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Dongsturm posted:If you read the instructions on the screen, you would have known what to do It's adorable that you're still mad, but you should go ahead and pay for Cogmind so you can see for yourself that it doesn't say anything on the subject.
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Jun 13, 2017 10:34
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:It's adorable that you're still mad, but you should go ahead and pay for Cogmind so you can see for yourself that it doesn't say anything on the subject. Please keep posting huge explanations of how you are never wrong, even after the game's creator drops by to set you straight, you shameless sperg.
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Jun 13, 2017 10:43
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Dongsturm posted:Please keep posting huge explanations of how you are never wrong, even after the game's creator drops by to set you straight, you shameless sperg. Please carry on your petty grudges to another thread, you really light up the room.
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Jun 13, 2017 10:44
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Fight fight fight fight fight!
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Jun 13, 2017 10:51
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After 40 hours I beat ToME as a gunslinger 
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Jun 13, 2017 10:52
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 CHILL OUT, friends!
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Jun 13, 2017 11:02
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Daztek posted:After 40 hours I beat ToME as a gunslinger So you did in on the first run then?
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Jun 13, 2017 11:10
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Seriously why the gently caress is ToME so loving long, I'm working my way through as a Brawler (WHY THE gently caress ISNT THIS A DEFAULT CLASS?!?!?!) and I've spent so long and am only now getting to Dreadfall, this is disgustingly long, wheres the notime to grind mode which also cuts out the east for being bad?
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Jun 13, 2017 13:41
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Cerepol posted:Seriously why the gently caress is ToME so loving long, I'm working my way through as a Brawler (WHY THE gently caress ISNT THIS A DEFAULT CLASS?!?!?!) and I've spent so long and am only now getting to Dreadfall, this is disgustingly long, wheres the notime to grind mode which also cuts out the east for being bad? There's a mod called QuickTome that completely overhauls the game to disincentivize grinding and speed things up: https://te4.org/addons/tome?s=quicktome&tag= If that's a little too extreme, the Orc campaign is much shorter than the main campaign while also boosting your experience rate. Also, playing on a higher difficulty, while it doesn't make the game any shorter, does at least greatly increase the rate at which you level.
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Jun 13, 2017 13:54
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I can understand why ToME was so important and influential, but why do people still play it, if it's half as player-unfriendly as it sounds?
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Jun 13, 2017 14:00
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PMush Perfect posted:I can understand why ToME was so important and influential, but why do people still play it, if it's half as player-unfriendly as it sounds? It's not player-unfriendly at all, just the opposite, in fact. It was one of the first roguelikes to really embrace modern design and it does away with a lot of the sacred cows that plague the genre, it's just that it's also a very old game and it's equally afflicted with weird little things too deeply ingrained to easily fix.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:06
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The only real problem I have with TOME is that the base game is longer than it needs to be. Well that, and sometimes you'll come across a boss or rare that tears you a new one quicker than you realize what's happening and your toolset simply can't kill it. But playing on Normal or even Nightmare is a very comfortable experience where that scenario is rare.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:14
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There's also a lot of depth to the game because of the huge number of classes and builds you can do. You can't find stuff like the temporal warden or chronomancer anywhere else, and once you get into the higher difficulties the game become even more fun because of the decision making involved in every fight. I know I pretty much never stick around long enough on a character to really finish a campaign, but it's always fun trying new stuff for a couple hours.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:16
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Making insane Adventurer fusion classes is fun as hell too. I really need to try the DLC and see if I can make a psionic gunslinger who triple-wields pistols.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:18
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ToME has: - Incredibly good class design. There are a few old classes but the post-rework ones all have very distinct playstyles, tons of internal synergy, and they're designed to make the player feel like a god (right up until something explodes them.) Resource and cooldown management is a non-trivial puzzle for most classes, too, especially on higher difficulties where it's less about burst damage and more about being able to put out a consistent level of DPS without dying. - Fairly good encounter and level design. It's not as good as Caves of Qud in this respect, and not every interesting idea actually plays out perfectly in-game (see: Sandworm Lair) but the game does a pretty good job of keeping things varied. You've got trick bosses, vaults with challenging layouts and contents; basically if the game gives you a cool but niche ability it will throw situations at you that require it. - Diablo-style loot. Good items in ToME have a laundry list of modifiers, although admittedly on lower difficulties I think it takes a little too long and a little too much luck to get the really exciting stuff. Uniques are really flavorful and in some cases can have a drastic effect on how your character plays, and randarts have that gambling-esque allure of finding something with the perfect combination of stats. - No hunger clock, no consumables. I suspect this is a huge part of why it's so popular. e: Also I'd say ToME is one of the few roguelikes balanced such that winning feels like a question of mastering your character's options and executing them properly over a long period of time, rather than finding the lever that breaks each stage of the game and applying it. (Or in the case of very high difficulty levels, it's a little of both.  )
