SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Aurubin posted:

Macron won due to abysmal turnout for parliamentary elections. The only people excited for that election voted for him. The PS pulled an Obama/Clinton and the "French party of socialism" ran to the center and actively told it's base to gently caress off. Where did that get them? Hollande leaves with approval ratings in the single digits, Hamon was 4th in the first round of the presidential elections, and almost wholly annihilated in parliament.

People know. But apathy is as much of a choice as voting.

This reads like Silent Majority stuff

# ? Jun 13, 2017 16:54

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# ? May 27, 2024 00:23

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Concerned Citizen posted:

well the fact that hospitals/pharma now negotiate with a single insurer that they have to make a deal with will be pretty significant as well, hence why medicare/medicaid can get big cost savings

56% are covered by private insurance, which is 33% of spending
37% are covered by Medicare/Medicaid, which is 37% of spending

I know there's an older/sicker component to Medicare/Medicaid spending, but I'm not sure that we're gonna see like a 33% drop alone

Again, none of this is to say that we shouldn't do single payer - we absolutely should - but I think there's other things at issue involving cost of health care

But the good news is post-single payer we can address those cost drivers without financially ruinous effects to individuals

# ? Jun 13, 2017 16:54

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

zegermans posted:

My point is I'm not sure the groundswell of leftist support is as big as ya'll think based off a guy who picked up more seats than expected to a person who spent the last few weeks talking about taking Alzheimer's patients homes away from them and hinting at Muslim internment camps when her 20k police officer cuts seemed to backfire.

the conservative coalition is going to collapse in the next few months, if not the next few weeks, and another election would be necessary at that point, which

SKULL.GIF posted:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/873674408224862210

# ? Jun 13, 2017 16:56

mormonpartyboat: Jan 14, 2015; by Reene

xposting here to show off the glory of jim messina

https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/874640933706452992

quote:

In the event, Ms Macleod was humiliated. The election last Thursday ended with a massive 13.6% swing to Labour. Ms Cadbury romped home by 12,182 votes. It was much the same story in other west London marginals: even the Tory bastion of Kensington fell to Labour.

Tories involved in the Brentford and Isleworth campaign have spoken to The Economist to describe how it went so badly wrong. They are mainly angry and frustrated with their party's central office. As they see it, the most serious problem for local campaigners was that Conservative Central Headquarters (CCHQ) insisted on taking almost total control. In particular, staff at central office insisted that there should be no campaigning on local issues, and then tried to micro-manage local canvassing. A list of 10,000 voters was produced from CCHQ data-crunchers; these were the people whom central office had identified as the swing voters who would bring the seat back to the Tories. Local canvassers were supposed to have �10,000 conversations� with these voters, and these voters alone.

At a stroke, therefore, the accumulation of local knowledge was set aside and the pre-prepared community events and meetings downgraded, according to those involved. Whereas Ms Cadbury campaigned vigorously and in detail on local issues�such as schools, the fate of the accident and emergency unit at a local hospital, the expansion of Heathrow airport�Mr Macleod was boxed into parroting the mantra of �strong and stable leadership.�

quote:

After the May bank holiday weekend, with just a week or so to go before polling, local officials received a long e-mail from central office on how the rest of the campaign should be fought. It said:

"Research has shown that in this seat any mention of local issues will push voters to Labour. I know it is tempting to discuss local issues as this is Labour�s approach, but we must not be tempted. If we once discuss local issues on literature, social media or the doorsteps, we risk losing this seat. I know you have put together pledges that you wanted to get out in the final few days, this simple cannot happen now, if it does we will risk losing the seat. By discussing local pledges you'll push voters away from us."

This extraordinary advice was backed up by a threat. If Brentford and Isleworth did not toe the line then central funding for the local campaign would be cut off:

"It is critical that we now push on with what is advised in this email, this has come from the top following this 72 hour review, and it has been made clear that if we deviate from these plans we will lose the seat. I have also been asked to pass on that if these points are not followed then the DM support from CCHQ for this seat will be pulled."

