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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There actually aren't new malls at this point, there has been no malls built in the US in the last 11 years. Of course  they're all "Lifestyle Centers" or whatever marketing wank you care to buy into, so they don't have to use the word that's becoming synonymous with failed suburban retail space.Michael Corleone posted:What is the actual loss to the city if they charged ZERO property tax (just for example) if the mall pays for all the utility tie ins and other things like paying for extra cops and firefighters and the city pays no money at all. All the sales and income tax would still be 'free' revenue, right, or am I lost? That's certainly the theory. The problem is, if a small city takes a big piece of prime real estate and decides to overbuild a commercial district by providing the developer with a property tax abatement they run the risk that if sales tax collected is less than the property tax they would have ended up with if it had remained whatever it previously was. Plus there's some one time costs for the city, usually on the order of a couple million dollars for added road work and street lights that have to be done in preparation for the commercial growth. It certainly can look appealing to a town who perhaps is struggling for revenue but like I said, it's a losing bet if you don't actually have that population to support the location. Anubis fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 15:49
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There actually aren't new malls at this point, there has been no malls built in the US in the last 11 years. Right, because banks finally stopped giving favorable financing terms, towns stopped giving favorable tax rates, and there's no more places where there's enough genuine potential sales to justify building a mall without both of those. There's been plenty of expansion of existing malls that do good business though. For instance the King of Prussia mall recently added another 500,000 square feet of leasable space to total to 2.9 million square feet. Anubis posted:Of course Nah those stupid all outdoor mall things are legit a different, far worse and more inconvenient, thing than a mall. Many of them are also doing terrible.
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Jun 11, 2017 15:57
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fishmech posted:Right, because banks finally stopped giving favorable financing terms, towns stopped giving favorable tax rates, and there's no more places where there's enough genuine potential sales to justify building a mall without both of those. King of Prussia would make a great setting in Fallout 5.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:03
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fishmech posted:Nah those stupid all outdoor mall things are legit a different, far worse and more inconvenient, thing than a mall. Many of them are also doing terrible. Sure, I was just pointing out that I was using the term perhaps more broadly than others might while talking about overbuilding commercial districts. Hell, the same thing happens on a smaller scale with strip malls.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:08
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The big blue pallets are the best as you can stack some heavy poo poo in them.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:13
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fishmech posted:All of them are copying things that various independent restaurants used to do and probably still do. Only of course, those restaurants would tend to be decorated with things the owner of the place or maybe their staff had some sort of connection to. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Modern technology has really streamlined that whole process: The Gang Redecorates the Bar
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Jun 11, 2017 16:15
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Xaris posted:I'm curious what the "typical" mall rents are. I'd imagine there is quite a lot of expenses in HVAC, maintenance, cleaning, and security, and if you start losing stores I wonder if they could even afford to charge less? Mall rent is ludicrously expensive. It's more or less based on square footage, what mall you're in, and a couple other factors. For example, down here in FL, there's an outlet mall that has an Italian restaurant our company used to do service for. Regular sized resturant, and it costs them $40,000 a month just for rent, not including other expenses. The more alive a mall is, the more expensive it is. As they start to die off though they'll start charging less, and open the gates for different stores to come in. ExplodingSims fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 16:28
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ExplodingSims posted:Mall rent is ludicrously expensive. It's more or less based on square footage, what mall you're in, and a couple other factors. Yeah, on the other side of that is the never really established/dying mall my wife managed a discount bookstore in. 20k square feet rented out to the company on a profit sharing scheme.
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Jun 11, 2017 18:28
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ExplodingSims posted:Mall rent is ludicrously expensive. It's more or less based on square footage, what mall you're in, and a couple other factors. When they tried to to export the mall concept to my hometown (in Germany) it took less than 2 years for any major shops that weren't directly visible from the high street entrance to die, and when all these major shops died half the empty space got taken up by specialist shops that thought they could save on rent by moving from the high street to the back of the mall, which resulted in those specialist stores also dying within another two years because customers didn't realise their calligraphy store or whatever actually still existed at the end of a ten minutes walk through the barren wasteland of a dying mall. At the moment I think the only shops left that don't have a window directly facing the high street are lovely €0.99 stores. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 19:03
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I went to king of Prussia three years ago and it was way more high end than I remember it being a decade ago.
