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They say “smoke extraction”, but I think “bellows”.
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Jun 14, 2017 06:14
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shame on an IGA posted:OSHA topic: Slip Resistant footwear. Oh yeah, that's a good tread pattern for a slick shop. I used to work in a screw machine shop (oil coolant, and lots of it) in degrease/deburr/secondary-ops. Degrease & deburr was always slick with oil, or water, or water on top of oil, on painted concrete. I wore Redwing 6662's with a similar pattern and never had a traction problem. Walking to the car during a Minnesota winter could be a bit hair raising though. The "tread" on the older version was well 
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Jun 14, 2017 06:21
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Guess the smoke evacuation system they just installed either didn't work or got overwhelmed. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...4b0bdd87e2f6964 quote:Jody Martin said he got to the scene as the first fire engine was arriving at Grenfell Tower. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...4b0bdd87e2f6964 quote:One resident, who did not want to give his name but said he lived “high up” in the tower, said no alarms went off as the fire started. Apparently the building has quite a history with safety hazards. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/
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Jun 14, 2017 06:24
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C.M. Kruger posted:Guess the smoke evacuation system they just installed either didn't work or got overwhelmed. drat Trump defunded their OSHA as well. Maybe he is evil.
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Jun 14, 2017 06:44
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dude on skytv who lived on the fourth floor says the only reason he is alive is because the guy whose kitchen exploded went around knocking on doors. he also said he had a hard time escaping through the smoke from a low floor and that the only (!) stairway was lined with gas pipes (!!!) so this is probably going to be a bad one
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Jun 14, 2017 06:51
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Canuck-Errant posted:Well, you don't have to guess at it being aluminum cladding, they just installed ACM cladding a few months ago. If that's the cause, and Australians already know many many of their tall buildings are covered in the flammable bullshit cladding, I wonder how many will pack up and move
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Jun 14, 2017 06:53
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bumming your scene posted:If that's the cause, and Australians already know many many of their tall buildings are covered in the flammable bullshit cladding, I wonder how many will pack up and move The relevant building authorities have been telling the developers "Uhhhm, how about you remove that cladding and replace it with something that's not going to kill everyone?" and they replied with "Would it be okay if we just put in a few extra sprinklers instead? And told people not to clutter up the balconies with random crap that might catch on fire?" and the regulation board went "Nahhhhh, we're pretty keen on the 'remove the flammable cladding' idea" so the developers went "Uh I guess we'll talk to our lawyers to see who's responsible for paying for all that, or maybe we'll just keep fighting in a higher court IDK LOL" http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/combustible-cladding-to-be-stripped-off-lacrosse-docklands-tower-20170116-gtslcj.html
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Jun 14, 2017 07:23
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boner confessor posted:the only (!) stairway was lined with gas pipes (!!!) every time im in the uk i wonder how their entire architectural/structural/civil engineering culture and bureaucracy works, because everything feels like it was designed on the spot by the bottom tier contractor within no plan, codes or auditing for safety or crowd flow modeling or hvac efficiency. never get that feeling anywhere else like a nation of cramped damp groverhouses
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Jun 14, 2017 07:44
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Residents have been angry for a long time. Tower was a death trap waiting to happen. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/amp/
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Jun 14, 2017 09:28
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Jun 14, 2017 10:11
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Jun 14, 2017 11:06
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Turns out not only is there a blog predicting this fire from last year, the cladding company has completely sanitised theri website of any mention of doing the work. I wonder if they maybe made some material substitutions. 
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Jun 14, 2017 11:11
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TTerrible posted:Turns out not only is there a blog predicting this fire from last year, the cladding company has completely sanitised theri website of any mention of doing the work. I wonder if they maybe made some material substitutions. 
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Jun 14, 2017 11:35
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Breakfast All Day posted:every time im in the uk i wonder how their entire architectural/structural/civil engineering culture and bureaucracy works, because everything feels like it was designed on the spot by the bottom tier contractor within no plan, codes or auditing for safety or crowd flow modeling or hvac efficiency. never get that feeling anywhere else From what I've seen that pretty much sums it up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5VorymiL4
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Jun 14, 2017 11:54
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TTerrible posted:Turns out not only is there a blog predicting this fire from last year, the cladding company has completely sanitised theri website of any mention of doing the work. I wonder if they maybe made some material substitutions. Do you have a link to their website? Archive.org to the rescue.