# ? Jun 13, 2017 16:58

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Fullhouse posted:

the conservative coalition is going to collapse in the next few months, if not the next few weeks, and another election would be necessary at that point, which

My point is the real test of the viability of leftist populism in Britain will be if that sustains when May is no longer around to gently caress every chicken she finds in her way

# ? Jun 13, 2017 16:59

Agnosticnixie: Jan 6, 2015

zegermans posted:

This reads like Silent Majority stuff

It reads like being able to read the results; France Insoumise's electoral alliance collapsed hard enough that its constituent parties would be first in most of the runoffs had they stuck together.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 16:59

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

ex post facho posted:

taibbi accurately describes the posting in C-SPAM ca. October 2015-June 2017

I swear I was one of the only ones (if not the only one) here harping on about this past (and currently still ongoing) election season is about Agency.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:00

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Shear Modulus posted:

3. (this is a big one) patents for drugs last a longer time than any other country without price controls. this prevents US companies from making generics

this is not true, btw

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:00

Concerned Citizen: Jul 22, 2007; Ramrod XTreme

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

you're then calling for a near-$3t haircut to the healthcare (care, not insurance) industry

and like it's one thing when you've been calling for eliminating the insurance industry, which everyone (or at least everyone who matters to implementing a single payer plan) agrees are parasites

the political discussion that's going on around single payer is nowhere near the the "we need to politically go after the AMA" stage we'd need to get there, I don't think

really, any healthcare reform has to do that. at the end of the day, a broken leg in the US can cost $20k to fix while it's a couple thousand in the rest of the world. it's not really insurance. you gotta deal with that.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:00

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

mormonpartyboat posted:

xposting here to show off the glory of jim messina

https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/874640933706452992

thes epeople will once again run the next campaign and this will happen in the USA

inshallah

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:04

Serf: May 5, 2011

maybe if we taxed the rich we could pay for healthcare

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:04

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

UHD posted:

how could the dems actually stop them

I get they should do everything they can and they're idiots if they don't even try but if the republicans want to pass their lovely bill the dems can't actually stop them

dems should at least force them to invoke the nuclear option and stage protests

if there's anything you could filibuster and make a grand show of, this is it

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:06

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

hi if you're going to talk about how single payer costs would work given the various effects that would have on care distribution and price controls just refer to the NNU/Bernie Think Tank paper that goes over how all of that would go

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:06

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

[Gilbert Gottfried Voice] "THE #RESISTANCE!"

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:06

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Serf posted:

maybe if we taxed the rich we could pay for healthcare

I read this, then it brought up that Thatcher quote about socialism in my head, then I remembered she was turbo-dead and it made me smile

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:07

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

comedyblissoption posted:

dems should at least force them to invoke the nuclear option and stage protests

further more no one has actually seen this bill. at the least they could shut it down until it's made public

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:07

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Condiv posted:

at this point the dems are either the most idiotic group of politicians on earth or extremely malicious and cynical pretending to be idiots. in either case, why would you vote for them for leadership? the republicans loving tricked them out of a SC seat, they're tricking them out of ppaca, and they'll probably "trick" them out of social security and medicare next time.

just vote for leftists and don't bother with lovely dems anymore. they hate life and cannot govern, and even republicans don't make as good of stooges (remember, it was loving republicans who saved social security from being gutted by dems!)

i'm pretty sure ossoff would be the type of democrat to support gutting medicare and social security as the fiscally responsible thing to do in a show of compromise and decorum

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:07

Serf: May 5, 2011

zegermans posted:

I read this, then it brought up that Thatcher quote about socialism in my head, then I remembered she was turbo-dead and it made me smile

post the quote

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:08

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

zegermans posted:

My point is the real test of the viability of leftist populism in Britain will be if that sustains when May is no longer around to gently caress every chicken she finds in her way

I think it's worth noting that turnout in marginal demographics ballooned -- Corbyn's Labour expanded the electorate. It's not like a pre-existing electorate took a look at both candidates and were turned off by May's performance. They registered and turned out when they ordinarily would have stayed home.