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Jun 11, 2017 19:17
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I went to king of Prussia three years ago and it was way more high end than I remember it being a decade ago. I remember back in 1999 (or so) the gaming store that I bought some RPG source book from - not sure if it's still there so many years later.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:18
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Anubis posted:Of course Lifestyle centers don't just seem like rebranded malls though, they seems like a similar end goal of having a bunch of chain stores in one place but at least the ones I've been to seem like pretty conceptually different in how you are expected to interact with them and to some degree what sort of stores they have.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Lifestyle centers don't just seem like rebranded malls though, they seems like a similar end goal of having a bunch of chain stores in one place but at least the ones I've been to seem like pretty conceptually different in how you are expected to interact with them and to some degree what sort of stores they have. Most of them seem to expect you to drive between stores rather than walk, because of how far apart things end up getting and aggravated by their habit of placing massive parking lots all around each little bit.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:19
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fishmech posted:Most of them seem to expect you to drive between stores rather than walk, because of how far apart things end up getting and aggravated by their habit of placing massive parking lots all around each little bit. Or at least are set up in clusters. If you drive to one store there is ten others you can walk to, but if you want to go to a different section you basically leave entirely and come back. Like each section is a destination. They seem better than malls though. They are still manufactured shopping experiences but they seem at least more like a natural shopping district even if they aren't real.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:47
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How is that better than a mall though? You have all the downsides of a mall, but now you get to do it outside in the elements and with no A/C.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:49
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Edit: wrong thread
Name Change fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 22:01
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Horseshoe theory posted:I remember back in 1999 (or so) the gaming store that I bought some RPG source book from - not sure if it's still there so many years later. I don't think it is
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Jun 11, 2017 22:09
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our local 'lifestyle center'-esque mall is nice, and it's next to the light rail and bus line so it's convenient. we walk everywhere to begin with, so maybe I'm biased, but it's absolutely not too big of a place to walk from section to section unless you're unable to walk very long in the first place. I hate car culture but that's a different thing lol sears is one of the anchor stores there, surprisingly. and it's very sad.
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Jun 11, 2017 22:09
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The Snoo posted:sears is one of the anchor stores there, surprisingly. and it's very sad. Don't worry - it's not long for this world.
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Jun 11, 2017 22:47
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ExplodingSims posted:How is that better than a mall though? You have all the downsides of a mall, but now you get to do it outside in the elements and with no A/C. If you like malls as they are then they might not be better for you, I think they seem like ten steps above a mall and like 3 steps below an actual organically formed city commerce district. Like you can get all emo teen and say that because they are designed to be nicer that just means they are even more of a trap than malls but that kinda applies to anything anyone could possibly do as long as chain stores continue to exist.
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Jun 11, 2017 22:50
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I went to king of Prussia three years ago and it was way more high end than I remember it being a decade ago. Horseshoe theory posted:I remember back in 1999 (or so) the gaming store that I bought some RPG source book from - not sure if it's still there so many years later. Nope. KoP is 60% boutique clothing/fashion, 20% food, and 20% everything else
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Jun 11, 2017 23:01
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I still think it is awesome, that Walmart in Germany was successfully prosecuted for having violated, by the treatment of their employees, articles 1 and 2 of the german constitution. Article 1 guarantees human dignity and article 2 personal freedom. Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority. Every person shall have the right to free development of his personality insofar as he does not violate the rights of others or offend against the constitutional order or the moral law.
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Jun 12, 2017 16:02
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Honestly, I don't think it's emo-old-person to not like an quasi-organic "experience" where I worry about getting hit by a car. The outdoor shopping centers out here have Costco anchors. It's horrible.
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Jun 12, 2017 19:38
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The "lifestyle centers" are really nothing like a proper downtown/main street shops at all. They basically combine the worst attributes of a main street shopping district with the worst attributes of a mall and then get surprised that they don't do particularly well. The best versions of them are the ones that realize they're just glorified strip malls and build accordingly, rather than having a fake main street sort of thing separating establishments. Or the ones that are actually far more about office space and residences and local government services (libraries, post offices, community college branches, etc) with a selection of retail mixed in.
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Jun 12, 2017 20:08
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http://www.businessinsider.com/gymboree-files-for-bankruptcy-2017-6 As expected Gymboree has now filed for bankruptcy. It is projected to close 375 to 450 of its 1,281 locations as it attempts to restructure.
