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Last Celebration posted:Yeah, the whole Conquest/Birthright design mentality sounds great in theory but in practice both are overturned, so one campaign is Awakening 2.0 for newcomers and the other one is All the Really Clever But Sadistic Parts of Thracia 776 And Hector Hard Mode. Which is kinda exhausting since, you know, even FE5 let you steal good poo poo and gave you Ced as an out in the endgame. Conquest is only like 20% as clever as Thracia
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Jun 13, 2017 19:58
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cheetah7071 posted:Conquest is only like 20% as clever as Thracia Should I just have said gimmicky then? Idk, shits trying to be a puzzle or whatever and there's always at least one thing stopping you from the obvious solution.
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Jun 13, 2017 20:18
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I just found it too hard to be fun, awakening and birthright amount of challenge with the more straightforward "beat up their army with your army" is just fine with me.
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Jun 13, 2017 20:49
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 The final battle is upon us, as the castle is randomly surrounded by dimensional goo. No, they didn't explain it or anything. It just appeared. And this is the same as Birthright in splitting up the final battle. If you lose here, you go all the way back to fighting goo Garon.   If I had only been by your side, I might have realized what was happening sooner. Perhaps I could have found a way to save you.BUY THE OTHER ROUTES I know every choice we make has consequences… I chose to follow Corrine, but did I sacrifice you to do so? DID I SUBTLY TELL YOU TO BUY THE OTHER ROUTES, YET   I didn’t plan on ever doing this again… But I will now use my forbidden song to weaken the curse and help free you. Once I use this power…  Takumi, Ryoma… I wonder if you’ll be upset at me for joining you so soon. Or maybe you’ll be happy to see me too*Azura starts singing* Does anyone else think the story was designed for Birthright to be played first? Because this sub-plot about Azura harming herself when singing never comes up when it was major conflict in the other route.   Stage 1 of this stage are a trio of Oni Chieftains and this Maid with Freeze.  Behind her is stage 2 of the map, with two Wary Fighter Generals, two high-speed ninjas, a Paladin with Beast Killer, and two Malig Knights with Trample and Savage Blow.   On the left side before stage 2 are a couple Heroes with Darting Blow. On the right side, two Onmyoji with Vantage.   There are also multiple Dragon Veins that all do the same thing, which is creating white rock walls to block the main gimmick of this fight.   The main thing to keep in mind for this final stage is that it is specifically designed to be won quickly. On Hard, Takumi charges up a map-wide AoE attack before the enemy phase starts every three turns. The only way to avoid it is hiding behind the area covered by the white rocks.   As my defenses get set, Takumi shoots off a giant wave that heavily damages units that were probably finishing off the side enemies.   Ophelia and Xander are safe from basically a demonstration of the gimmick, while stage 2 of the map goes in and attacks my forces.   Camilla is one of the few units that have the combination of good defense, resistance, and being a mounted unit to withstand shurikens, spells, and lances. Percy does a good job as well, taking on General swings after a ninja Poison Strike.   The ninjas are by far the biggest problem to kill on this turn, which required heavy reliance on positioning my Heartseeker units in their faces.   Wow. Couldn't even get a decent level on the last moment, huh.   Clearing the last active enemy leads to stage 3 which is Takumi and this Great Master with a Hex rod. Because of course there's a goddamn Hex Rod in the final moments of this route.   Oh by the way, there's four pair-up units of a Paladin and Bow Knight. Nothing special, except they are high stat units that you can't one-shot via dual attacks.   Self-Destruct:-At the start of the user’s Turn, if user’s HP is under half, inflicts damage to all enemies and walls within a 2 tile radius; afterwards, the user disappears Those horsies are actually a distraction to slow you down as these infinite enemies spawn from the top.  You actually need to position yourself to be able to reach Takumi by turn four, or else you'll just get overwhelmed really hard in a no-win situation.  