WillyTheNewGuy posted:

She could have announced that she would not be moving into the AK governor's mansion while it was staffed with slave labor?

VitalSigns posted:

No, the postwar prison system that continues to this day was a deliberate recreation of African American slavery, including using torture to force prisoners to work on former slave plantations

Brainiac Five posted:

So, she could have done nothing to actually liberate the people involved. She could have suggested to her husband. Well, Bill Clinton is not Hillary Clinton, and unless we're raging misogynists, his racism isn't hers. Furthermore, the Arkansas use of prison labor in the governor's mansion is by statute. Furthermore, the only thing this would change is the symbolic aspect, since the prisoners would still be used for labor elsewhere. I guess the really bad part is the symbolism, and not the fact that labor is being compelled from primarily nonwhite people.

Furthermore, this post implies that Bill Clinton would have ended prison labor if not for Hillary Clinton, who is thus responsible for prison labor. That's so grotesque I don't really know where to begin with it, apart from the fact that NFS and the rest of the LFugee brigade will seize on it and cackle about how that uppity whore Clinton will get what's coming to her.

Brainiac Five posted:

So, she could have done nothing to actually liberate the people involved. She could have suggested to her husband. Well, Bill Clinton is not Hillary Clinton, and unless we're raging misogynists, his racism isn't hers. Furthermore, the Arkansas use of prison labor in the governor's mansion is by statute. Furthermore, the only thing this would change is the symbolic aspect, since the prisoners would still be used for labor elsewhere. I guess the really bad part is the symbolism, and not the fact that labor is being compelled from primarily nonwhite people.

Furthermore, this post implies that Bill Clinton would have ended prison labor if not for Hillary Clinton, who is thus responsible for prison labor. That's so grotesque I don't really know where to begin with it, apart from the fact that NFS and the rest of the LFugee brigade will seize on it and cackle about how that uppity whore Clinton will get what's coming to her.

C. Everett Koop posted:

Obama is the greatest disaster in the history of the United States, far worse than the Civil War or WW2 or 9/11. Anyone who considered themselves a true leftist or liberal that doesn't spit on the ground when they say Obama's name is a fraud and a charlatan. We would have been better off with eight years of Sarah Palin than eight hours of Barack Obama.

Brainiac Five posted:

Glad to see your business degree gave you the moral fortitude to say "actually, if you're rude it's okay to call you a child molester", Ytlaya.

stone cold posted:

so what exactly is your perspective on japanese-american internment

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

of all the hills for eff to die on, this was not one I expected

Brainiac Five posted:

Hell yes, more posts about how white people experience slavery just like in the antebellum South. And with a disgustingly hateful little photoshop to go with it.

The Atlantic posted:

Crops stretch to the horizon. Black bodies pepper the landscape, hunched over as they work the fields. Officers on horseback, armed, oversee the workers. To the untrained eye, the scenes in Angola for Life: Rehabilitation and Reform Inside the Louisiana State Penitentiary, an Atlantic documentary filmed on an old Southern slave-plantation-turned-prison, could have been shot 150 years ago. The imagery haunts, and the stench of slavery and racial oppression lingers through the 13 minutes of footage...Those troubling opening scenes of the documentary offer visual proof of a truth that America has worked hard to ignore: In a sense, slavery never ended at Angola; it was reinvented.
...
Angola’s farm operations and other similar prison industries have ancestral roots in the black chattel slavery of the South. Specifically, the proliferation of prison labor camps grew during the Reconstruction era following the Civil War, a time when southern states established large prisons throughout the region that they quickly filled, primarily with black men. Many of these prisons had very recently been slave plantations, Angola and Mississippi State Penitentiary (known as Parchman Farm) among them. Other prisons began convict-leasing programs, where, for a leasing fee, the state would lease out the labor of incarcerated workers as hired work crews. Convict leasing was cheaper than slavery, since farm owners and companies did not have to worry at all about the health of their workers.

In this new era of prison industry, the criminal “justice” system, the state determined the size of the worker pool. Scores of recently freed slaves and their descendants now labored to generate revenue for the state under a Jim Crow regime.

Futuresight posted:

No it implies both of the Clintons didn't give a gently caress because if either of them did they would have done something about it. And I don't care how symbolic something is. You don't go but would it end slavery in ALL of Arkansas as an excuse for not putting up a fuss over the use of prison slavery in your loving home. Although I guess it's consistent with Hillary's "but would it end racism?" argument. Not using slaves in your own home would not end racism, so you've got me there.

Ytlaya posted:

...what? The irony isn't because you're a child molester, but rather because you throw extreme/exaggerated accusations and insults at people constantly (yet in your mini-dialogue had your political opponents fill that role instead).

Also there's no need to mock the finance degree, as I can assure you that I got little use out of it and that my experience getting it actually contributed to my negative sentiment towards finance/the wealthy.


It was wrong and obviously motivated by racism. I mostly disagree with the arguments saying that the war is a mitigating factor, because one could make the same argument about prison labor (i.e. "it's not as racist because they're convicted criminals"). Both of those arguments would be wrong, since it's obviously racist in both cases. I only say "most" because one could argue that there's less excuse to allow such things in recent decades than there was in the 1940s, but I don't think that point is strong enough to make a big difference. Brainiac Five's argument (that things that are wrong can't be compared with each other) was not a good one, though, as it's obviously entirely possible for two undeniably-wrong things to be wrong to differing degrees (depending on context, etc).

