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Spiritus Nox posted:It will change to a tune of intimidation and voter suppression and violence. They tried this in 2012 and the response was minority communities turning out to vote in record numbers. Basically, their attitude was "Suppress my vote? Well, gently caress you, I'm gonna vote anyway".
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Jun 13, 2017 16:03
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Spiritus Nox posted:It will change to a tune of intimidation and voter suppression and violence. Change?
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Jun 13, 2017 16:04
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Alter Ego posted:They tried this in 2012 and the response was minority communities turning out to vote in record numbers. Basically, their attitude was "Suppress my vote? Well, gently caress you, I'm gonna vote anyway". We didn't have fascists in the white house and DOJ in 2012.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:04
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Night10194 posted:The thing is, how did 'Oh, it was just Martha Coakley' end up working out for the dems? Elizabeth Warren has that seat now, right?
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Jun 13, 2017 16:04
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evilweasel posted:Pence definitely will if given the chance, but he needs the 50 people to back up his ruling. There's no indication he has that. Why wouldn't they? If 50 Republicans back up the bill, in what works do they not back up the VP saying they can vote on it?
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Jun 13, 2017 16:04
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Night10194 posted:The thing is, how did 'Oh, it was just Martha Coakley' end up working out for the dems? Wait, what? Coakley lost both her elections--2010 for Senate and 2014 for Governor.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:05
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Why wouldn't they? If 50 Republicans back up the bill, in what works do they not back up the VP saying they can vote on it? The Byrd Rule isn't just a rule of the Senate. It's law. They'd need to be willing to break the law, and a lot of them have said on the record they're not willing to go there.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:06
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evilweasel posted:Yeah, Rosenstein made it pretty clear he'll resign rather than follow the order. Well, not so much that he'll resign, he'll just ignore the order and if Trump doesn't like it he can fire Rosenstein. At that point he would have to start going down the list of career people rather than political appointees, I think, so he might have to go real far down before he gets someone who will follow the order.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:07
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evilweasel posted:The Byrd Rule isn't just a rule of the Senate. It's law. They'd need to be willing to break the law, and a lot of them have said on the record they're not willing to go there. Isn't it the law that the VP can overrule the parliamentarian?
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Jun 13, 2017 16:07
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For what it's worth, Rosenstein is testifying right now: http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-live-rod-rosenstein-speaks-with-senate-appropriations-committee-livestream/ I'm excited for Keebler Klansmen in Kongress later on!
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Jun 13, 2017 16:08
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Alter Ego posted:They tried this in 2012 and the response was minority communities turning out to vote in record numbers. Basically, their attitude was "Suppress my vote? Well, gently caress you, I'm gonna vote anyway". and then regressives tried harder in 2016 and were successful.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:08
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Alter Ego posted:Wait, what? Coakley lost both her elections--2010 for Senate and 2014 for Governor. I'm saying 'telling ourselves it was just her being a bad candidate and losing to Scott Brown sure as hell didn't help us prepare for 2010 and won't help the GOP afford the reaming that is hopefully coming their way.'
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Jun 13, 2017 16:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xes9wMLV-LI
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Jun 13, 2017 16:14
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Can't Mike Pence just overrule the parliamentarian? You can, but that bumps the Byrd Rule and you'd need 60 votes instead of 50.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:14
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Isn't it the law that the VP can overrule the parliamentarian? Yes. Another way to think of it might be it's not just breaking the law, but it's (in practice) abolishing the filibuster, which is something Republicans have not been willing to do. They'd rather pass nothing and keep the filibuster.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:15
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evilweasel posted:The goal would be to refocus national attention on what is going on. I think they should do it, but starting after the Sessions hearing/sanctions vote. There is no public text and it is already very underwater. I disagree that this isn't already a major national story.... and doubt that toothless Dem Obstruction will make it a bigger story than the Nixon speedrun. mcmagic posted:I don't think process stories really break through to voters who aren't already plugged in. They should deny consent and shut down the senate to prevent bad things from being passed. Alter Ego posted:Yes. It's one thing to pointlessly hold out on a Cabinet or sub-Cabinet nominee that has widespread approval, but this is something that should be done on principle. This bill will kill people, plain and simple, and Democrats better do anything they can to stop it becoming law. But... they can't? Like, if they could shut down the senate, that would be one thing. At most, they can gum up the works and delay things a short bit. I don't believe they can even delay until the recess-literally, you can annoy GOP senators who are not working on a tight timeline anyway. So what's the endgame? Again, it's toothless obstruction. Al Borland Corp. posted:Why wouldn't they? If 50 Republicans back up the bill, in what works do they not back up the VP saying they can vote on it? They don't want to hand that tool back over to the Dems. And they're right to not want to-because they'd start ramming that down their throats in 2020. Dems will go nuclear and everything else, but they won't be the first across that bridge.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:15
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Blaming Democrats for every bad thing the Republicans do is the favorite pastime of the left. e: Joementum has a take on this: https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/874646655232028672 Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 16:17
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Paracaidas posted:There is no public text and it is already very underwater. I disagree that this isn't already a major national story.... and doubt that toothless Dem Obstruction will make it a bigger story than the Nixon speedrun. Not a single major newspaper had it on their front page. It's underwater, but fire isn't being directed at the weaker votes on the bill and Republicans are very, very open about the fact that public backlash may cost them the votes they need.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:17
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evilweasel posted:Pence definitely will if given the chance, but he needs the 50 people to back up his ruling. There's no indication he has that. You think Mitch McConnell gives a poo poo?