Skadi: S rank, 15 mt, 95 hit, -10 avoidcrit, 1-4 range, crit evade +20 Bold Stance-When user is the lead unit, even when paired up, the support unit can trigger Dual Strikes, but enemy Dual Strikes are not passively negated The Skadi is your typical boss weapon that hits really hard and accurately. Bold Stance is interesting in not preventing dual attacks, but makes it so the unit benefits from pair-up stats and the offense of dual attacks. Basically, don't attack Takumi without being paired-up. Otherwise he's got the usual array of Dragonskin, Dragonic Hex, and Vengeance to be kinda RNG in taking him down.   Hang in there just a bit longer, Takumi. I’ll set your spirit free… I promise to make good on your dying wish, my brother!  You should really try and get Corrine to 35 speed so she can double Takumi. With a speed tonic, Laslow, Azura's boosts, etc. you should be able to turn even a mediocre Corrine up to that limit.   And Xander finishes off the enemy in anti-climatic fashion, just like this whole chapter.   I'm actually surprised I didn't get to use any of my special stuff like Freeze or Entrap. Well, the game portion of Conquest is done. The ending will be split up into two parts.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:04
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Y'know, I can't even remember seeing Nyx on Birthright now.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:27
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Tae posted:Does anyone else think the story was designed for Birthright to be played first? Because this sub-plot about Azura harming herself when singing never comes up when it was major conflict in the other route. Definitely. There are several mysteries in Birthright that are explained in Conquest (off the top of my head, we find out what the crystal ball Azura gave Leo is about), and the mysteries brought up in Conquest answered in Revelation, not Birthright. Also, there was no reason for it harming her to come up in the route because she only sings with her amulet three times: before the route split, at the opera, and now. Whereas she sings in like half of the chapters in Birthright, so she couldn't hide it there.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:31
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RareAcumen posted:Y'know, I can't even remember seeing Nyx on Birthright now.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:42
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To be fair, Nyx isn't a member of the Nohrian army which, combined with Birthright apparently mostly being an infiltration of Nohr by effectively a strike team rather than an invading army, means there's no real reason for her to ever appear.Last Celebration posted:Should I just have said gimmicky then? Idk, shits trying to be a puzzle or whatever and there's always at least one thing stopping you from the obvious solution. Probably yes. Most (though not all) of Conquest is difficult due to gimmicks you often have no real way to see coming, rather than legitimate and fair difficulty. And as you get later in the route there's virtually no breather map either, which just makes it an unfun slog where you're locked into the same units basically every run.
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Jun 14, 2017 03:03
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Why is Azura singing anyway? Your army just massacred an evil mutant king and his entire army. You should be able to just beat up Takumi without it.
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Jun 14, 2017 04:11
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Why is Azura singing anyway? Your army just massacred an evil mutant king and his entire army. You should be able to just beat up Takumi without it. Because... apparently they needed to kill her off for some inexplicable reason? Really, it makes about as much sense as the rest of the route, including Takumi being the last boss at all (and you will never convince me otherwise, with how he shows up so often). Also: I'm with the bandwagon that says that if they wanted to make Takumi the last boss, they should've had the guts to go all the way with it and make it actually TAKUMI you're fighting rather than his reanimated corpse. Granted, I don't think he should've been the last boss at all, but that's an entirely different subject. And why is he even possessed in the first place? As far as we know, THIS Takumi never took that dive into the Bottomless Canyon, and it apparently only started after that happened to him in Birthright.
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Jun 14, 2017 04:50
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I can't figure out why Azura is so committed to saving Takumi in the first place. He hates her guts, considers her to be a foreigner and blames her for everything that has gone wrong. He won't even allow her to speak his name, presumably he's been mistreating her this way since they were small children. In Birthright she has to save his life to earn the right to talk to him, in Conquest this never happens so he just wants her head on a stick for the entire game.