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Jun 12, 2017 21:12
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There actually aren't new malls at this point, there has been no malls built in the US in the last 11 years. It involved gutting the food court and bringing in "Name" vendors, changing it to a "food hall" (means you pay more for the name and you get to drink), and adding in a Target, a hip Workout center, and other high end chains. They're in the process of doing the same to the Beverly Center (best known perhaps for being the mall from the 1980 horror movie, CHOPPING MALL). The traditional mall got its poo poo pushed in hard in Los Angeles by Caruso's THE GROVE and its partner in Glendale, THE AMERICANA. The Glendale Galleria survives, though its got some healthy realtor churn (and i'm sure the proximity to Americana helps). Everything else is in varying states of depression or slow death. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 22:53
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FilthyImp posted:They managed to repurpose the On Life Support 7th and Figueroa mall in Downtown Los Angeles into something pretty hip and fun. Have you heard if they're going to revive that terrible mall on Pico? The movie theater's handy but every time I try to do actual shopping there I get hit with how awkwardly-laid-out and ghost-town-y it is.
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Jun 12, 2017 23:07
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FilthyImp posted:The traditional mall got its poo poo pushed in hard in Los Angeles by Caruso's THE GROVE and its partner in Glendale, THE AMERICANA. The Glendale Galleria survives, though its got some healthy realtor churn (and i'm sure the proximity to Americana helps). Everything else is in varying states of depression or slow death. I thought the Del Amo mall and the Redondo Galleria were doing okay. Del Amo was fun for the last few years because there were distinct "Old Mall" and "New Mall" sections. The old section dated to the 70s/80s and hadn't been updated since, with lots of empty storefronts, a dying Sears, and a pawnshop, whereas the new section is indoor-outdoor and has hip new stores that I can't afford to buy stuff from and hip new restaurants that I can't afford to eat at.
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Jun 13, 2017 02:31
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fishmech posted:The "lifestyle centers" are really nothing like a proper downtown/main street shops at all. They basically combine the worst attributes of a main street shopping district with the worst attributes of a mall and then get surprised that they don't do particularly well. At some level real downtown is just an even more glorified strip mall, at some point a store is a store
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Jun 13, 2017 02:45
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Going by this thread there's not a single form of shopping center of commerce you would like and if we had it you're way 30% of the population would be unemployed and everyone would buy their clothing at walmart.
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Jun 13, 2017 02:58
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Going by this thread there's not a single form of shopping center of commerce you would like and if we had it you're way 30% of the population would be unemployed and everyone would buy their clothing at walmart. You're surprised that "goons hate thing" is actually a thing. Speaking of Walmart, it seems like the discount stores are making money hand over fist because stores like Dollar General are growing like weeds in my city. I can count at least three DGs within a 2 mile radius of my place.
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Jun 13, 2017 07:45
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Going by this thread there's not a single form of shopping center of commerce you would like
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Jun 13, 2017 14:07
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Going by this thread there's not a single form of shopping center of commerce you would like and if we had it you're way 30% of the population would be unemployed and everyone would buy their clothing at walmart. Shopping shouldn't be fun, it's a necessary evil. You've bought into our capitalist propaganda too hard, I'm sorry.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:14
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Going by this thread there's not a single form of shopping center of commerce you would like and if we had it you're way 30% of the population would be unemployed and everyone would buy their clothing at walmart. A normal-rear end mall is just fine.
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Jun 13, 2017 15:01
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The main reason I don't buy anything from real stores anymore is because shopping is a giant hassle. It seems like every new store that goes up is erected on some cheap land in-between towns, or down a dead-end road to nowhere. The two shopping centers that have gone up on the edge of town are humongous, to the point where you can't even really walk from store to store. It's a negative experience if I want one specific thing, and it is a negative experience if I just want to go out and browse around.
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Jun 13, 2017 15:02
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The main reason I don't buy anything from real stores anymore is because shopping is a giant hassle. It seems like every new store that goes up is erected on some cheap land in-between towns, or down a dead-end road to nowhere. The two shopping centers that have gone up on the edge of town are humongous, to the point where you can't even really walk from store to store. This is why we kind of derailed into real estate chat, there seems to be a lack of awareness around commercial owners that, from a functional economy standpoint theyre doing too much literal rent seeking and its hurting economic development.
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Jun 13, 2017 15:12
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You take whatever incentives and tax rebates you can get and hope that before they expire in however many years you either sell the mess off or magic happens and it makes money.
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Jun 13, 2017 15:27
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fishmech posted:A normal-rear end mall is just fine. No they aren't. They're all dying and when they die they take a shitload of maintanance and are hard as gently caress and expensive as gently caress to convert to anything usable. Lifestyle centers are much better
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Jun 13, 2017 15:31
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:No they aren't. They're all dying No, they absolutely aren't. ISeeCuckedPeople posted:
No, they aren't.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:21
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is this a lifestyle center or just poo poo development? https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...2!4d-84.0632685
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Jun 13, 2017 16:34
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