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It's a holdover from earlier versions of DF where getting alcohol wasn't piss easy, so a back up drinking source was actually important.
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Jun 12, 2017 16:03
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counterfeitsaint posted:It's a holdover from earlier versions of DF where getting alcohol wasn't piss easy, so a back up drinking source was actually important. When was that? I've been playing since the game was 2d and never once have any of my non-injured dwarves drunk water.
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Jun 12, 2017 17:03
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If you run out of alcohol they drink water.
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Jun 13, 2017 02:08
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counterfeitsaint posted:If you run out of alcohol they drink water. right but why would you
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Jun 13, 2017 02:45
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Addamere posted:right but why would you Because you are terrible at keeping farming going
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Jun 13, 2017 03:08
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But... how? 
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Jun 13, 2017 03:55
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KillHour posted:But... how? If i knew i probably wouldn't fail so much at farming. Nowadays i just work around it by having a large variety and buying seeds/ crops from every caravan.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:04
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10X10 field, plump helmets all year round. You'll be drowning in food and booze.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:11
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KillHour posted:But... how? You can sort of screw yourself by cooking all your seeds
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Jun 13, 2017 04:12
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Starting with a civilization without plump helmets can make it harder to get the alcohol industry started. That's my excuse.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:12
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I think it's usually the barrel industry that people have trouble with more than the farming itself. It's pretty easy to accidentally fill all your barrels with food and run out of barrels for booze if you don't know what you're doing. Especially back before multi-tile trees and before rock pots and pottery when barrels were the only option and wood was comparatively scarce.
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Jun 13, 2017 05:00
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My loss of booze is when I get fed up "Urist cancels brew, no materials/no container" over and over when I set it to repeat and suspend it then forget about it.
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Jun 13, 2017 13:43
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Got this mixed up with the military history thread.
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Jun 13, 2017 13:58
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Just spam out barrels constantly. If you are not deforresting the planet you are doing it wrong anyway. Alternatively large stone pots.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:45
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I get going with stone pots ASAP as they hold twice as much and gently caress the surface.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:47
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Farming was originally a little harder to set up, you had to irrigate with mud and I don't think the UI allowed for automation. There were guides for it even. Nowadays it's basically impossible to screw up.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:30
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Once you get the hang of it, setting up several separate small stockpiles for cooking is actually pretty easy, and necessary if you want your lazy-rear end dwarves to use different ingredients rather than just making plump helmet roasts consisting of plump helmets, plump helmets, plump helmets and plump helmets.
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Jun 13, 2017 23:34
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I see no issue with this, however. e. How long until nutrion will be in the game?
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Jun 13, 2017 23:37
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I kind of want to pretend I'm going to play this again, what's the current state of the art for just getting it going with some nice pictures and whatever sort of external dwarf management mechanism is considered good these days? Is therapist still a thing? I'm on OS X.
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Jun 14, 2017 01:06
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Vengarr posted:Farming was originally a little harder to set up, you had to irrigate with mud and I don't think the UI allowed for automation. There were guides for it even. If there was only one feature that I could have back from the 2D days, it's Nile-style farming. 
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Jun 14, 2017 01:17
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Bad Munki posted:I kind of want to pretend I'm going to play this again, what's the current state of the art for just getting it going with some nice pictures and whatever sort of external dwarf management mechanism is considered good these days? Is therapist still a thing? I'm on OS X. dfhack got its 43.05-r1 release a few weeks ago with a pinch of new features and whatnot, twbt also has caught up and is advancing in the area of rendering the tiles beneath things therapist is apparently still a bit unstable and supported only up to version 43.03 on Mac, but the text-based dwarf manipulator works fine
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Jun 14, 2017 02:07
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Is there an OS X appropriate lazy newb pack type kit available these days?
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Jun 14, 2017 02:12
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Bad Munki posted:Is there an OS X appropriate lazy newb pack type kit available these days? there's something called the Lazy Mac Pack, but that seems to be lagging behind (43.03) on the DFHack-havery front the individual pieces should all be up to snuff, it's just the final assembly that's lacking right now
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Jun 14, 2017 02:32
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Why use therapist when autolabor and labormanager exist?
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Jun 14, 2017 03:07
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scamtank posted:dfhack got its 43.05-r1 release a few weeks ago with a pinch of new features and whatnot, twbt also has caught up and is advancing in the area of rendering the tiles beneath things I've been meaning to ask, scamtank, are you at all involved with work on dfhack?
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Jun 14, 2017 04:41
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Neurion posted:I've been meaning to ask, scamtank, are you at all involved with work on dfhack? somebody stuck my name on the credits, yeah, but it's for tiny stuff like identifying a few memory array pattern field things, commenting the item description index with formatting guidelines and swatting a bug or two the most significant thing was probably when I unfucked the item description plugin's displaying of potential products in plants
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Jun 14, 2017 06:16
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RFC2324 posted:Why use therapist when autolabor and labormanager exist? I dunno about labormanager but autolabor doesn't seem very precise. I want my dwarves to specialize and get good at what they do, and I want the ones with difficult-to-train skills to stay in safety, and so on. Handpicking their job sets is important for that. My typical fort is also capped at 40 dwarves max, sometimes less if I feel especially efficient.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:46
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I haven't played with autolabor but I enjoy hand picking things for each Dwarf on my own.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:34
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I never used autolabor, is it possible to tell it which dwarves it should automanage? I think I'd like to directly control a couple of guys and leave all of the farmers and stuff to the manager.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:41
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I think autolabor handles things just fine for almost all purposes. I think you can still assign workshops to specific dwarves, and if you have a workshop that only that dwarf can use autolabor makes him use it? I'm not sure though. Edit: It's been a while, but even if that's not the case it's easy enough to just 'autolabor disable' which will leave everyone in their current labors at the time of disabling, find the dwarf you want to do the thing, and make him do the thing, and then turn it back on.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:05
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I dunno about labormanager but autolabor doesn't seem very precise. I want my dwarves to specialize and get good at what they do. Why? I mean, I know their products will be of a better quality but is there any reason for caring? As far as I can tell, quality is pretty meaningless. It effects mood, but it's already too easy to keep everyone ecstatic. And it effects trade value but it's already too easy to get ridiculously rich.
