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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I wonder what the political fallout of firing Mueller would be. Probably nothing as the GOP is so spineless 78% of the public wanted a special counsel. The GOP might not do poo poo but people would be *pissed*.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:45
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Serfer posted:Weren't there rumors that there was evidence of Ryan and McConnell laundering Russian money into the GOP as well? I seem to recall that, but it may have been Louise Mensch craziness. It's not craziness. Search my posts in this thread.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:45
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skeleton warrior posted:Right Wing blogs are all playing up that Mueller's team of prosecutors donated to Democrats and includes someone who once vocally supported Hillary. So obviously, Mueller is a DNC plant (ignore his service in Bush administrations) out to serve DNC interests. It absolutely doesn't matter if your prosecutor is biased against you! It only matters if he's biased for you! I'm angry!
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Jun 15, 2017 13:46
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Spaced God posted:I'm traveling today, which inevitably means the second I'm shut out from the outside world some big story will break and I won't know for hours. It better be a good one you donk. Not just some "should matter" event that ends up creating a 5 hour detail about ... steaming hotdog buns or some poo poo.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:48
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canepazzo posted:Trump's gonna fire Mueller, isn't he? yep as someone i read put it, every time trump thinks of mueller there's a chance he fires him. maybe its 1%. but he is a tempermental child so one of those times, it's going to hit that 1% and the more angry and hurt he is the higher that percentage gets.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:49
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I wonder what the political fallout of firing Mueller would be. Probably nothing as the GOP is so spineless I know the narrative is that everyone loves trump but he's been sinking in popularity steadily with republicans. He's at 83% approval with republicans, 69% with 'conservatives" and 37% with americans. Like in some idea world that would be 0%/0%/0% or whatever but that is really really really low and he's really really really unpopular.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:49
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Night10194 posted:78% of the public wanted a special counsel. Yeah I feel like if the only punishment for reenacting the Friday night massacre is losing re-election in 3 years the country is a debacle Edit: agree his popularity is a dumpster, but he's still more popular than ford after he pardoned Nixon!
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Jun 15, 2017 13:49
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Wouldn't firing Mueller cause a lot of heads to roll? I'm thinking that a lot of GOP members are probably hoping for a "best case scenario" (I cringed a little bit writing that, hence the quotes) that Mueller takes Trump down in a manner that lets their fears be assuaged that they're going to be able to keep their cozy careers.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I know the narrative is that everyone loves trump but he's been sinking in popularity steadily with republicans. He's at 83% approval with republicans, 69% with 'conservatives" and 37% with americans. Like in some idea world that would be 0%/0%/0% or whatever but that is really really really low and he's really really really unpopular. https://twitter.com/ericboehlert/status/875326842756100096 Now it's 35 
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Jun 15, 2017 13:51
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Nixon was still at 50% with Republicans when he resigned. Basically being below 90% with your party when you're looking at 0 from the other side and well below 50 with independents is not a good place to be. It's loving hilarious like 5 months in to a first term.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:51
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evilweasel posted:yep This is what I was thinking also, but don't the logistics of having to find a non-recused AG willing to actually do the firing kind of tap the brakes on that?
