going into detail about that but it's an important part of this. So that, on top of two other sources of income might not look good. Weekly hundred, sometime thousand, dollar deposits with money that's not all from my job, large amount of money for someone my age, I just don't feel like this is going to end well.

So what should I expect? What should I do with my money?

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3wwyu6/irs_involved_in_online_transactions/

overdesigned
Apr 10, 2003

We are compassion...
Lipstick Apathy
Ahahahaahah I bet he's been working as a 1099 contractor at that law firm, thinking he's getting paid tax-free, not realizing the IRS is going to destroy him utterly when he files his taxes and hasn't been doing his proper self-withholding.

No Butt Stuff
Jun 10, 2004

I don't think you can withdraw your steam balance. I wouldn't think it would taxable since you're basically selling stuff for a digital currency that you can buy games or other stupid poo poo with.

Good Parmesan
Nov 30, 2007

I TAKE PHOTOS OF OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN IN PLANET FITNESS
Help! I keep spending money on video games.
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/31nj5k/help_i_keep_spending_money_on_video_games/

quote:

I am currently in school and recently just got a part-time job in Tim Hortons making around $800 per month. I started playing Hearthstone and League of Legends a long time ago but ever since I received all these money, I have kept buying things like card packs and skins that I have always wanted before I got my job. Now I have spent almost $400 on skin and card packs and I can't seem to stop. Please give me some advice.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
This is from a perfectly boring post that isn't worth posting in full, but I love this note in his budget:

quote:

World of Warcraft -15 MMO Sub is a cost saving measure long term

No Butt Stuff
Jun 10, 2004

He's probably not wrong.

Hard to spend money at the bar when you're poopsocking your mage to 110.

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Is the UK really lovely for developers? I feel like with 7 months under your belt, you ought to be able to find a place that would take a chance on you if you just said "Well, I had an internship but it ended up having to be restarted, so now I'm looking for something permanent."

Or does everyone just do internships until you hit a year or something?

The UK - or London at least - is really, really good for software developers, probably only the Bay Area has more ridiculous salaries. The problem is of course that this means every kid with a computer is convinced they can step into a million quid job (or at least a >70k role, which a lot of companies pay for kids fresh out of college).

This, compared with the ridiculously predatory "apprenticeship" scheme the Government uses to let companies get around the minimum wage (highlights - a one year "apprenticeship" in "Reception Operations" and a two year apprenticeship in "Marketing" (telesales), all at £3 an hour) leads to shitloads of shovelware companies (and even some fairly high end non-software companies) getting all their dev work done at pay rates that would make a Victorian mill owner blush.

There's no way of transferring them to another company because that's completely and totally not what they're for - any company offering one of these modern apprenticeships is doing it purely to pay next-to-nothing to their staff for as long as possible, and they don't care if you were one day from completing your old one, you start again when you move. GWM as hell for the companies, of course.

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

No Butt Stuff posted:

I don't think you can withdraw your steam balance. I wouldn't think it would taxable since you're basically selling stuff for a digital currency that you can buy games or other stupid poo poo with.

Not directly, but people get it out of steam like this: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3807537

Betazoid
Aug 3, 2010

Hallo. Ik ben een leeuw.
In the last BWM thread, there were some examples of GoFundMe and people who were asking others to pay off their insane debts.

Meet this guy, who has over $200k of debt on a Ph.D. in fiction writing.

quote:

Justin Daugherty is a writer and publisher of literary works in Atlanta. He works hard to support emerging voices in literature and has promoted literary work through as editor at numerous magazines and a small press.

Justin Daugherty is finishing a Ph.D. in July 2017. Justin maxed out student loans ($200k+) in the spring of 2016 and has been living on a meager teaching stipend ($1,300/month with $1,000/month in rent and bills) and a credit card for over a year. The stipend ends with graduation in July 2017 and Justin has not yet found post-doctoral employment. Credit cards are maxed out and he is having trouble paying them, and that also means he is having trouble paying for other things such as food, major (necessary) car repairs, and necessities.

At present, Justin is searching for jobs and will not be able to afford to travel for interviews without help. Additional funds will be used to pay on bills, supplement the loss of income in August, and support moving expenses.

Since founding Sundog Lit, Cartridge Lit, and Jellyfish Highway Press, Justin has thrown his passion into supporting literature without a salary or profit.

Justin finds it very difficult to ask for help, but he needs it now. He can't express how truly humbled and grateful he is for continued support given during this difficult time.

https://www.gofundme.com/broke-student-blues

Frankly, the fact that he was able to raise $4,000 is amazing to me, but I cannot imagine starting my professional life with that much debt in such a competitive field. If he wants to be a fiction professor, the road is going to be very, very hard.