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 14:19
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After playing a bunch of MidBoss I've come to appreciate the inventory management in TOME4. Nice bit of room and the automatic salvaging makes it breeze. The lack of consumables polluting your inventory is really nice too.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:30
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ToME draws me in when I get to do the tactical cooldown based fight its builts for. I see a cool Rare boss, and ensure a proper tactical fight, backing off if necessary to reset cooldowns, proper management of infusions/runes. Using my abilties and managing your resource(s) to ensure you don't run out of steam (also a resource) too early and have him chunk you down.Tuxedo Catfish posted:There's a mod called QuickTome that completely overhauls the game to disincentivize grinding and speed things up: https://te4.org/addons/tome?s=quicktome&tag= I see thats by Minmay, a pretty prolific crawl poster, I guess I'm not too surprised they did a mod for ToME to make it more streamlined. QuickTome Zone Overhaul posted:Yes, this makes it impossible to get some unlocks and to enter the Infinite Dungeon from the main game. Boo hoo. yep thats definitely the minmay style. Cerepol fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 14:43
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I was playing a sun paladin, the start was a bit rocky but once I got some talents it went really well... until I met 3 luminous horrors that I couldn't kill because they heal and get healed from my light damage 
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Jun 13, 2017 15:00
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Are there any good TOME let's plays people can vouch for? Or is it kind of a waste and best experienced?
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Jun 13, 2017 15:08
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Dandywalken posted:Are there any good TOME let's plays people can vouch for? Or is it kind of a waste and best experienced? The game is free, I'd just give it a shot. (The version on Steam that costs a few bucks automatically puts you in as a "donator" which unlocks a class and a handful of perks, but you can always just download it direct from the ToME website.)
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Jun 13, 2017 15:13
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Oh didn't realize it was free, will definitely check it out myself when I get the chance. Hopefully will resurrect my old Arcanum character if I end up buying the expansion with gunslinger too! 
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Jun 13, 2017 15:20
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:ToME has Diablo-style loot. Diablo-style loot-splosion is a plague that's been hopping games and genres, and bringing nothing good to any of them. This is not to be listed as a virtue.
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Jun 13, 2017 15:53
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Serephina posted:Diablo-style loot-splosion is a plague that's been hopping games and genres, and bringing nothing good to any of them. This is not to be listed as a virtue. Yeah, I kinda miss the 2.x style of items to be honest. Which wasn't super-concise or anything but it was far more obvious as to what would be better for you in general (specifically, I loved that it would actually list out the average damage for each monster type in the extended desceription). Diablo-style looting is what makes me not play Diablo games
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Jun 13, 2017 16:00
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No Safe Word posted:Yeah, I kinda miss the 2.x style of items to be honest. Which wasn't super-concise or anything but it was far more obvious as to what would be better for you in general (specifically, I loved that it would actually list out the average damage for each monster type in the extended desceription). Diablo-style looting is what makes me not play Diablo games Whenever I'm playing something like PoE or Grim Dawn and I'm using a loot filter I kinda question what's the point of 'loot' if it equates to 'trash'.
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Jun 13, 2017 17:10
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Whenever I'm playing something like PoE or Grim Dawn and I'm using a loot filter I kinda question what's the point of 'loot' if it equates to 'trash'. I mean... it makes sense from a programming perspective. It can be hard to define what makes loot good, let alone code a thing that generates it consistently. Especially since it depends on the player's character and changes over the life of the game. On the other hand, if you just generate like 50 swords without regard for quality, well... probably there's a good one in there somewhere, and the player can pick it out herself. Problem solved. It can be annoying to players and has plenty of other downsides (e.g. how does the player learn what to pick?) but at least there's a reason for it. e: on the other hand, you're right; if you can write a simple loot filter that works reliably, then... why not just use it to not generate trash in the first place? There's zero point in dropping, for instance, loot that the player is incapable of equipping. megane fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 17:26
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I'm sure there are people out there that actually enjoy sorting through massive piles of dross in the hopes that they'll find a sword that's 1% better than their current one. Indeed such players might be one of the major target demographics for the game, since Diablo-style loot systems bear more than a passing resemblance to gambling. Also, it's worth bearing in mind how satisfying it is to kill something and have it explode in a shower of bling, even if that bling is useless.
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Jun 13, 2017 17:34
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It's basically just income in another form. Melting down or selling a giant pile of junk feels very satisfying. In the case of the actual Diablo games it was also part of a larger design decision to encourage the player to go back to town every once in a while, which created lulls in the action that helped prevent burnout on the actual gameplay as such.
