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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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Well this is a depressing start to the day 
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Jun 14, 2017 07:11
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| # ? May 16, 2024 01:10 |
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loving hell that is nightmare stuff.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:14
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farraday posted:https://www.ifsecglobal.com/how-many-fire-exits-are-required-in-a-building/ The idea is supposed to be you stay in place. All the flats are meant to be 1-hour rated and isolated from each other which is more than enough time for the fire brigade to turn up and sort poo poo out. I know it sounds grim but there's solid thinking behind it - a lot of people won't actually try to escape a fire, and of course at any one time there are going to be people unable to escape under their own steam, so they treat the entire thing as if it's inhabited by people unable to do so as a worst-case scenario and work from there. If they have put a flammable - or even a non-1-hour-rated - material anywhere in the building, *especially* around the outside of it, and broken the isolation between flats (say by installing a new central heating system without using fireproof insulation) this completely destroys that 1-hour rating and would almost certainly lead to, well, something that looks exactly like those pictures.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:21
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ThomasPaine posted:I got Bolshevik. Sorry my dudes. Ey up bolshiebros.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:23
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Pistol_Pete posted:They're probably frantically dissolving the company and setting up a new one, with no legal liability, that they can move all their assets to. #BritishValues
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Jun 14, 2017 07:31
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Everyone involved should be tied to a steak and burned to death. Sorry for the bloody mindedness, just that looking at all this makes me so drat furious and sad. The fact that these murderers will most likely get away with it makes it even worse. The people who do these things are lower than anything else, terrorists often kill themselves along with their victims, these filth murder for nothing more than a few extra pounds in their pockets.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:33
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The idea is supposed to be you stay in place. All the flats are meant to be 1-hour rated and isolated from each other which is more than enough time for the fire brigade to turn up and sort poo poo out. I know it sounds grim but there's solid thinking behind it - a lot of people won't actually try to escape a fire, and of course at any one time there are going to be people unable to escape under their own steam, so they treat the entire thing as if it's inhabited by people unable to do so as a worst-case scenario and work from there. You are right that in many cases evacuation isn't necessary, on the other hand if it does become necessary having a single point of failure like one stairwell can turn your building into a death trap.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:33
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I can't believe that there was not a building wide alarm system. It's insane that there isn't a requirement for it. Hell sprinklers too. I have lived in some tall buildings and they all had them.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:40
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Holy poo poo that is really grim. I really hope more people were able to either survive or escape than it looks like. Also, hang the property ghouls who let this happen.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:43
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farraday posted:You are right that in many cases evacuation isn't necessary, on the other hand if it does become necessary having a single point of failure like one stairwell can turn your building into a death trap. But that's the point, it shouldn't ever become necessary. The one-hour rating is supposed to hold even if the entire core and all adjacent dwellings are on fire, and that's a situation where you definitely don't want to be outside.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:43
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Doesn't maintenance of the building and facilities fall to a property manager that can blame a lazy caretaker rather than the building the owner?
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Jun 14, 2017 07:45
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TACD posted:https://twitter.com/themarkashley/status/874849561977729025 Zephro fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 07:46
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goddamnedtwisto posted:But that's the point, it shouldn't ever become necessary. The one-hour rating is supposed to hold even if the entire core and all adjacent dwellings are on fire, and that's a situation where you definitely don't want to be outside. I too look forward to the day when our advanced technology obviates the need for basic safety precautions. Hope my grandchildren see it.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:50
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You know its bad when even the head of the Fire Service is almost in tears talking about it. He confirmed fatalities.