That focus on expanding the electorate is something Obama did pretty well in 2008.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:08

Concerned Citizen: Jul 22, 2007; Ramrod XTreme

comedyblissoption posted:

dems should at least force them to invoke the nuclear option and stage protests

if there's anything you could filibuster and make a grand show of, this is it

you can't filibuster it, mcconnell can simply come up one day and say "we're voting today." the discussion is whether they grind the senate to a halt by withholding unanimous consent on bills (forcing a vote on literally everything the senate does), grinding the senate to a halt and loving up the calendar. and the argument from some dems is that mcconnell will simply shift around the calendar when he finds it convenient while blowing up other areas where dems were hoping to gain ground, and some others say it will force him to delay things.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:09

Aurubin: Mar 17, 2011

mormonpartyboat posted:

xposting here to show off the glory of jim messina

https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/874640933706452992

Yeah I've come to the conclusion that Obama won wholly on the merits of being Obama, master orator and campaigner, and that the people who worked for him were almost entirely incidental. Especially after reading that article. They triangulated 10,000 swing voters! And lost by 12,000 in that district!

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:09

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

zegermans posted:

My point is the real test of the viability of leftist populism in Britain will be if that sustains when May is no longer around to gently caress every chicken she finds in her way

That's the thing, the Tories don't have anyone of particularly high stature to replace her except maybe BoJo who is a bojoke

and anyone worth giving the job to doesn't want it because right now it is a horrible job

Hot take: the only way May is leaving the prime ministership is if the Tories lose power completely.

Also Macron was elected on a wave of anti-Trump sentiment, not centrist fervor, and continues to sell himself 24/7 as "the new anti-Trump guy" because he knows that's the best thing he can sell without making his donors v angry

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:11

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

Serf posted:

maybe if we taxed the rich we could pay for healthcare

Hi i'm Jon Ossoff and my running mate is Hillary Clinton and this is never going to happen, welcome to jackass

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:11

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

loquacius posted:

That's the thing, the Tories don't have anyone of particularly high stature to replace her except maybe BoJo who is a bojoke

GOVE! *click*

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:12

Agnosticnixie: Jan 6, 2015

The current meme seems to be John Major having a comeback.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:13

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Concerned Citizen posted:

you can't filibuster it, mcconnell can simply come up one day and say "we're voting today." the discussion is whether they grind the senate to a halt by withholding unanimous consent on bills (forcing a vote on literally everything the senate does), grinding the senate to a halt and loving up the calendar. and the argument from some dems is that mcconnell will simply shift around the calendar when he finds it convenient while blowing up other areas where dems were hoping to gain ground, and some others say it will force him to delay things.

if this is the case, can you explain to me why was there such a big show about wanting a filibuster proof majority in the senate for the ACA? was it so they could get what the donors wanted and remove the public option and have some fall guys for this unpopular action?

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:13

Gene Hackman Fan: Dec 27, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

there's a lot of frothy indignation lately over the democrats trying to be pragmatic over the gop's "feed poor people into literal meat grinders" bill. i mean, it's not your relatives suffering death by morselization into a pink slime to be sold to mcdonalds so that the poor who haven't been made into grist can afford cheaper mcnuggies.

unlike you losers i'm clearly the only adult in the room whose livelihood depends on kissing these pragmatics' asses, so maybe you should calm down and maybe they'll take their time before getting to the rest of us.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:13

Serf: May 5, 2011

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

there's a lot of frothy indignation lately over the democrats trying to be pragmatic over the gop's "feed poor people into literal meat grinders" bill. i mean, it's not your relatives suffering death by morselization into a pink slime to be sold to mcdonalds so that the poor who haven't been made into grist can afford cheaper mcnuggies.

unlike you losers i'm clearly the only adult in the room whose livelihood depends on kissing these pragmatics' asses, so maybe you should calm down and maybe they'll take their time before getting to the rest of us.

im so shook rn

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:16

Concerned Citizen: Jul 22, 2007; Ramrod XTreme

comedyblissoption posted:

if this is the case, can you explain to me why was there such a big show about wanting a filibuster proof majority in the senate for the ACA? was it so they could get what the donors wanted and remove the public option and have some fall guys for this unpopular action?