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Jun 13, 2017 17:36
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In fairness, the massive quantity of loot in ToME4 barely even changes the flow of gameplay 95% of the time; you might find yourself stopping to look at anything high-quality and/or of an item type that you're actively interested in, but otherwise, you just indiscriminately chuck it all into the Magic Wealth Box to turn it into gold or gems and never give it a second glance.
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Jun 13, 2017 17:47
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I actually picked up wasted in the bundle, played it and killed a few people and noticed they had a ton of loot to sort through and noped right out of there. Looking at and comparing loot constantly isn't very fun.
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Jun 13, 2017 17:49
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Even Diablo doesn't use pure Diablo-looting anymore--the current state of 3 is such that good loot is marked on the minimap and generally useful for your character, but always useful to some class (so you can grind alts or help friends), you never find +Int Barbarian gear for instance. Even the piles of trash can be made into useful crafting components, though you'll still end up with piles and piles of components. I haven't personally found ToME's loot to be burdensome since you just burn most of it though even with a mod the gear comparison is not great.
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Jun 13, 2017 17:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:It's basically just income in another form. Melting down or selling a giant pile of junk feels very satisfying. Yeah, the transmog chest was a godsend, though gold also doesn't really have THAT much meaning in ToME since you don't have to get Fireproof Scrolls of *Identify* or rod tips or whatever anymore (or really, much of anything in the shops past a certain point)I'm sure I'm in the minority but if ToME 2.x was basically the same but with the transmog chest, no hunger clock, the orb of scrying, and (at least some of) the classes of ToME 4, I'd play the everloving poo poo out of that. Part of it was the Tolkein mystique (which obviously is problematic from a copyright/trademark standpoint), but most of the other mechanics were really good already.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:06
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No Safe Word posted:Yeah, the transmog chest was a godsend, though gold also doesn't really have THAT much meaning in ToME since you don't have to get Fireproof Scrolls of *Identify* or rod tips or whatever anymore Gold actually becomes really important later on since it lets you purchase tier 5 randarts from a certain vendor -- and high level randarts in ToME are awesome and illustrate why I like ToME's loot in general. Low-level trash might be kind of boring, but finding something like this:  is an amazing feeling (especially early in the game, which was the case in that run) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 18:13
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I have tried playing Tome 4 several times but all the tilesets I tried felt unfinished, or they just irritated me. Is there one that's as polished as, say, the Crawl tiles, or is there a way to set the GUI version of the game to some kind of ASCII mode? (I have probably asked this question in this very thread a while back, sorry)
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Jun 13, 2017 18:24
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Lutha Mahtin posted:I have tried playing Tome 4 several times but all the tilesets I tried felt unfinished, or they just irritated me. Is there one that's as polished as, say, the Crawl tiles, or is there a way to set the GUI version of the game to some kind of ASCII mode? There's an ASCII mode. They're implemented as tiles, which means on the upside you can adjust the size and look in a bunch of ways, but also means it looks a little weird when everything is ASCII except the particle effects for spells going off still look the same.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:26
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Gold actually becomes really important later on since it lets you purchase tier 5 randarts from a certain vendor -- and high level randarts in ToME are awesome and illustrate why I like ToME's loot in general. I don't play TOME but my impression of this is that you'd run into the same issues Torchlight (and pre-rework Diablo 3) loot had where there were so many effects on any given piece of gear that it all bled together into a slurry of stats. Am I off the mark?
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Jun 13, 2017 23:45
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It definitely pushes against that boundary pretty hard. I feel like they could cut the number of distinct "adjectives" each item gets in half and double the effect of each and it would feel more coherent.
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Jun 13, 2017 23:52
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Hey so the store page for my DLC finally got approved. 12 days in Steam limbo, I had to resort to calling in favors annnnnd five minutes later: http://store.steampowered.com/app/636410/Dungeonmans__Pay2Lose/ Give me ameridollars so your gear can break and you can starve to death among myriad other bullshits. 
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Jun 14, 2017 00:13
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so as someone who does not find the game too easy that isnt for me right
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Jun 14, 2017 00:16
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Awesome! posted:so as someone who does not find the game too easy that isnt for me right Yes but have you considered how much more fun you'd have if there was a 1 in 20 chance of your boots breaking every time you got hit. 1 in 10? 5? Maybe what you really need to inspire yourself to do better is to have all Champions spawn an additional Nurphe Bat as a pet?
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Jun 14, 2017 00:30
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madjackmcmad posted:Hey so the store page for my DLC finally got approved. Congrats!It amuses me to no end that 'bragging rights' is the first reason stated to get the DLC.
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Jun 14, 2017 00:31
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