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Jun 14, 2017 07:59
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What a horrible story to wake up to. I also just realised the tower block is in the constituency of the new Labour MP for Kensington. I really hope she dedicates her parliamentary career to finding out who was responsible for this and nailing them to the loving wall.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:01
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Acaila posted:Holy poo poo that is really grim. I really hope more people were able to either survive or escape than it looks like. Also, hang the property ghouls who let this happen. There are times when you read about certain things in history, e.g. the punishment for the Munster rebel leaders, and you think 'yes, that is a thing to be reintroduced'.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:02
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farraday posted:I too look forward to the day when our advanced technology obviates the need for basic safety precautions. Hope my grandchildren see it. It's not advanced technology, it's literally Victorian technology and is incredibly easy to do. Concrete or brick walls faced in gypsum, fibreglass (asbestos not so cool nowadays) plaster used to fill voids where the walls are punctured for services, hollow-core doors internally and steel-faced (or treated wood) external doors. It's how every housing block from the 1950s onwards in the UK and most of Europe was built, and they're statistically considerably safer than smaller dwellings that aren't required to have that sort of construction. Like I say, fire exits are a complete red herring here - look at that fire, you could have the entire building made of fire exits and people would still have been trapped. Don't forget the one-hour rating also means it keeps fire in as well as out - a fire in one flat shouldn't be able to spread to any others in less than an hour. Looking at before and after pictures I have a deep suspicion they've done what quite a lot of private redevelopments of ex-council stock have done and just clad the old exterior, and I'm willing to bet they've managed to argue that because the old exterior is concrete they don't need to make the cladding one-hour rated. goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 08:03
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It's not advanced technology, it's literally Victorian technology and is incredibly easy to do. Concrete or brick walls faced in gypsum, fibreglass (asbestos not so cool nowadays) plaster used to fill voids where the walls are punctured for services, hollow-core doors internally and steel-faced (or treated wood) external doors. It's how every housing block from the 1950s onwards in the UK and most of Europe was built, and they're statistically considerably safer than smaller dwellings that aren't required to have that sort of construction. Considering witness reports there's no question that they clad the whole thing in incredibly flammable poo poo let alone anything even slightly fire resistant.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:13
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Great analysis here: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-labour-conservative-brexit-jewish/530046/.quote:May is no doubt competent, but she campaigned so disastrously that her astronomical lead evaporated in less than two weeks. Like Hillary Clinton in America last November, she offered the same microwaved establishment gruel that nearly everyone on both ends of the spectrum has been gagging on for years. Corbyn, by contrast, was, like Donald Trump, the underdog populist from beyond the Westminster bubble, known for jousting with the political class in both parties. Why are journalists (even those for supposedly serious papers) so inept at understanding this stuff? Somehow the man endorsed by the only remotely left-wing candidate in the US election is actually the same as the fascist who actually won that election.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:13
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It's not advanced technology, it's literally Victorian technology and is incredibly easy to do. Concrete or brick walls faced in gypsum, fibreglass (asbestos not so cool nowadays) plaster used to fill voids where the walls are punctured for services, hollow-core doors internally and steel-faced (or treated wood) external doors. It's how every housing block from the 1950s onwards in the UK and most of Europe was built, and they're statistically considerably safer than smaller dwellings that aren't required to have that sort of construction. Feel free to point out anything that says having one fire exit is okay. I'll wait here as per your instructions.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:13
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gently caress.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:14
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Dange posted:Great analysis here: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-labour-conservative-brexit-jewish/530046/. Punditry and comment journalism is workfare for the thick-skulled failsons (and fail-daughters) of the ruling class.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:15
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Jesus Christ. My crappy Dublin apartment block is only 45 apartments, 4 stories, but it has multiple fire exits, fire doors, central alarms tested every 2 months. How the gently caress was this allowed to happen. Think I might invest in some climbing rope to store on the balcony. Ugh
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Jun 14, 2017 08:16
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Dange posted:Great analysis here: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-labour-conservative-brexit-jewish/530046/. I like how it argues that May failed because of ineptitude and sticking to establishment gruel, but then counters this by arguing that Labour can win if they appoint a wishy washy centralist also! Kinda misses the point entirely.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:17
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Dange posted:Why are journalists (even those for supposedly serious papers) so inept at understanding this stuff? Somehow the man endorsed by the only remotely left-wing candidate in the US election is actually the same as the fascist who actually won that election. These are the people that think comparisons between politicians and GoT characters are insightful.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:18
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poor people 
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Jun 14, 2017 08:18