you can only pass certain items with reconciliation due to senate rules. that's why big portions of the aca can't be removed with the ahca. the aca needed 60 votes to actually be any sort of healthcare reform.

in fact, reconciliation WAS used to pass the "fix" bill to get the house onboard with the aca - the 60 vote bill was passed, followed by the fix bill.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:16

Gene Hackman Fan: Dec 27, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

this having-the-same-avatar thing is pretty fun, honestly.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:17

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

im hungry for mcnuggets now

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:17

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

comedyblissoption posted:

if this is the case, can you explain to me why was there such a big show about wanting a filibuster proof majority in the senate for the ACA? was it so they could get what the donors wanted and remove the public option and have some fall guys for this unpopular action?

Senate rules classify this as a reconciliation bill, because it's just a deficit-neutral modification to the ACA, so it can't be filibustered and thus only requires a simple majority to pass

however the Dems should still absolutely shut down everything and raise hell because the GOP passing a secret shadow bill to kill 20 million people is ridiculously evil and they aren't worth negotiating with

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:17

Serf: May 5, 2011

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

this having-the-same-avatar thing is pretty fun, honestly.

i was readin ur post rollin my eyes like i do at every cc post and then i read the username and i got my bean freaked

good parody 10/10

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:19

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

there's a lot of frothy indignation lately over the democrats trying to be pragmatic over the gop's "feed poor people into literal meat grinders" bill. i mean, it's not your relatives suffering death by morselization into a pink slime to be sold to mcdonalds so that the poor who haven't been made into grist can afford cheaper mcnuggies.

unlike you losers i'm clearly the only adult in the room whose livelihood depends on kissing these pragmatics' asses, so maybe you should calm down and maybe they'll take their time before getting to the rest of us.

I'd be more annoyed over it if the alternative didn't stop Sessions from doing his interviews.

They just need to literally say that.
"We're kinda hosed, if we do something Sessions won't even testify because poo poo would stall and not go further"

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:19

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Serf posted:

i was readin ur post rollin my eyes like i do at every cc post and then i read the username and i got my bean freaked

good parody 10/10

its easy to just roll your eyes to every post itt including mine

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:21

Gene Hackman Fan: Dec 27, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

i'm concerned citizen and the democrats are wholly blameless for losing all of those state and federal seats because the voters simply wouldn't accept the more than generous offer we made to them of a single sheet of paper reading "go gently caress yourselves, we've got corporate chode to chug" when bill clinton was in office.

now, if you'll excuse me, mi abuela's deck needs another tongue washing

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:21

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Condiv posted:

this is a dumb take

we're blaming dems for rolling over. hth

take it up with joementum condie

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:21

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

i'm concerned citizen and the democrats are wholly blameless for losing all of those state and federal seats because the voters simply wouldn't accept the more than generous offer we made to them of a single sheet of paper reading "go gently caress yourselves, we've got corporate chode to chug" when bill clinton was in office.

now, if you'll excuse me, mi abuela's deck needs another tongue washing

Hey now, he doesn't say they're blameless.

He usually says it's just that it's the way the system works and welp :shrug:

can't really do much about them not changing the system.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:22

Gene Hackman Fan: Dec 27, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

ThndrShk2k posted:

I'd be more annoyed over it if the alternative didn't stop Sessions from doing his interviews.

They just need to literally say that.
"We're kinda hosed, if we do something Sessions won't even testify because poo poo would stall and not go further"

it's almost like if democratic leadership had any actual leaders, this wouldn't be the mess they're in right now.

i refuse to cut them slack simply because their hands are tied. fuckers never should have gave the republicans enough rope in the first place.

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:23

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# ? May 27, 2024 00:23

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

ThndrShk2k posted:

I'd be more annoyed over it if the alternative didn't stop Sessions from doing his interviews.

They just need to literally say that.
"We're kinda hosed, if we do something Sessions won't even testify because poo poo would stall and not go further"

the sessions poo poo doesn't matter. the only thing driving the investigation is constant trump meltdowns and he's not going to suddenly stop doing that

# ? Jun 13, 2017 17:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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