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Jun 14, 2017 04:53
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PassingPie posted:I can't figure out why Azura is so committed to saving Takumi in the first place. He hates her guts, considers her to be a foreigner and blames her for everything that has gone wrong. He won't even allow her to speak his name, presumably he's been mistreating her this way since they were small children. In Birthright she has to save his life to earn the right to talk to him, in Conquest this never happens so he just wants her head on a stick for the entire game. Fire Emblem Fates: Revelations although to be fair the shadowy evil dudes who turned up and tried to kill you when you followed azura into wherever the hell she went are visually connected to takumi so you can assume it has something to do with that even without BUY THE OTHER ROUTE
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Jun 14, 2017 05:09
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CptWedgie posted:And why is he even possessed in the first place? As far as we know, THIS Takumi never took that dive into the Bottomless Canyon, and it apparently only started after that happened to him in Birthright. Just because it was never mentioned, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Takumi was only possessed after he fell into the canyon in Birthright, so you can assume that the same thing had happened to him to cause his possession in Conquest.
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Jun 14, 2017 05:15
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The shadowy semi-transparent people are never actually mentioned outside of maybe chapter 15 in Conquest, and even then they never bring up by anyone that Takumi has the same aura as them. The only time it's shown that they know what those things are is during child paralogues. Which, you know how "canon" they are factored into the story.
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Jun 14, 2017 05:16
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So are any of these guys going to mention that the castle was partly fused with infinity or what that might mean?
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Jun 14, 2017 11:26
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Glazius posted:So are any of these guys going to mention that the castle was partly fused with infinity or what that might mean? Of course not, what LP have you been reading? Because I've been reading Fire Emblem Fates, the game in which virtually everything vanishes completely after the end of the map, never to return- map gimmicks, characters, the characters' powers, plot elements, and even the map itself sometimes. Basically, if you expect the ending to acknowledge that last map in any way beyond "Azura dies pointlessly," you're giving the game too much credit. Hell, I just thought of a way to shuffle things around to prevent the Risen Takumi last boss that I'm reasonably sure nobody can complain too much about (beyond "this guy isn't worth appearing as a boss this late" which is already in effect in the actual game): Split Hans and Iago into separate maps, with Hans as the boss of Stage 26. After killing Iago during Stage 27, Goo Garon (Gooron for short) comes out to investigate just as you're about to go in, after which things pretty much proceed as the ACTUAL Stage 27 did (possibly with the addition of Azura's song and maybe the gratuitous near-death experience, since they seem dead-set on having those happen every time).
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Jun 14, 2017 13:42
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AradoBalanga posted:Nyx is exclusive to Conquest and Revelation. She doesn't even exist on Birthright's path. All of the other Conquest exclusive characters at least appear once on Birthright. Yeah, I meant like fighting her. Which is like, one thing the game got right. She wanted to be left alone at first, after all. So on the other route you don't see hide nor hair of her! 
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Jun 14, 2017 16:50
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CptWedgie posted:Of course not, what LP have you been reading? Because I've been reading Fire Emblem Fates, the game in which virtually everything vanishes completely after the end of the map, never to return- map gimmicks, characters, the characters' powers, plot elements, and even the map itself sometimes. How can you consistently be worse then the content we actually have.
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Jun 14, 2017 17:25
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I always wondered if it would be possible to salvage this game's plot if they'd just abandoned the idea of three versions and used some of the ideas into one coherent story.
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Jun 14, 2017 17:31
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Glazius posted:So are any of these guys going to mention that the castle was partly fused with infinity or what that might mean? First the castle was damaged during the fight with Slime Garon. The "fused with infinity" was the force behind the invisible soldiers directing its full attention on you, with it being more convenient to manifest through the cracks that already existed.
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Jun 14, 2017 17:38
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Geostomp posted:I always wondered if it would be possible to salvage this game's plot if they'd just abandoned the idea of three versions and used some of the ideas into one coherent story. Isn't that the problem in the first place? They've only got enough material here for a game or two- at most- but it's stretched into three. If they'd waffled less on 'Oh god did I make the right choice?' every other chapter this would be a bit better. And also make them really distinct from each other.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:54
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Can we all at least agree that they did the soundtrack right? Because Fates's soundtrack is extraordinary.