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Jun 13, 2017 16:17
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evilweasel posted:Yeah, Rosenstein made it pretty clear he'll resign rather than follow the order. Well, not so much that he'll resign, he'll just ignore the order and if Trump doesn't like it he can fire Rosenstein. At that point he would have to start going down the list of career people rather than political appointees, I think, so he might have to go real far down before he gets someone who will follow the order. I wonder which he'll find first: an order-follower or someone who plays along for long enough to get Trump to directly incriminate himself before finally saying nope. Comedy option: someone who promises to remove Mueller from the Russia investigation and fulfills that promise only to immediately appoint him to investigate the White House's role in obstruction of justice.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:18
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When will this madness END? https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/874646427091251201
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Jun 13, 2017 16:19
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Paracaidas posted:
Then you gum up the works. You delay, you filibuster, you force roll call votes, I don't care if you get pizzas delivered on the floor. Every day this bill isn't law is another day it's not hurting people. You do WHATEVER YOU loving CAN. This right here? This is why you keep your goddamn powder dry.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:19
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mcmagic posted:You think Mitch McConnell gives a poo poo? Yes. They spent a lot of time shooting down this idea already. I think McConnell is completely fine with this bill going down in defeat and would rather that happen than the filibuster be effectively abolished.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:20
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Donald J Trump, Tomorrow is June 14th, 2017. On this day, I will turn 35 years old. I have one request for my birthday. Please loving fire Jeff Session when he refuses to end his recusal and terminate Robert Mueller. Then fire Rod Rosenstein and then fire Dana Buente when neither of them agree to fire Robert Mueller. Once you've laid the hat trick and found Robert Bork Jr to agree to fire him, I want you to go on TV and assure the nation that Russia is our friend, and that you did not collude, but even if you did it wouldn't be a big deal, because it's good to cooperate with your partners. Do all of that on my loving birthday, please Donald Jayronymous Trumpletonsville III. Do it please. Do it. do iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit My boner would never go away.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:21
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canepazzo posted:When will this madness END? 98% of it is because Donnie is pissed that his last name isn't King.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:21
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canepazzo posted:When will this madness END? SK's humor has always been an underrated aspect of his work. I bet he'd be a fun conversation.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:21
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canepazzo posted:When will this madness END? I'm starting to think those people who say this sort of thing is unconstitutional have a point. Blocking someone from sending the President tweets is one thing, but blocking them from reading official White House statements sounds pretty loving dictatorial.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:22
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Chilichimp posted:Donald J Trump, June 14 is also Donald Trump's birthday
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Jun 13, 2017 16:22
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Shifty Pony posted:I wonder which he'll find first: an order-follower or someone who plays along for long enough to get Trump to directly incriminate himself before finally saying nope. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF TRUMP INCRIMINATES HIMSELF HE HAS ALREADY INCRIMINATED HIMSELF REPEATEDLY, ON A LOT OF ISSUES THE GOP DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER CARE
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Jun 13, 2017 16:22
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The other reason for the Pence thing is if they do that, suddenly all of the "we can't do that, it can't pass reconciliation" arguments they used to get the HFC to drop various demands suddenly collapses. If they overrule the Parliamentarian on one thing, why not on all the things? It opens a huge can of worms, much more than you'd think.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:23
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nachos posted:June 14 is also Donald Trump's birthday Disturbingly yuge if true
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Jun 13, 2017 16:23
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nachos posted:June 14 is also Donald Trump's birthday God Damnit! I must be his loving horcrux. Neither can live until the other is impeached.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:24
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Spiritus Nox posted:IT DOESN'T MATTER IF TRUMP INCRIMINATES HIMSELF Still genuinely don't understand why the depressed nothing matters people even follow politics anymore instead of doomsday prepping or some poo poo.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:24
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How much time does Trump spend on twitter blocking people? Does it take extra effort to protect your tweets from someone?
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Jun 13, 2017 16:25
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trump blocking everyone on twitter https://twitter.com/votevets/status/874599756143755264 hes the loving president
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Jun 13, 2017 16:25
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Sinteres posted:Still genuinely don't understand why the depressed nothing matters people even follow politics anymore instead of doomsday prepping or some poo poo. Self-flagellation has been a thing for centuries, nay, millennia, comrade Now let's hear how this is all the Democrats' fault 
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Jun 13, 2017 16:25
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Chilichimp posted:God Damnit!
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Jun 13, 2017 16:26
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LaserShark posted:I'm starting to think those people who say this sort of thing is unconstitutional have a point. Blocking someone from sending the President tweets is one thing, but blocking them from reading official White House statements sounds pretty loving dictatorial. There's also the issue of Presidential statements being issued via a private corporation with no accountability or security requirements whatsoever.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:27
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Sinteres posted:Still genuinely don't understand why the depressed nothing matters people even follow politics anymore instead of doomsday prepping or some poo poo. The same reason the Bad Dems thread exists, they're bored and addicted to performative outrage.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:27
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Cheesus posted:If it helps, me and my brother-in-law also have birthdays on June 14. Time for the June 14th babies to come together and sacrifice ourselves to bring about the immortal emperor to strike down the tangerine tyrant.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:27
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