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Willa Rogers posted:not so fast. i think of alternative systems like japan, france, germany, etc that are multipayer but unlike the US strictly regulate pricing of both care & premiums so that it's entirely universal with guaranteed coverage for everyone. because these systems are closer to what we already have, i think it'd be easier to make people comfortable with it than single payer. that said, if there's ever a political path to single payer i'd of course be for it.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:24
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Stexils posted:tony warhawk's pro skater
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Jun 13, 2017 22:26
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Stexils posted:tony warhawk's pro skater
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Jun 13, 2017 22:28
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Concerned Citizen posted:that said, if there's ever a political path to single payer i'd of course be for it. *zen masterly* You have to want something, before you can get it
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Jun 13, 2017 22:28
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At least fundamentally it seems funny to be making a big deal at trying to impose a single message with every democrat nationwide instead of just running the best candidates you can get with hard primaries and trying to get a majority.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:29
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Concerned Citizen posted:i think of alternative systems like japan, france, germany, etc that are multipayer but unlike the US strictly regulate pricing of both care & premiums so that it's entirely universal with guaranteed coverage for everyone. because these systems are closer to what we already have, i think it'd be easier to make people comfortable with it than single payer. so the exact same thing as our current medicare, only for the entire population, not just seniors and the disabled. I know: let's call it "medicare for all"
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Jun 13, 2017 22:29
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Willa Rogers posted:so the exact same thing as our current medicare, only for the entire population, not just seniors and the disabled. yes well medicare-for-all (as bernie proposes) isn't really totally similar to medicare, is it? one is free of premiums, co-pays, takes care of everything, the other (the actual medicare) has supplemental insurance.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:31
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In 2007, Ezra Klein wrote a pretty good comparative survey of health policy in the US, Canada, Germany, France, and Veterans Affairs for The American Prospect. The Health of Nations. Now klein sucks obviously but back then i guess he was fine.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:31
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Crowdfunding platforms such as GoFundMe and YouCaring have turned sympathy for Americans drowning in medical expenses into a cottage industry. Now Republican efforts in Congress to repeal and replace Obamacare could swell the ranks of the uninsured and spur the business of helping people raise donations online to pay for health care. But medical crowdfunding doesn't have to wait for Congress to act. Business is already booming, and its leaders expect the rapid growth to continue no matter what happens on the Hill. "Whether it's Obamacare or Trumpcare, the weight of health-care costs on consumers will only increase," said Dan Saper, chief executive officer of YouCaring. "It will drive more people to try and figure out how to pay health-care needs, and crowdfunding is in its early days as a way to help those people." *** In a September 2015 LinkedIn post, Solomon wrote that the one million campaigns set up over the previous year had raised $1 billion from nearly 12 million donors. By February 2016, the total was $2 billion. In October 2016, it was $3 billion, from 25 million donors. A NerdWallet study of medical crowdfunding said GoFundMe had indicated that $930 million of the $2 billion raised in the period the study analyzed was from medical campaigns. YouCaring, meanwhile, acquired GiveForward this year; medical fundraisers made up 70 percent of GiveForward's campaigns. The combined companies have 8 million donors who have contributed $800 million to a wide range of campaigns. A big part of that total was donated to medical campaigns, according to the company. It was approaching 50 percent of all fundraisers at YouCaring before the acquisition, and the growth rate is set to triple this year, Saper said.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:32
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https://twitter.com/chrismurphyct/status/874621693741981696 democrats 
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Jun 13, 2017 22:32
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Matt Zerella posted:radical centrism
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Jun 13, 2017 22:33
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The hardcore hillbots are going to call him a russian agent if he's not careful enough.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:34
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Concerned Citizen posted:yes well medicare-for-all (as bernie proposes) isn't really totally similar to medicare, is it? one is free of premiums, co-pays, takes care of everything, the other (the actual medicare) has supplemental insurance. so the "pragmatic" choice, then, would be medicare-as-it-exists-for-all, while the "ponies and unicorns" choice would be the california single-payer bill with no premiums and no deductibles. bc even though medicare has supplemental insurance, those costs are regulated by the government too, and are extremely affordable compared to the ACA exchange plans for non-medicaiders. Willa Rogers has issued a correction as of 22:37 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 22:34
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Willa Rogers posted:so the exact same thing as our current medicare, only for the entire population, not just seniors and the disabled. that'd be great if that were actually what people meant when they said Medicare for all, instead of a new from scratch single payer program
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Jun 13, 2017 22:34
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Agnosticnixie posted:The hardcore hillbots are going to call him a russian agent if he's not careful enough. look if hillary is the only one that isn't a russian agent, how can each of them know that they themselves are not one????
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Jun 13, 2017 22:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:that'd be great if that were actually what people meant when they said Medicare for all, instead of a new from scratch single payer program conyers' single-payer bill is literally called the Medicare for All Act.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:36
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Stexils posted:tony warhawk's pro skater
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Jun 13, 2017 22:38
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Pack it up folks, WJ and CC have proved, with their boring sarcastic posts, that Dems are actually good.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:39
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Didn't this shitbird try to pin Sandy Hook on Bernie?