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Jun 14, 2017 20:37
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fates' ost is good but the self-important song names are kind of lol. it's an incredibly minor, unimportant thing but awakening's song names were mostly quotes from the game and it was like, cute, meanwhile fates' are 'Homesick (Light) and 'Justice RIP.' the default my castle theme for when you're wandering around getting oranges from kaze or whoever is called 'abundant solace'
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Jun 14, 2017 21:11
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I believe every song in Awakening that plays during cutscenes (so, excluding map themes or w/e) are named after a line from the first scene it plays in
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Jun 14, 2017 21:56
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cheetah7071 posted:I believe every song in Awakening that plays during cutscenes (so, excluding map themes or w/e) are named after a line from the first scene it plays in Pretty sure that was the translators' idea. The original names would have been more pompous.
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Jun 14, 2017 22:19
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The battle themes in awakening have cool names and are cool i also quite like how the many variants on 'Id' use thematic transformation on the same motif
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Jun 15, 2017 00:00
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  Well, that dimensional purple stuff is gone. I'll assume "Takumi" enacted some secret dimension arena shenanigans. Also twice now that the bubbles appear. Rest in peace now, my brother. …  Th…thank…you…my…sister… !! Takumi?! !!!...  So Takumi was dead, but then came alive again? Or maybe it was spirit talk. *sigh* I wonder… What was it that possessed the bodies of King Garon and Takumi? Can sorrow and anger grow so strong they create a monster all their own?  BUY REVELATIONS, DON'T YOU WANNA BUY IT??  Alas, such questions are not meant to be answered by mortals like us. "I ain't got 20 bucks on me right now, Corrine."  All I know is that the war is finally over. You did well, Corrine. Xander… Thank you. Many sacrifices were made along the way, but now this world will finally know peace. I think that alone gives great meaning to all we have done…and all we have lost.  Her pure heart led her dedicated to Getting Dat Chair That is the only justice one can hope for in this world. Now, in memory of all the lives that were lost to this senseless war… We must create a bright future for the whole word to share.I seriously don't think Xander understands what "Justice" means.  You’re right. And that’s just what we’ll do!  She was here just a moment ago… Has anyone seen her? She was just here! Where did she go?! Azura! Where are you?! That’s odd… Where could she have run off to?  Perhaps there’s something she wanted to see or do now that she’s returned. Hmm… Don’t worry, Corrine. We’ll find her. But first we need to locate all remaining soldiers and tell them the war is over. Oh! You’re right. We’ll probably find her along the way. Let’s do it! *Everyone but Corrine starts leaving*  I can’t help feeling…like I’ve seen Azura for the last time. Hmm… I’m probably just still wound up from the battle. That’s all it is… So yeah. Remember how Azura had a CG scene and everything as she's about to disappear? Welp, that's the last of Azura on Conquest basically. That's right, she's just...gone. It's kinda weird. Azura was far more involved in Conquest's plot, but far more important in Birthright.  Back to CASTLE KRAKENBURG  Oh, Gunter does have story relevance. Weird that he didn't say a peep to Hans....  Is to be succeeded by Prince Xander, Nohr’s crown prince and rightful heir. King Xander will rule over Nohr and guide us in this new era of peace. Please, my liege… Accept this crown as a symbol of your reign. Thank you, Gunter. As king, I vow to rule with dignity and kindness…and to always lead our beloved Nohr down the path of peace. Xander! You’re a king now! I’ve never met anyone more worthy of that title than you. Yes, the role fits you nicely. Here’s to a fresh start for the kingdom of Nohr!  Is this more of an honor thing, because through two games, Nohr has boasted some impressive resources that's only screwed by self-inflicted damage like Faceless.  I just know our Xander will bring hope and prosperity back to this land! *sniffle* I wish Azura could have seen Xander’s coronation ceremony… Me too, Elise… I can’t believe she ran off like that, right when we finally won the war! I can’t imagine why she left… But I hope wherever she is, that she’s happy. Hmph! If she was going to leave us, she could have at least said good-bye.  