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Jun 14, 2017 13:24
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markus_cz posted:Why? I mean, I know their products will be of a better quality but is there any reason for caring? As far as I can tell, quality is pretty meaningless. It effects mood, but it's already too easy to keep everyone ecstatic. And it effects trade value but it's already too easy to get ridiculously rich. Quality makes a big difference in the case of weapons and armor, and secondarily with jobs that produce stacks higher skill = more compact stacks. Also highly skilled dwarves work faster which is important if you're running a microfort and don't have the numbers to achieve speed via parallelization / redundancy.
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Jun 14, 2017 13:27
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It's also another layer of the game that some enjoy. I go through my dwarves preferences and try to put them in jobs that they would like, even if it really doesn't matter.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:01
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autolabor-artisans has it choose the highest skilled dwarves to do jobs. Quality does matter for weapons/armor. But if you're running a military in steel you're probably good even if your Weaponsmith is basically turning out blades with blunt edges.
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Jun 15, 2017 05:37
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I hope some future update, getting skilled workers would require actual effort instead of grabbing some dwarf cheesemaker and going "yyeeeeah you're making armor now, good luck". Making things and such should improve your skill, but there's sort of a baseline point where if you don't know a thing about making cups, then its going to be quite a while before you make anything halfway serviceable. I suppose the knowledge system is working towards that ends, a bit, in that discoveries/technology/whatever has to be shared, so even a dude who is an expert self taught armormaker is going to put out poo poo in comparison to someone who actually had access to a book on the subject of purifying ores or some such thing.
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Jun 15, 2017 05:51
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I hope some future update, getting skilled workers would require actual effort instead of grabbing some dwarf cheesemaker and going "yyeeeeah you're making armor now, good luck". my whole problem with it is that everyone gets to be the eternal legend 100 years of masterpieces guy a thing I just thought of would be like separate skill levels that average into the total level of performance. super-high book learning but nothing else expands the spectrum of potential end results really wide, but the process is very slow and the end result could as easily be something worth a personal brand as intern-level garbage. folks with zero formal knowledge but years of training their hands to make pots make the products pile up at a stellar rate and at a consistently okay quality, but their improvement quickly stagnates to just an above-average grade, potentially leaving the guy fed up with the trade and regressing as a result of their unhappiness and reaching consistently magical quality would demand additional +++ modifiers from individual attributes or other effects. letting the savant goldsmith smoke dimple cup stems for a week straight so he goes into a creative fugue, pulling gold wire thinner and thinner until it's wispier than a spider's web with the sort of sleepy meticulousness that would make a Zen monk scream, so when he emerges from his locked chambers 22 days later wearing nothing but grime and what probably used to be a shirt he's literally created a bale of gold wool. like, a fiber at a time I guess what I'm getting at is that moods should also be more organically linked to the system instead of being power-ups sprinkled in from above according to arbitrary standards of fortress development
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Jun 15, 2017 07:08
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That sounds completely awful from a gameplay perspective. e: I mean I guess it all depends on implementation but when you start talking about skills and happiness regressing if you aren't simulating practice and creative satisfaction huge loving red flags go up. Skill rust is bad enough. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 07:40
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Yeah I generally don't like it when things that I've achieved in games regress if I don't micromanage to keep them up. I wish masterpieces were a bit more rare though, and it'd be nice if strange moods were linked to specific events, like if a dwarf experiences something traumatic he can make an item about it to get it out of his system. Then of course you can make nonlethal trauma chambers for your dwarves to get inspired. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 08:00
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Shibawanko posted:Yeah I generally don't like it when things that I've achieved in games regress if I don't micromanage to keep them up. I wish masterpieces were a bit more rare though, and it'd be nice if strange moods were linked to specific events, like if a dwarf experiences something traumatic he can make an item about it to get it out of his system. It is a right of passage, remarks Urist Attenborough, for the children of this tribe to be locked in a room and pelted with socks, coins, strawberry leaves, and the occasional serving of cat vomit, by the siege operators who fire catapults at all hours.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:10
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Having a dude make lovely pots because he's bored of it all can be annoying, but it can also be cool, if it interplays with various systems and weaves a narrative. In terms of game design, I think there's something to be said for not accommodating what players "like". Players don't really know what they want in lieu of reflexively liking winning and hating losing, and 9 times out of 10 and cannot be trusted to have an opinion, myself included. Anyone would say they like stepping on feathers as opposed to nails, but stepping on a nail sure as gently caress makes a more interesting story for later. And its those dumb weird stories that DF produces that makes it stand out compared to other sim games that worry about stuff like "playability".
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Jun 15, 2017 08:19
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