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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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SpaceCadetBob posted:I have no way of knowing if this building has a standpipe system or not, but the lack of one would have inhibited the fire fighters ability to fight the fire early on when it was only on a floor or two, and will now greatly slow down the ability to put out remnant fires on the high floors. Even with a standpipe system in the building, getting water up ~260' of building while still having enough pressure to safely approach a fire might be beyond the capability of the fire pumpers at the disposal of the fire service. All tall buildings in the UK (ISTR over 5 stories or over 20 dwellings) will have at least a "dry riser", which is a standpipe as you describe. Very tall ones and ones with sprinkler systems may also have a "wet faller" which is the same thing but full of water and connected to the communal cistern at the top of the building, to allow firefighters to start fighting as soon as possible because of the amount of time (and multiple pumps) it can take to get water to the top of the building with sufficient pressure to fight a fire. Demiurge4 posted:Someone mentioned earlier that a tenant had said he saw them use wooden beams as bracing for the padding. I can't find anything in that but if true, would the carbon help the aluminum act as thermite? No, thermite is iron oxide and aluminium. Aluminium burns like a fucker as soon as it gets sufficient heat into it and the passivation layer is breached, but a wood fire isn't normally enough to do that.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:00
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learnincurve posted:Only people on DLA are very disabled kiddies you cretin. I work with people who get DLA, although they are being moved onto PIP. Maybe watch the hair trigger buddy.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:04
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ronya posted:they're both carefully avoiding saying who they think is at fault, but are quite willing to provide suggestions RandomPauI posted:I really hope the UK uses this as an opportunity to implement a national framework for disaster response. It's already part of the way there with the Gold, Silver, Bronze system for first responders.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:05
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Namtab posted:I hope people post good links. As opposed to the links with screaming children and also people making their last YouTube vid before they die horribly. That is my request re:fire chat. Forward them to the Tories who's policies allowed this to happen. I want them to be haunted by this for the rest of their natural loving lives.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:09
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Gonzo McFee posted:I work with people who get DLA, although they are being moved onto PIP. You really shouldn't be saying most people on DLA are faking it if you work with them. How many people have died or killed themselves after being thrown off after the assessments again? 3000+ isn't it?
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Jun 15, 2017 07:10
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Grenfell Action Group Blog posted:Unfortunately, the Grenfell Action Group have reached the conclusion that only an incident that results in serious loss of life of KCTMO residents will allow the external scrutiny to occur that will shine a light on the practices that characterise the malign governance of this non-functioning organisation. 
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Jun 15, 2017 07:11
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RandomPauI posted:I deleted this post a few times but...here it goes. I joked about it earlier but UK councils are already legally obliged to have plans in place for just this sort of thing. I was chatting to one of my local councilors (a Tory but surprisingly humanoid - he was helping to coordinate all the various donation drives people in Tower Hamlets had put together, and had scrounged up a couple of vans from the council and Canary Wharf Group to take stuff over there). He was more than a little surprised just how uncoordinated K&C's response had been - LBTH has plans which admittedly haven't been updated since the Thames Barrier was built, but which are still regularly drilled and occasionally used for real when we discover another little present from the Luftwaffe. I didn't have the heart to point out it's one of the safest Tory councils in the country and have been merrily slashing services to keep council taxes low even before central Government cut a load of central funding, and that may well have something to do with the lacklustre response.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:12
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learnincurve posted:You really shouldn't be saying most people on DLA are faking it if you work with them. How many people have died or killed themselves after being thrown off after the assessments again? 3000+ isn't it? They don't seriously believe that.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:14
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It's just struck me this morning that this disaster could have a major impact on the London property market. People have been asking for years what could burst the insane London property bubble and now these horrible pictures and videos have been beamed around the world. If the prospect of paying £500k to live in a high-rise tinderbox and subsequently dying horribly, while a bunch of chortling middlemen count their money doesn't put people off buying in London, I don't know what will. Basically, I suspect tens of thousands of high rise properties in London have just become unsellable.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:17
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TACD posted:It's like the opposite of racists explaining their one black friend as "one of the good ones"; rich capitalist lizards are actually all fine and great except for these specific ones who are just some bad apples (because they hosed up and invited scrutiny on the rest of us). nah they just want to name names without getting hit with a defamation hammer
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Jun 15, 2017 07:23
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Pistol_Pete posted:It's just struck me this morning that this disaster could have a major impact on the London property market. People have been asking for years what could burst the insane London property bubble and now these horrible pictures and videos have been beamed around the world. If the prospect of paying £500k to live in a high-rise tinderbox and subsequently dying horribly, while a bunch of chortling middlemen count their money doesn't put people off buying in London, I don't know what will. i admire your optimism
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Jun 15, 2017 07:24
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3000 deaths- I heard 2'500 but was under the impression that that figure was fairly tenuous and they issued a report specifically addressing (challenging) it? Would welcome anyone who's been paying attention's input.