Like a wave upon the ocean… Oh! OH!! It looks like Xander’s about to make a speech, heehee! His first speech as king! Let’s listen very quietly, Elise. OK, heehee.  I'm starting to think that small crown is why Xander was so jealous of Ryoma. Compare that to Ryo's war helmet. Such compensation. The war is finally over, and we have formed a new alliance with Hoshido. Though once enemies, our kingdoms will now strive for peace together. Since the war began, and long before, both Nohr and Hoshido were in agony. Freedoms were oppressed, possessions were plundered, the land was ravaged.  This is what you call "Victors writing the history books" because 90% of the negative stuff of the war fell on Hoshido. I never wish to see that happen again… Not to anyone. I won’t allow it. As such, all tribes and other peoples of Nohr shall be granted autonomy. We will not seek to expand our borders by infringing upon Hoshidan land. Instead, we shall strive to build a foundation of trust.  This peace will last like two minutes after the game ends, considering how petty Hoshidan nobles are to constantly assassinate Azura. In the years to come, I look forward to watching that seed grow. We have a long road ahead of us. It will not be easy, but it is worth treading.  As dumb as Xander is at times, you literally can't do worse than Garon. The night sky is dark, but that is what allows the stars to shine so brilliantly. As king, I hope to be the light that guides Nohr out of this long night. I swear I will not rest until our beloved home awakens to a brighter tomorrow. For the great people of Nohr… Here’s to a future of peace and prosperity! I’m certain we’ll be able to do what Father never had the chance to. We’re going to build the kind of world that people can live happily in. Some day in the far-off future, people will sing songs about all this! That was amazing, Xander. You sounded just like a king! You’re so cool, Big Brother! Elise!! Keep your voice down! And stop waving your arms like a fool! Are you actively trying to bring shame on the entire royal family?!"Act like the adult you technically are!"  Haha, calm down, Leo. Why not let her be? In any case, your voice got rather loud as well. Everyone’s staring at you. Ah… Well… Gunter getting more plot relevance now despite having a whole chapter dedicated to him. We’re all going to get an earful about this later. EHEM. If I could have everyone’s attention… The coronation ceremony is now complete. May King Xander reign in glory over our great kingdom forever! King Xander… How wonderful…   What do you think, little princess? Did I sound like a worthy king? Absolutely! Your speech was inspiring, and you looked so cool and powerful up there! You should have heard the fuss Elise was making! Yeah, but mean ol’ Gunter scolded me about it afterward… Oh, darling, but his lecture only lasted a minute or two. He went easy on you. Oh right. Hinoka would be here, since literally everyone else is dead above her.  I would have cried my eyes out after a lecture like that… Hinoka! Sakura! I’m so happy to see you. Thanks for coming today. No thanks required, Corrine. Our kingdoms signed a permanent peace treaty, so we can visit whenever we want. Of course I’d be here for such a big event. I’ll come running whenever you need me. Haha, I know. Thank you…"We'll never mention that I broke the promise to keep Ryoma safe."  Y-yes… But isn’t that part of why you got scolded? Your “excessive” waving? Heh, so you heard that? Stupid Gunter… I thought you looked energetic and happy, just as a princess should be. But I hope you act just a bit more refined at MY coronation ceremony. Hee hee, if you insist! That's lovely. You'll make a truly stunning queen. It’s all been really challenging for Hinoka. She’s training to behave more like a queen, but it’s going terribly! SAKURA! Don’t go around telling people that! I just…can’t help it. I never thought it would fall to me to rule Hoshido.  I always took it for granted that Ryoma would eventually be king. And after him, I suppose I expected to pass on the honor to Takumi.  Killing them would be unexpected, yes. I’m so sorry, Hinoka. I miss them too. Corrine… No, it’s fine. It is what it is. To be honest, I still battle with feelings of hatred toward the Nohrian army.  Oh hey, actual reasonable reactions to an aftermath of a brutal one-sided victory. A bit different than Birthright, where nobody in Nohr liked being in Nohr for the most part. But in time, I know even those wounds will heal. I trust you and Xander to prevent such things from ever happening again. In my heart, I know Ryoma and Takumi don’t hold any grudges either."I saw them in the afterlife!" Hinoka… You should know, however, that there are many Hoshidans who still don’t trust you. I will do all I can to convince the masses, but change won’t come easy.  