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Bloody hell. A disaster like this is a failiure on multiple levels, where a chain event of greedy, stupid and/or dangerously negligent decisions have been made. This is a central problem of lack of compliance on the part of developers and owners, and a lack of regulation and oversight by municipal authorities. This is exactly what a de-regulated private market looks like, and this is a perfect metaphor for deregulating or just having lax oversight. That being said, it's also important in the face of events like these to understand the human element of this as well: Somewhere along the line, some actual, intelligent human made the decision to save or make money by doing an unsafe shortcut that they knew or at least suspected would put actual human lives at stake. This to such a degree that they were probably aware of the possibility of this happening and chose to do it anyway. Ask any of these people if they'd like to live there themselves or let their families live there, and you can imagine the answer. Now, it may have been a direct cause, or a death of a thousand cuts of small decisions cumulatively resulting in a massive security risk to these humans. Regardless, there is absolutely actual fault on the part of actual humans in charge of this mess. The best way to do something to avoid this happening again is to hold those people responsible in a big and public way, then make damned sure that building inspectors and regulators do their jobs without an inch of regard to the costs of fire-proofing buildings. On a personal note, gently caress how I loathe developers and landlords, the whole rotten lot. Nothing but complaints whenever there's a cost or a compliance need, but when stuff falls down all they have for you are excuses.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:19
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Jesus Christ. My crappy Dublin apartment block is only 45 apartments, 4 stories, but it has multiple fire exits, fire doors, central alarms tested every 2 months. How the gently caress was this allowed to happen. The free market will self-regulate crappy death trap buildings. Because every renter can inspect the whole building (lol) and make an informed choice (lol) about whether the building is a deathtrap (lol) and whether they want to pay probably the same rent to live in either a death trap or in a somewhat safe building (laffo). Duh. Dange posted:Great analysis here: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-labour-conservative-brexit-jewish/530046/. Trump is not a centrist. Corbyn is not a centrist. Corbyn and Trump are the same. QED bitches  .
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Jun 14, 2017 08:23
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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On Sky News there now, a guy and his family from the 7th floor escaped from the building. There IS a fire alarm system apparently. But he said he never heard it being tested, as is away at work all day when its meant to be tested.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:23
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Its a bit worrying considering the number of office to resi conversion jobs there have been recently due to relaxation of planning laws, some of them providing horrific living standards.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:24
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farraday posted:Feel free to point out anything that says having one fire exit is okay. I'll wait here as per your instructions. The entire loving thing, you idiot. YOU COULD HAVE A THOUSAND FIRE EXITS AND PEOPLE WILL STILL DIE BECAUSE THE ENTIRE loving BUILDING IS ON FIRE. The point is to stop the building getting to that point.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:25
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Anyone got a synonym for "total loving neglect and indifference" that would rhyme with "jet fuel"?
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Jun 14, 2017 08:26
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farraday posted:Feel free to point out anything that says having one fire exit is okay. I'll wait here as per your instructions.  Feel free to point out the place in that building you can put a fire exit that wouldn't double up as a barbecue you smug oval office.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:29
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Call me crazy but imo buildings should have totally overengineered fire proofing, including fire resistant materials throughout, as well as multiple points of exit - as many as practicable, and certainly at least one on every level.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:29
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communism bitch posted:Call me crazy but imo buildings should have totally overengineered fire proofing, including fire resistant materials throughout, as well as multiple points of exit - as many as practicable, and certainly at least one on every level. As pointed out earlier, they kind of do.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:32
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Local councillor being very evasive when interviewed by sky. On being asked about the refurb he immediately says that that was all checked and signed off.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:32
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communism bitch posted:Call me crazy but imo buildings should have totally overengineered fire proofing, including fire resistant materials throughout, as well as multiple points of exit - as many as practicable, and certainly at least one on every level.  and when buying suspiciously cheap cladding from china maybe find out why its so cheap by checking they have filled it with extremely flammable material to save money
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Jun 14, 2017 08:32
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Think I might invest in some climbing rope to store on the balcony. Ugh Also useful for dispensing justice when the landlord visits.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:33
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WMain00 posted:I like how it argues that May failed because of ineptitude and sticking to establishment gruel, but then counters this by arguing that Labour can win if they appoint a wishy washy centralist also! It explicitly argues that if Labour had run someone from the 'socialist wing' without Corbyn's creepy extremism on foreign policy stuff they would have done even better, which is obviously unprovable but almost certainly true even just as a theoretical exercise. Unless anybody thinks Corbyn was vital in delivering the all important pro-Milosevic vote.
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Jun 14, 2017 08:34
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| # ? May 16, 2024 01:10 |
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Jose posted:
Oh, I thought you wanted the inflammable material. Woops
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Jun 14, 2017 08:35
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