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Jun 15, 2017 13:51
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Kekekela posted:This is what I was thinking also, but don't the logistics of having to find a non-recused AG willing to actually do the firing kind of tap the brakes on that? I bet Boente would do it, if only to save his own personal rear end.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:53
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Kekekela posted:This is what I was thinking also, but don't the logistics of having to find a non-recused AG willing to actually do the firing kind of tap the brakes on that? there's the option of signing an executive order voiding the regulations preventing trump from firing him, then firing him directly that requires at least one aide to help out though
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Jun 15, 2017 13:53
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Also there's a non-zero chance that him firing Mueller leads directly to Independent Counsel Robert Mueller.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:54
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Spaced God posted:I'm traveling today, which inevitably means the second I'm shut out from the outside world some big story will break and I won't know for hours. Don't come back. For the good of mankind.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:56
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theflyingorc posted:It absolutely doesn't matter if your prosecutor is biased against you! It only matters if he's biased for you! I'm angry! But but but if the prosecutor doesn't like you, they could spend years digging up everything about you in the vague hope that something connects into an issue that when presented in the right light from the right angle, appears to be a crime! They can ruin your life! Now if only Republicans could come up with an example of that which isn't Ken Starr with Whitewater or Trey Gowdy with Benghazi
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Jun 15, 2017 13:57
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Bloomberg says that Trump is likely to replace Janet Yellen as Fed Chair when her term is up. The most likely replacement is Kevin Warsh. The bolded part is going to lead to some fun times from Trump supporters on Infowars. quote:Kevin Warsh is an American financier, lawyer, government official and academic. During and in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, Warsh was a governor of the Federal Reserve System, and acted as the central bank's primary liaison to Wall Street. He is a distinguished visiting fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution, a member of the Group of Thirty, and a former steering committee member of the Bilderberg Group.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:58
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MrNemo posted:Nixon was still at 50% with Republicans when he resigned. Basically being below 90% with your party when you're looking at 0 from the other side and well below 50 with independents is not a good place to be. It's loving hilarious like 5 months in to a first term. This is why you don't make promises that you can't keep to very desperate people. You may be able to trick them but you can't just say "see, things are all better now." They're not smart enough to know they were being conned but they are smart enough to know things are still poo poo.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:59
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evilweasel posted:yep 
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Jun 15, 2017 14:00
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:This is why you don't make promises that you can't keep to very desperate people. You may be able to trick them but you can't just say "see, things are all better now." They're not smart enough to know they were being conned but they are smart enough to know things are still poo poo. otoh he's now president so it sort of worked out
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Jun 15, 2017 14:00
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In more serious matters, what stops Trump from firing everyone who tries to investigate him? Is the hopes that he does so simply cause him to look bad?
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Jun 15, 2017 14:01
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AceOfFlames posted:In more serious matters, what stops Trump from firing everyone who tries to investigate him? Is the hopes that he does so simply cause him to look bad? Legally? Nothing. Potential impeachment or invoking the 25th amendment are the only practical restraints on Presidential power over the executive branch.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:03
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evilweasel posted:otoh he's now president so it sort of worked out Yeah but his whole life and business are about to have a flamethrower at them. This is going to be a spectacular ride.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:03
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AceOfFlames posted:In more serious matters, what stops Trump from firing everyone who tries to investigate him? Is the hopes that he does so simply cause him to look bad? If he does it enough and looks guilty enough, eventually congress may well renew the whole 'independent prosecutor' thing to get the investigation the hell off their plates where it can no longer hurt them one way or another. Like they did with Nixon.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:03
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evilweasel posted:there's the option of signing an executive order voiding the regulations preventing trump from firing him, then firing him directly My understanding is that we'd be in unsettled law territory and there's a good chance that could actually provoke a lawsuit between the Justice Department and the President. Also Rosenstein would obviously resign anyway, so it wouldn't be much different from firing him. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 14:04
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Kekekela posted:This is what I was thinking also, but don't the logistics of having to find a non-recused AG willing to actually do the firing kind of tap the brakes on that? I think that the brakes in this White House are advisors who have gotten good at not saying no to Trump but instead redirecting him to another vaguely related path and letting him convince himself it was his idea. If we get to the point where he directly orders someone in the DoJ to fire Mueller we've already passed the point of no return. He's already primed to see the entire civil service as scheming against him so if he directly tells someone to do a thing and they say "no, I will not" he's going to take that as confirmation of disrespect and disloyalty. At that point he is going to quintuple-down to show that disloyal rear end in a top hat who's boss.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:04