Yeah, how exactly do you convince your kingdom to respect someone who betrayed Hoshido, conquered it, killed the Queen and her two sons, and pillaged their homes? The answer is ~You are the Ocean's Gray Waves~  The lives that my kingdom has taken are a burden I shall bear for the rest of my life. The blood that was spilled, the tears that fell, the hearts that were broken… For all of that and more, I am truly sorry. Please, Prince…erm, I mean, King Xander. You can’t take the blame for all that. As queen, it will be my job to help clear up our misconceptions about Nohrians. It will take time, but it will happen. I will make sure of it. I’ll do my best to help out too! Hinoka… Sakura… Corrine… When tensions finally subside in Hoshido… Well, I want you to feel free to return to the castle anytime you like.  I want you to feel at home there so we can all spend time together as siblings. Thank you, Hinoka. I promise to come visit often! Good. Well…it’s getting late. We should be heading back. On behalf of Hoshido, allow me to thank you for inviting us here today. Sakura, will you please fetch my pegasus? Sure! I look forward to seeing you all at the coronation ceremony in Hoshido! I can’t wait! See you soon!*Hinoka and Sakura leave*  Yes, but you’ll see them again soon. They are your siblings, after all. Yes. I’m truly blessed to have so many wonderful siblings in my life. And now I can spend as much time as I want with all of them! Shall we head to the banquet now? Banquet? What banquet? Oh, right! This is your first time at an important Nohrian event. In Nohr, whenever something big happens at the castle, we hold a royal banquet.  By the way, did Nohr ever fix its inner Faceless problem? The answer is no, they never bring it up.  Xander decided he wanted to provide food for the whole town, not just the royals. Now everyone can celebrate the occasion and enjoy the banquet together. Wow! That sounds amazing! Doesn’t it! I’m gonna serve up yummy food to all kinds of different people! But you can’t carry it all by yourself, right? I’ll go with you. I, for one, shall busy myself by entertaining the lords and ladies. We must not neglect making a good impression on them as well.  Time to get cooking and show everyone the true meaning of Nohrian cuisine! I’ll make sure to set aside a few plates of your favourite foods, milord. Hmm, I wonder what kind of foods are served at a Nohrian banquet… The capital is brimming with jubilation. This is the Nohr I always dreamed of! ...The hell did Kaze come from?  Seeing Nohr filled with so many smiling faces is a dream come true. We sacrificed so much to arrive at this victory we’re now happily celebrating.  Yeah, winning lopsidedly does that to a person. Even if a path looks dark up ahead, you must keep walking until you see the light. Thank you, all of you, for believing in me. Having all of you here at my side fills my heart with joy.
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Jun 15, 2017 00:18
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Corrine, tens of thousands of people are dead. We killed half of the Hoshidan royal family. All because you didn't tell us and thought making us partake in a national massacre was easier than telling us the slime monster thing, or showing me the goddamn orb. Oh well, you have to stick with your choices! ... 
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Jun 15, 2017 00:45
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RevolverDivider posted:How can you consistently be worse then the content we actually have. And what, exactly, is wrong with my ideas that ISN'T wrong with the game we got? Because frankly, I have trouble seeing much that the game did right, or even not-completely-wrong. I mean, if you just keep saying stuff like "this is even worse than what we've already got" without context I'll just have to assume that you're trolling.
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Jun 15, 2017 01:34
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Wow, I forgot just how incredibly dire the writing in this game is. Everyone acts like an idiot, plot threads get dropped all over the place, and character importance is incredibly random. There is so little gravity to the final boss, it's unreal. It would also be incredibly easy to keep Takumi as the final boss without this "BUY REVELATIONS" nonsense - just have him escape his execution and show up at the last minute with his personal guards to make one last desperate attempt to murder Corrine. It's mind blowing how inexcusably bad it all is.