Mugsbaloney fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 07:25
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Pistol_Pete posted:It's just struck me this morning that this disaster could have a major impact on the London property market. People have been asking for years what could burst the insane London property bubble and now these horrible pictures and videos have been beamed around the world. If the prospect of paying £500k to live in a high-rise tinderbox and subsequently dying horribly, while a bunch of chortling middlemen count their money doesn't put people off buying in London, I don't know what will. Murders, riots, terrorist attacks, and much of the housing stock being literally unliveable hasn't put a dent in the London property market, and I fully anticipate it still costing >£1k a month to rent anything larger than a cupboard when the entire place glows green and is overrun by six foot cockroaches (although they'd probably be the ones working as estate agents so no change there then eh? arf arf arf little bit of politics)
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Jun 15, 2017 07:25
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Pistol_Pete posted:It's just struck me this morning that this disaster could have a major impact on the London property market. People have been asking for years what could burst the insane London property bubble and now these horrible pictures and videos have been beamed around the world. If the prospect of paying £500k to live in a high-rise tinderbox and subsequently dying horribly, while a bunch of chortling middlemen count their money doesn't put people off buying in London, I don't know what will. Hahaha not gonna happen.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:30
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learnincurve posted:You really shouldn't be saying most people on DLA are faking it if you work with them. How many people have died or killed themselves after being thrown off after the assessments again? 3000+ isn't it? Yes, I was talking about the mindset where people can simultaneously accept DLA or any other government benefits while still buying into the Tory narrative of scroungers and strivers, making exceptions for themselves and the people they know because they know they aren't faking it and as such blame the people they see as scroungers for being thrown off DLA and PIP. I see it often. In fact I see it all the time. Almost as if all the "Dole scum/Guy claiming DLA filmed dancing on daytrip" stories aren't designed to convince the Telegraph reading comfortably retired but the poor working class that their destruction is necessary to get the "scroungers".
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Jun 15, 2017 07:31
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Pistol_Pete posted:It's just struck me this morning that this disaster could have a major impact on the London property market. People have been asking for years what could burst the insane London property bubble and now these horrible pictures and videos have been beamed around the world. If the prospect of paying £500k to live in a high-rise tinderbox and subsequently dying horribly, while a bunch of chortling middlemen count their money doesn't put people off buying in London, I don't know what will. Given that most countries (Germany is an exception and requires all of the external padding to be inflammable) have the same kind of padding on their buildings (even the Address Hotel fire in Dubai) I highly doubt the market will change that much. It might even get more expensive if regulation change and a lot of buildings have to be retrofitted.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:38
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Yeah here in Melbourne after the 2014 highrise fire where the cladding went up which prompted testing which found that 50% of all clad highrise buildings in the city suffer the same defects. 2017 and the property bubble is still growing.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:42
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The London property market is no where near as string as many in here seem to assume. There are already thousands of high end (in price) properties unsold, to the point some of the being offered with a free Rolls or £250,000 of furniture https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph-property/20170603/281505046182021. The centre of the city is gradually hollowing out with demand only growing in the middle and outer boroughs.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:45
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GaussianCopula posted:Given that most countries (Germany is an exception and requires all of the external padding to be inflammable) have the same kind of padding on their buildings (even the Address Hotel fire in Dubai) I highly doubt the market will change that much. It might even get more expensive if regulation change and a lot of buildings have to be retrofitted. Get out you nazi oval office.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:48
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Yeah, on top of that, there's over 100 'luxury' residential tower blocks currently being planned or under construction in London. Their completion is highly dependent on market confidence - the perception that prices are going to remain high and rising. If that confidence evaporates, the companies building them either go bankrupt or just halt construction.