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Jun 14, 2017 12:12
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Wikipedia posted:On December 10, 1943, Speer visited the underground Mittelwerk V-2 rocket factory that used concentration camp labor. Speer later said he had been shocked by the conditions there (5.7 percent of the work force died that month). Speer creatively reinterpreted his role after the Allies came to town. I don’t believe for a moment that he felt remorse in 1943. But that death rate doesn’t lie.  The V‐2 may be the only weapon to kill more people in production than in deployment, despite being deployed in a major conflict.
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Jun 14, 2017 12:16
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Jeoh posted:Do you have a link to their website? Archive.org to the rescue. It popped up on twitter with an archive.is link, I'll have a dig.
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Jun 14, 2017 12:24
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Platystemon posted:They say “smoke extraction”, but I think “bellows”. How does it extract smoke without bringing in fresh air containing a new supply of oxygen?
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Jun 14, 2017 12:56
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boner confessor posted:dude on skytv who lived on the fourth floor says the only reason he is alive is because the guy whose kitchen exploded went around knocking on doors. he also said he had a hard time escaping through the smoke from a low floor and that the only (!) stairway was lined with gas pipes (!!!) so this is probably going to be a bad one Apparently (at least per the Independent), Muslim residents up early for Ramadan may have played a significant role in alerting residents: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-a7789111.html
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Jun 14, 2017 13:20
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neonbregna posted:How does it extract smoke without bringing in fresh air containing a new supply of oxygen? it extracts it to a different part of the same building?
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Jun 14, 2017 13:26
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neonbregna posted:How does it extract smoke without bringing in fresh air containing a new supply of oxygen? I think the idea is to overpressure the fire escape routes to keep them clear of smoke so people can evacuate. Or for other spaces clearing smoke and fumes in the short term saves lives but can condemn the structure.
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Jun 14, 2017 13:49
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Three-Phase posted:Geez I haven't browsed through Liveleak in awhile. Could they have...kicked the scaffolding away? Or kicked his body away? I mean he was probably already dead right but eesh. edit : I mean his hands were probably death gripping the metal right? so kicking away isn't an option? Brazilianpeanutwar fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 14:08
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- involves a scaffold. In India this time. You have been warned.
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neonbregna posted:How does it extract smoke without bringing in fresh air containing a new supply of oxygen? Typical sequence of operation where I am is fans pressurize the stairwells with fresh air for evacuation, supply dampers shut to prevent feeding air to the fire, return fans ramp and suck air out of the building through an exhaust damper on the roof. The HAVC won't supply air to the fire but it does make the building negative and will suck air in where it can around the envelope and the stairwell doors harder to open (which is part of why there are supposed to be floor marshals who assist evacuation). I don't think the idea is to keep the fans on the whole time the fire is fought, but just long enough to safely evacuate. There are controls in the fire command room for fire fighters to turn all the fans on or off.
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Jun 14, 2017 14:19
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:Could they have...kicked the scaffolding away? Or kicked his body away? I mean he was probably already dead right but eesh. SOP is hit them with something long and non conductive I think, but yeah that's a problem. My dad taught me that you should always touch with the back of your hand to prevent clamping on with a spasm, even if you're sure it's not live, but that's probably bollocks.
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Jun 14, 2017 14:27
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 I hope the patient wasn't still in the wheelchair 
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Jun 14, 2017 15:45
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:
God drat, that's one expensive mistake. Pretty sure they need to quench the system to get that out. If they do the graceful reboot (which doesn't require a recharge of helium) it can take up to two weeks to turn off the magnetic field in those things. If they had to do a emergency quench (which is almost never), they vent all the He at once and that can cost millions of dollars to recover the system after one of those. Plus there's the whole suffocation risk as the air is displaced by all that He.
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Jun 14, 2017 15:53
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That reminds me of these two particularly OSHA videos: Snapback? https://youtu.be/6BBx8BwLhqg Displacement? https://youtu.be/9SOUJP5dFEg
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Jun 14, 2017 15:56
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darkwasthenight posted:SOP is hit them with something long and non conductive I think, but yeah that's a problem. My dad taught me that you should always touch with the back of your hand to prevent clamping on with a spasm, even if you're sure it's not live, but that's probably bollocks. The back of the hand thing has some truth to it, but its more of a "if you have to be the idiot that gets shocked" advice. There are much safer ways.