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Jun 13, 2017 22:40
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literally my point, yes just opening up Medicare would be like striking reference to age in 42 USC 1395c
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Jun 13, 2017 22:40
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At least he doesn't think any percent should go to Russia controversy?
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Jun 13, 2017 22:40
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I'm a russian agent ama
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Jun 13, 2017 22:41
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Willa Rogers posted:so the "pragmatic" choice, then, would be medicare-as-it-exists-for-all, while the "ponies and unicorns" choice would be the california single-payer bill with no premiums and no deductibles. ok idk if you're trying to call me out or whatever, i've said pretty clearly i'm in favor of a true UHC bill that accomplishes the same goals as single payer even if it's not exactly the same or 100% as generous as a medicare-for-all (as proposed by bernie, not literally medicare opened to everyone)
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Jun 13, 2017 22:43
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i'm concerned citizen and the most pragmatic solution is obv. means-tested means-testing.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:44
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Concerned Citizen posted:ok I'm calling you out for bullshit talking points like "we don't need single-payer; we just need all the same things that single-payer and medicare do, only not called 'single-payer.' "
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Jun 13, 2017 22:45
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Willa Rogers posted:I'm calling you out for bullshit talking points like "we don't need single-payer; we just need all the same things that single-payer and medicare do, only not called 'single-payer.' " yes there's multiple paths to UHC, that's my entire point. there are many countries that, in fact, operate with multi-payer models that are worth looking at as more politically-palatable alternatives.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:48
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Concerned Citizen posted:yes there's multiple paths to UHC, that's my entire point. there are many countries that, in fact, operate with multi-payer models that are worth looking at as more politically-palatable alternatives. i didnt sign up for a sandbox UHC game, I wanted a linear one with a customizable paying model is that so hard
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Jun 13, 2017 22:50
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i too am concerned citizen
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Jun 13, 2017 22:51
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Concerned Citizen posted:more politically-palatable alternatives. Dems aren't even at any positions of power anywhere and you're already pre-compromising lmao
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Jun 13, 2017 22:51
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paranoid randroid posted:i too am concerned citizen
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Jun 13, 2017 22:51
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Willa Rogers posted:I'm calling you out for bullshit talking points like "we don't need single-payer; we just need all the same things that single-payer and medicare do, only not called 'single-payer.' " the fishmechs of the world are never going to push for single-payer as long as theres a slightly wonkier policy that costs slightly less (in terms of public spending, the only spending they are afraid of) and signals that they arent a dangerous radical but rather a ~reasonable compromiser~
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Jun 13, 2017 22:52
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paranoid randroid posted:i too am concerned citizen i am concerned with my citizenry, will the mean ICE agent take me away
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Jun 13, 2017 22:52
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Concerned Citizen posted:yes there's multiple paths to UHC, that's my entire point. there are many countries that, in fact, operate with multi-payer models that are worth looking at as more politically-palatable alternatives. oh thank god, I was worried pissflaps was going to have to be our emergency fishmech backup
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Jun 13, 2017 22:52
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Willa Rogers posted:I'm calling you out for bullshit talking points like "we don't need single-payer; we just need all the same things that single-payer and medicare do, only not called 'single-payer.' " u will have more success arguin with a stop sign than with a concern troll just sayin
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Jun 13, 2017 22:54
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the bitcoin of weed posted:Dems aren't even at any positions of power anywhere and you're already pre-compromising lmao i'm not the democratic party, obviously if i were sitting here advocating for UHC in a public advocacy context things would look different.
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Jun 13, 2017 22:55
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Vox Nihili posted:the fishmechs of the world are never going to push for single-payer as long as theres a slightly wonkier policy that costs slightly less (in terms of public spending, the only spending they are afraid of) and signals that they arent a dangerous radical but rather a ~reasonable compromiser~ weird, i guess i said i was for single payer if we had the votes, but somehow suggesting another UHC program might be easier to pass immediately marks me as fishmech
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Jun 13, 2017 22:59
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Concerned Citizen posted:i'm not the democratic party, obviously if i were sitting here advocating for UHC in a public advocacy context things would look different. *Camera cuts to CC, sitting alone in a dark room filled with Hillary 2016 yard signs.
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Jun 13, 2017 23:01
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Ace of Baes posted:*Camera cuts to CC, sitting alone in a dark room filled with Hillary 2016 yard signs. i've only got this one quist yard sign here
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Jun 13, 2017 23:04
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I still maintain that this thread primarily exists to troll Concerned Citizen, not the other way around. (Also I just don't want anyone to have to worry about medical bills any more and I don't really give a gently caress how we get there. Single payer is great, though and probably more politically realistic in the medium term than it's ever been, if we survive that long)
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Jun 13, 2017 23:06
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docbeard posted:I still maintain that this thread primarily exists to troll Concerned Citizen, not the other way around. but i'm untrollable!!!
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Jun 13, 2017 23:09
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