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Jun 15, 2017 07:49
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Pistol_Pete posted:It's just struck me this morning that this disaster could have a major impact on the London property market. People have been asking for years what could burst the insane London property bubble and now these horrible pictures and videos have been beamed around the world. If the prospect of paying £500k to live in a high-rise tinderbox and subsequently dying horribly, while a bunch of chortling middlemen count their money doesn't put people off buying in London, I don't know what will. The people buying most places in London aren't living in them. They'll continue to not give a poo poo
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Jun 15, 2017 07:55
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might see more people buy fire insurance maybe
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Jun 15, 2017 07:58
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GaussianCopula posted:Given that most countries (Germany is an exception and requires all of the external padding to be inflammable) have the same kind of padding on their buildings (even the Address Hotel fire in Dubai) I highly doubt the market will change that much. It might even get more expensive if regulation change and a lot of buildings have to be retrofitted. I seriously doubt Germany requires all external padding to be inflammable. And how can you post this and not be in favour of massive regulation? Who gives a gently caress if property owners have to spend a lot of money to prevent people from burning to death? If they aren't willing to spend that money, they're cunts.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:00
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The housing market will crash at some point. (Probably soon as I just bought a house  )
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Jun 15, 2017 08:03
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Has the Conservative party been successfully blamed for the fire at Grenfell Tower yet?
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Jun 15, 2017 08:13
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qhat posted:Has the Conservative party been successfully blamed for the fire at Grenfell Tower yet? Yes.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:14
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As for the housing market in London, check on rightmove how many properties in Kensington and Chelsea under 1 million have not been sold in months and compare that to say, Walthamstow, and that should give you a rough idea where this lovely market is heading.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:17
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qhat posted:Has the Conservative party been successfully blamed for the fire at Grenfell Tower yet? Gavin Barwell was just described on the BBC as sitting on a report into fire regulations, so we're getting there? I mean it's not really a huge leap. <--- Yesss, gang tag 
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Jun 15, 2017 08:17
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Baron Corbyn posted:Yes. I'm not getting the vibes that people are shoving pitchforks down Theresa May's throat specifically because of fire regulations yet.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:19
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Kegluneq posted:Gavin Barwell was just described on the BBC as sitting on a report into fire regulations, so we're getting there? I mean it's not really a huge leap. I want to see some conservative blood because of this since it is basically the government's fault
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Jun 15, 2017 08:21
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qhat posted:I'm not getting the vibes that people are shoving pitchforks down Theresa May's throat specifically because of fire regulations yet. Has she had a press conference since then? The former housing minister and her current chief of staff is a better target all round, there's no way he doesn't reflect badly on her in any case and failures to act by himself (and Boris) are easier to point to. Edit: Some people might say it is wrong to politicise a disaster when investigations are ongoing, but gently caress em, this is something that can absolutely be blamed on politicians not acting when they should. Kegluneq fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 08:23
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Kegluneq posted:Has she had a press conference since then? The former housing minister and her current chief of staff is a better target all round, there's no way he doesn't reflect badly on her in any case and failures to act by himself (and Boris) are easier to point to. I hope so and the buck doesn't just stop at KCTMO.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:25
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This scandal will run for months or years. What's already come out is damning and there'll be hundreds of journalists busily digging into the details: I'm certainly expecting more revelations of corruption and negligence to emerge.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:26
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Kegluneq posted:Has she had a press conference since then? The former housing minister and her current chief of staff is a better target all round, there's no way he doesn't reflect badly on her in any case and failures to act by himself (and Boris) are easier to point to. John Healey is shadow housing but his attack might be blunted by the fact that he was Housing himself under Brown - it means he can't attack any regulations that predate 2010 for being self-evidently too lax ronya fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 08:31
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quote is not edit
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Jun 15, 2017 08:32
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learnincurve posted:You really shouldn't be saying most people on DLA are faking it if you work with them. How many people have died or killed themselves after being thrown off after the assessments again? 3000+ isn't it? He was very clearly and sarcastically posting "this is what people believe".
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Jun 15, 2017 08:37
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You're a good lad learnincurve but you've been picking some odd battles lately
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Jun 15, 2017 08:41
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BBC just did a lil piece on the abolition of mobile roaming charges in the EU from today. No mention of Brexit. Is Brexit denial a widespread phenomenon or is it restricted to the national broadcaster?
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Jun 15, 2017 08:44
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Baron Corbyn posted:I seriously doubt Germany requires all external padding to be inflammable.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:51
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Baron Corbyn posted:And how can you post this and not be in favour of massive regulation? Who gives a gently caress if property owners have to spend a lot of money to prevent people from burning to death? If they aren't willing to spend that money, they're cunts.
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Jun 15, 2017 09:06
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