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AceOfFlames posted:In more serious matters, what stops Trump from firing everyone who tries to investigate him? Is the hopes that he does so simply cause him to look bad? nothing stops him from doing that aside from the fear that maybe that finally causes republicans to betray him or pass legislation creating a firing-proof independent counsel
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Jun 15, 2017 14:05
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crime fighting hog posted:I wonder where his library will be. NYC, I assume. Lynchburg, VA, on the Liberty University campus. I'm honestly floored at how perfectly made for each other Trump and the Christian Right are.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:05
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Sinteres posted:My understanding is that we'd be in unsettled law territory and there's a good chance that could actually provoke a lawsuit between the Justice Department and the President. If he really wanted to exercise the full extent of his powers, then he can just fire the AG and appoint someone who won't pursue the lawsuit. Legally, there are almost no restraints on the President's conduct over the executive branch.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:06
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Is it possible that a load of Republicans are just waiting for the right time to get rid of him to make the party still look good? Like wait until the Dems do something, have an uprising of Republicans that were always on the "we just want to move past all this Russia poo poo and get on with running the country". Then when the right time comes, throw Trump under the bus, blame the Democrats and appeal to the "base' that they were always the good guys in this scenario? Im explaining this terribly, and the idea was lifted from a podcast which explained it soooo much better than i did
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Jun 15, 2017 14:06
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CyberPingu posted:Is it possible that a load of Republicans are just waiting for the right time to get rid of him to make the party still look good? No. Their concern isn't how the party looks, it's their next primary.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:07
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AceOfFlames posted:In more serious matters, what stops Trump from firing everyone who tries to investigate him? Is the hopes that he does so simply cause him to look bad? Can't fire the whole government. Can only put them on temp vaycay with a shutdown.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:07
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AceOfFlames posted:In more serious matters, what stops Trump from firing everyone who tries to investigate him? Is the hopes that he does so simply cause him to look bad? At this point, firing Mueller would constitute obstruction of justice on its own grounds and require either arbitrarily changing regulations or firing several other people. Its possible for him to do it, but fraught with far more risk than firing Comey--which resulted in a special counsel in the first place.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:07
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CyberPingu posted:Is it possible that a load of Republicans are just waiting for the right time to get rid of him to make the party still look good? evilweasel posted:No. The right time could be as early as next week - if Ossof wins GA-06 suddenly you'll have more than a few republicans start sweating bullets at their (re-)election chances.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:09
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canepazzo posted:The right time could be as early as next week - if Ossof wins GA-06 suddenly you'll have more than a few republicans start sweating bullets at their (re-)election chances. They can't win re-election if 33% of their base considers them a traitor and refuses to vote for them. And Trump commands more than 33% of their base.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:10
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evilweasel posted:No. That doesn't mean the answer is no. I fully believe some (admittedly cowardly) Republican legislators are almost as frustrated by their base's refusal to ditch Trump as we are, and hoping something changes that.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:10
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evilweasel posted:otoh he's now president so it sort of worked out It's a terrible loving job that ensures your entire life is put under a loving microscope, and if you are stupid enough to want the job your life probably isn't going to be spotless when put under a microscope, and basically 70% of the world will flat out hate you, and it'll prematurely age you, and after you are dead and gone your legacy can be measured in seconds, by and large. Being President worked out well for practically loving nobody who ever had the job. The greatest sign of Donald Trump's stupidity and narcissism is that he actually wanted to stop being one of the coddled rich to take it.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:11
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Sinteres posted:That doesn't mean the answer is no. I fully believe some (admittedly cowardly) Republican legislators are almost as frustrated by their base's refusal to ditch Trump as we are, and hoping something changes that. I'm sure they are, but that hasn't had them do poo poo about him for well over a year by now.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:12
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OctaMurk posted:At this point, firing Mueller would constitute obstruction of justice on its own grounds and require either arbitrarily changing regulations or firing several other people. Or Sessions using his elfin powers and un-recusing himself to fire Mueller. The fact that breaks my brain the most is that Mueller was Bush's appointment who led the FBI after 9/11. The cognitive dissonance is impressive.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:13
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evilweasel posted:nothing stops him from doing that aside from the fear that maybe that finally causes republicans to betray him or pass legislation creating a firing-proof independent counsel There's also the possibility that a state AG fires up a substitute investigation. It would be far from ideal because they can't bring the big charges or make use of the experience in the FBI but the NY AG would not be able to be fired by Trump and could look into some of the things which would have state law equivalents like the money laundering that Mueller is reportedly also looking into.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:16
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