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Jun 15, 2017 01:50
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inthesto posted:Wow, I forgot just how incredibly dire the writing in this game is. Everyone acts like an idiot, plot threads get dropped all over the place, and character importance is incredibly random. Yes, the BLATANT ADVERTISING is probably the worst part; I mean, Birthright at least had some semblance of closure by the end, while Conquest completely loses that by having Zombie Takumi randomly show up, and thus forcing both the player and, to a lesser extent, the characters to wonder where he came from. Remember, endgame bosses should not appear in a vacuum; one should first consider what they add to the story before selecting them, and Zombie Takumi, frankly, is actively detrimental to Conquest's story due to ending it on a "to be continued" note (or even Game Over, Try The Right Route, depending on how you read it) rather than a "the end" like Birthright got. To be honest, most of my suggestions on alternate last bosses have been made with this sense of closure in mind; without random zombies running around, the player doesn't question who MADE them, which means they actually get the impression that the game's really over.
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Jun 15, 2017 02:02
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CptWedgie posted:And what, exactly, is wrong with my ideas that ISN'T wrong with the game we got? Because frankly, I have trouble seeing much that the game did right, or even not-completely-wrong. garon Yukimura or loving kiragi are all hilariously bad choices for final boss of conquest and even worse then Zombie Takumi, who while terrible, is at least a boss with some elements to them that can work. Garon is just loving boring and makes the murdering Hoshido stuff even more toothless, Yukimura is a non-entity, and kiragi like all the rest of the children exists only in a plot void and would be awkward and horrible to pull out of nowhere. Most of your gameplay suggestions are really dumb and boring and you have a weird hatred for the gimmicks that are actually fun to play against and interesting like Iago's staff savant because 'that's cheating.' like Conquest is hilariously terrible plot wise but the gameplay is mostly well done besides an overuse of gimmick maps and most of your story suggestions are just dumb meaningless 'twists' for the sake of twists that just come off as large nothings.
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Jun 15, 2017 02:32
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I find it hilarious that they probably went with 'takumi, but possessed' to avoid angering people who like takumi and think he's a good dude but made birthright xander anyway if more characters behaved significantly differently between conquest and birthright maybe people wouldn't be so mad about xander being the one dude who does so to the point of absurdity
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Jun 15, 2017 02:39
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Emperordaein posted:
The orb broke after Corrine and Azura looked at it.
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Jun 15, 2017 02:40
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BlazeEmblem posted:The orb broke after Corrine and Azura looked at it. By that I meant Azura showing the pre-broken orb while Leo was around. Considering she gave it to him in Birthright... Where she only let him see it. God, it's either him or Corrin, there can be nobody else...
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Jun 15, 2017 03:01
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I mean, literally nothing was stopping Azura from showing all the siblings at once.
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Jun 15, 2017 03:01
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Well it's obvious to me after reading the ending to Birthright in this thread that they wanted to end both games with the surviving Nohr/Hoshido siblings on good terms with each other, and they especially wanted all the siblings that died to make peace with Corrine before dying. Even among the writers, there must have been someone who realized that anything else would have weighed heavily on this "permanent peace treaty" happy ending they decided on. For example, the surviving Hoshido sisters can't go "this peace is what Takumi would have wanted" if he had come in at the last second with his few remaining vassals to serve as the last boss in a final, desperate attempt to kill Corrine, cursing her name (and Nohr's) until his final breath. Hence, Zombie Takumi. And I know CptWedgie's posts are bad but after reading through an ending like that it's natural for people to think they could have done a better job, even if they obviously can't. I'm not a writer but I kinda feel the same. 