VitalSigns posted:

Because today Brainworms Five is playing the role of *spins comically-sized Wheel-of-Fortune Wheel* "National Review columnist and part-time Fox News guest", I can look forward to "ah if there's a single white person in prison, then black slaves working on southern plantations isn't racist, you're the racist!"

Brainiac Five posted:

I didn't say anything about how they can't be compared, my argument is that they could be compared and that the comparisons being made were hideous ones which made Hillary Clinton actually worse than Hitler if you carried them to their logical conclusion.

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

it's time to take a break buddy

Brainiac Five posted:

I said it was racist. I said it was wrong to say it was literally chattel slavery.

The Atlantic posted:

Angola’s farm operations and other similar prison industries have ancestral roots in the black chattel slavery of the South. Specifically, the proliferation of prison labor camps grew during the Reconstruction era following the Civil War, a time when southern states established large prisons throughout the region that they quickly filled, primarily with black men. Many of these prisons had very recently been slave plantations, Angola and Mississippi State Penitentiary (known as Parchman Farm) among them. Other prisons began convict-leasing programs, where, for a leasing fee, the state would lease out the labor of incarcerated workers as hired work crews. Convict leasing was cheaper than slavery, since farm owners and companies did not have to worry at all about the health of their workers.

In this new era of prison industry, the criminal “justice” system, the state determined the size of the worker pool. Scores of recently freed slaves and their descendants now labored to generate revenue for the state under a Jim Crow regime.

VitalSigns posted:

Brainiac Five posted:

So, once again, arguing that it's possible for white people to experience chattel slavery. Also arguing that the world we live in is exactly the same as 1840 and nothing has changed with regards to race. That's a real winning argument.

The Atlantic posted:

To the untrained eye, the scenes in Angola for Life: Rehabilitation and Reform Inside the Louisiana State Penitentiary, an Atlantic documentary filmed on an old Southern slave-plantation-turned-prison, could have been shot 150 years ago. The imagery haunts, and the stench of slavery and racial oppression lingers through the 13 minutes of footage.

VitalSigns posted:

Brainiac Five posted:

Them "not giving a gently caress" (which is itself an interestingly debatable statement that ties into people's ability to feel they can resist power structures like racism, but that's about twenty levels above anyone else in this thread besides stone cold and Ze Pollack)

VitalSigns posted:

FYI "there were white slaves too" is literally a slaver-justification argument.

Now Effectronica will be possessed by *draws from a large black top-hat* Confederate Lost-Causer shithead!

Futuresight posted:

An interesting point to bring up about a Governor and his wife who was a successful lawyer in her own right. Both of whom evidently felt worthy of running for President of the United States of America. We're not talking about 2 random people off the street here.

Brainiac Five posted:

I am specifically saying that there aren't white slaves and that the prison system is not slavery because it acts on white people as well, you lying rotten piece of poo poo.

VitalSigns posted:

Ah technically a chattel slave can be sold at auction whereas prison slaves are rented to corporations, and a chattel slaves' children are slaves by law whereas prison slavery it's just a de facto consequence of a racist justice system created to hold black people in bondage, so it's totally different and how dare you impugn the honor of the South

VitalSigns posted:

Ah technically a chattel slave can be sold at auction whereas prison slaves are rented to corporations, and a chattel slaves' children are slaves by law whereas prison slavery it's just a de facto consequence of a racist justice system created to hold black people in bondage, so it's totally different and how dare you impugn the honor of the South and of the Northern states who thought slavery was a pretty good idea as long as they called it something else

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

wait why are you making this argument? it is a horrifying argument.

stone cold posted:

*somebody makes a nuanced point about how though chattel slavery and prison slavery are rooted in the same evil and are both undoubtedly racist evil stains upon the country; however, to call them the same is in a sense to diminish the sheer cruelty and atrocity of the chattel slavery system*

*vitalsigns flies in, ready to comically miss the point*

rudatron posted:

I always thought slavery was involuntary servitude. Guess I'm not woke enough to see how, actually, forced prison labor is not slavery.

Majorian posted:

It seems to me that he's the one who is grasping the point pretty squarely. Everyone who has claimed that Clinton has actually been a friend to people of color, has been made to look pretty foolish in light of this.

rudatron posted:

I always thought slavery was involuntary servitude. Guess I'm not woke enough to see how, actually, forced prison labor is not slavery.

Majorian posted:

It seems to me that he's the one who is grasping the point pretty squarely. Everyone who has claimed that Clinton has actually been a friend to people of color, has been made to look pretty foolish in light of this.

The Kingfish posted:

Oh my god this thread.

stone cold posted:

chattel slavery in has a very specific definition which includes the commodification of human beings (hence chattel, as the people are treated as the property of the owners, e.g., as chattel)

this in contrast to forced labor-including prison labor and what we tend to conceive of when we think of modern human trafficking-and to debt bondage

but ok keep on keepin on

Brainiac Five posted:

Frankly, the ANC should have exterminated the white population of South Africa from this Earth. Neill Blomkamp and Die Antwoord and Sharlto Copley are small prices to pay against the criminality that has ensued from letting them live.

Brainiac Five posted:

The argument on display here is that there's nothing wrong with treating people as objects, as things. Because that is a major distinction between chattel slavery and prison labor and yet the two are claimed to be identical.