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Jun 14, 2017 15:58
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Greatest Living Man posted:That reminds me of these two particularly OSHA videos: As long as the straps and hooks were rated double what the gauge would read, I wouldn't be too concerned with snapback until they'd maxed out the gauge. Venting liquid helium to the atmosphere with a purpose-built ducting, I wouldn't think much of it could hug the ground long enough to asphyxiate anybody.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:34
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Lime Tonics posted:https://twitter.com/itanio/status/8...c94634841b00a30 So they re-did the outer cladding in 2016. Wanna bet it was clad in the same Chinese cheapest-and-deadliest-most-inflammable stuff that has caused a lot of other high-rises to go up in flames previously? e: Oh there was another page sorry. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 16:40
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Yeah, that's exactly what I said when I saw it on the news this morning. I blame developers buying stuff they know is dangerous because they also know they'll have cashed their cheque and disappeared into the night long before anyone starts looking to have a word with them about all the burned up corpses.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:59
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Isn't the problem with that cladding not the aluminium, but the delicious hydrocarbon fuel sandwiched between the aluminium sheets? The non-fire-hazard stuff you're supposed to use on buildings has a mineral fibre core instead of plastic but that costs more so of course people don't use it. Edit: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4243787.htm Some of it's builders being cheap, some of it is manufacturers/importers being cheap and lying about the product (no doubt some is all of the above) GotLag fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 17:15
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GotLag posted:Isn't the problem with that cladding not the aluminium, but the delicious hydrocarbon fuel sandwiched between the aluminium sheets? The non-fire-hazard stuff you're supposed to use on buildings has a mineral fibre core instead of plastic but that costs more so of course people don't use it. Aluminum itself will burn given enough encouragement, and it's entirely possible that a fully-involved structure fire qualifies.   That's the aluminum superstructure of the USS Belknap before and after it bumped into a carrier, punctured a fuel bunker, and had burning aviation fuel pour all over her. You can try this yourself: Throw an empty beer can in a campfire. The can will soften, and then sag, breaking the oxide layer on the aluminum, and then once that oxide layer is broken and raw aluminum is exposed to the air the can just goes *poof*. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 17:32
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Metal fires are awful. Fire fighters get specific training to deal with cars that have magnesium engine blocks.
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Jun 14, 2017 19:40
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Even though I work in an office, we get a good lesson about metal fires during our annual Right to Know training, which basically boils down to evacuate and make sure the first responders know what they're dealing with. The operators who actually work with the stuff, and anyone around them, get more intense training, but I still remember my high school science teacher lighting a small strip of magnesium on fire, and yeah holy poo poo, if that stuff looks like it might goes up, I'm moving as fast as possible in the other direction.
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Jun 14, 2017 19:54
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:Could they have...kicked the scaffolding away? Or kicked his body away? I mean he was probably already dead right but eesh. At about 50 seconds in one guy tries kicking the scaffold, achieves little, and just gives up. I wonder if kicking the victim loose would have worked.
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Jun 14, 2017 19:54
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It looked to me like he kicked the dude and got shocked himself -- he's immediately pushed back and doesn't try it again. One of the classic industrial electrical safety demos is to drop a branch across a pair of high-voltage lines and watch the branch catch fire, as an example of why you don't use a branch try to knock people off the line they've touched. I'm sure Three-Phase or one o the other electrician types in here can specify exactly, but I think that you're supposed to use a fiberglass pole or something, and if you don't have that welp.
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Jun 14, 2017 20:01
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Yeah if somebody is getting electrocuted in that manner, touching them is only going to get you hosed as well as him, you do not do anything unless you have the tools needed, which I believe Sagebrush is correct wrt fiberglass pole.
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Jun 14, 2017 20:04
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Sagebrush posted:It looked to me like he kicked the dude and got shocked himself -- he's immediately pushed back and doesn't try it again. One thing we were taught was that you're supposed to really swing a 2x4 and hit the guy with enough force that momentum carries everything clear of the power source, instead of trying to prod or push them. Still seems a bit risky seeing as how electricity is right quick.
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Jun 14, 2017 20:05
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it's okay as long as you swing the 2x4 at least 186,000 miles per second
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Jun 14, 2017 20:11
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