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Jun 15, 2017 03:02
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RevolverDivider posted:garon Yukimura or loving kiragi are all hilariously bad choices for final boss of conquest and even worse then Zombie Takumi, who while terrible, is at least a boss with some elements to them that can work. Garon is just loving boring and makes the murdering Hoshido stuff even more toothless, Yukimura is a non-entity, and kiragi like all the rest of the children exists only in a plot void and would be awkward and horrible to pull out of nowhere. Most of your gameplay suggestions are really dumb and boring and you have a weird hatred for the gimmicks that are actually fun to play against and interesting like Iago's staff savant because 'that's cheating.' Yukimura I'll concede was probably a bad idea. Garon may be boring, but at least he'd make SENSE while simultaneously giving some level of closure. Kiragi as the last boss would actually improve him, partly because it'd give him at least SOME plot presence even if it isn't in his own route and partly because it'd show that the Deeprealms aren't exclusive to the Avatar (who gets too much special treatment by the plot already); if you want to keep the gimmick, just have him find the Fujin Yumi before he shows up and he should be able to pull it off. Or if you're THAT insistent that the last boss just HAS to be Takumi, go with inthesto's suggestion and just have Takumi NOT BE DEAD. You seem to have an interesting definition of "fun" there... Staff Savant is not just cheating, it's GRATUITOUS cheating, because it's fully possible to make a challenging map without giving the boss immunity to the rules of the game, AND CONQUEST HAS ALREADY DEMONSTRATED THIS. It's about as bad as some of the Lunatic+ skills in Awakening, in my book; "100%-activation combat skill, applied to some of the most frustrating skills possible" versus "infinite staff use, exclusive to one unit" is a tough call with what status staves can do to you in this game. Lemme put it this way: Staff Savant singlehandedly turns the battle against Iago into one of those overused gimmick maps you just complained about; you need to plan the entire map around the fact that he can and WILL abuse those staves forever, if you give him the chance. Incidentally, I specified "what's wrong with my ideas that ISN'T wrong with the game we got?" All my suggestions make just as much sense in-story as what we actually got, if not more so; at the very least, they are not ACTIVELY DETRIMENTAL to the story of Conquest (note that this is specifically Conquest, not Fates as a whole; I'm in no position to judge that) like Zombie Takumi is. I, for one, don't like the idea of playing Birthright just to find out how the hell Takumi got possessed, so if I was writing it I'd go with the "if it's not shown it never happened" rule and just make that actually Takumi the whole time instead of this possession nonsense. You seem to be hung up on a "satisfying" last boss, which means you're fixated on Takumi being Conquest's last boss with these specific gimmicks since you're apparently focused on gameplay, even to the detriment of plot; however, I, personally, feel that closure is not just its own form of satisfaction in games, but the PRIMARY ELEMENT. If you have no reason to believe the story's over and no hope of a continuation (Revelations is its own story, not a continuation), that completely removes any satisfaction from the game by retroactively making the whole thing meaningless... not that Conquest wasn't meaningless to begin with, but even the satisfaction of "at least it's over" is missing here because ZAHMBEE TAHKOOMEE! WERE'S DA REEL LASBOSS?!
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Jun 15, 2017 03:15
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I personally had alot of thoughts on how to fix the game, but honestly to make the plot competent, you need to go right to the core and uproot/rework massive chunks of the game. Not to mention that my ideas are coloured by my own personal bias, and it's hard to separate from that. It's not something I should pretend is superior for everyone. Like, I would have liked Mikoto to be Conquest's final boss, but you need ALOT of rewriting to even get to that point. Hell, writing the endgame and filling in the road to get there is probably what caused more than a few issues with the actual plot. I could only see the Conquest plot working as is if it was made into a Spec Ops/NieR style deconstruction, where the game treats it's cast as awful, broken human beings, and even then it could easily come off as wanky to alot of people. I'd like to see Hinoka and Sakura make it clear that they despise Corrine and all her Norhian siblings, and make it clear that they will never forgive them, but for the plot at large, it's an attempt at a deconstruction that comes out of nowhere in a vacuum, and you'd need to go back further and further to make more changes to support it, and by that point, you've rewritten the entire plot. I think Conquest is an awful plot. One of the worst, if not THE worst i've seen in the Games media, because of it's rampant plot holes, it's unlikeable characters, it's awful emotional contrivances and manipulations, the sleeze of it being a vehicle for more paid DLC, the disappointment of how the promising concept was squandered, and the fact that the series, despite it's story issues, has shown it's capable of so much better. But by this point, I don't know what else there is to be said. I'm still roasting Revelation when we get to that. Emperordaein fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 03:19
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| # ? May 21, 2024 22:31 |
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(Accidental post)
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Jun 15, 2017 03:21
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