Barry
Aug 1, 2003

Hardened Criminal
$200k+ for a creative writing (or whatever it is) degree? :stare:

Betazoid
Aug 3, 2010

Hallo. Ik ben een leeuw.

Barry posted:

$200k+ for a creative writing (or whatever it is) degree? :stare:

Yeah, it's creative writing. Generally, the MFA is considered the terminal degree for the field. Many professors say "Instead of getting the Ph.D., you should just be writing your book."

I guess I'll add it's possible that some of this debt is for his BA or MFA, so it may not be 100% for the Ph.D.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




I assume phd is basically, like most phds, purely for academia jobs?

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Many machines on Ix....new machines
Pillbug
Chicken and Egg time: What's worse, that someone would be that willfully blind to spend money that wasn't theirs to that extent for that result, or that an entire industry exists to help said people do exactly that while extracting massive profits from them?

Bonus "Omelet" question: Should taxpayers ultimately be on the hook to bail said person out so that the industry still profits? (careful, it is a trick question).

LLCoolJD
Dec 8, 2007

Musk threatens the inorganic promotion of left-wing ideology that had been taking place on the platform

Block me for being an unironic DeSantis fan, too!

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Just because it's not legally unenforceable doesn't mean it's not extremely lovely to say "Hey, I'm paying most of your loans," then "I'm paying half of your loans," then "I'm going to pay the absolute minimum I can on your loans and also pay late so your credit gets hosed," to "I'm done paying your loans."

The cancer changes things, but it's not like he knew he was going to get cancer.

He's never going to win father of the year, but he warned her years in advance that this would happen, plus he has cancer. It's not a great thing to break a promise to your child, but he still paid $500/month for years. Not every dad does that. Yet she calls them "his loans" and seeks gratitude for paying for her own degree. The fact that she is looking at $500/month cars tells me she feels too good for a $20,000 or less vehicle. She needs to suck it up and move on.

Tiny Brontosaurus
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

LLCoolJD posted:

He's never going to win father of the year, but he warned her years in advance that this would happen, plus he has cancer. It's not a great thing to break a promise to your child, but he still paid $500/month for years. Not every dad does that. Yet she calls them "his loans" and seeks gratitude for paying for her own degree. The fact that she is looking at $500/month cars tells me she feels too good for a $20,000 or less vehicle. She needs to suck it up and move on.

What do you suppose this thread's response would be if someone posted "I consigned for a loan and I want to stop paying it"?

No Butt Stuff
Jun 10, 2004

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

What do you suppose this thread's response would be if someone posted "I consigned for a loan and I want to stop paying it"?

I went back and re-read the post and I don't understand who, if anyone, co-signed loans.

Are they Parents PLUS loans or something? If they are, would she have co-signed?

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

What do you suppose this thread's response would be if someone posted "I consigned for a loan and I want to stop paying it"?

Impossible to guess without specifying the genderconsumption habits of both parties.

Photex
Apr 6, 2009




She said they were private loans in the comments that's all I got

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!

Betazoid posted:

In the last BWM thread, there were some examples of GoFundMe and people who were asking others to pay off their insane debts.

Meet this guy, who has over $200k of debt on a Ph.D. in fiction writing.


https://www.gofundme.com/broke-student-blues

Frankly, the fact that he was able to raise $4,000 is amazing to me, but I cannot imagine starting my professional life with that much debt in such a competitive field. If he wants to be a fiction professor, the road is going to be very, very hard.

He needs to aim his writing skills into the abyss that is the private sector, I think that's honestly his only chance at having a comfortable life as he seems like he actually Gets poo poo Done within the parameters of his literary pursuits and produces content that people like

Jesus 200k for an MFA though...that's a lot of money for something that is easily google-able and can be taught via self-driven practice and simple imitation of people who are better than you + reading, reading, reading. I always wondered what the MFA's at my school were thinking long-term but the topic never came up so I was simply left to speculate as to why these very bright individuals were paying my alma matter tens of thousands of dollars a year simply to hone their craft.

KingSlime fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jun 12, 2017

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LLCoolJD
Dec 8, 2007

Musk threatens the inorganic promotion of left-wing ideology that had been taking place on the platform

Block me for being an unironic DeSantis fan, too!

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

What do you suppose this thread's response would be if someone posted "I consigned for a loan and I want to stop paying it"?

Probably favorable, if accompanied by "a judge ruled that the agreement to pay was unenforceable."

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