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B B posted:I don't really know much about Senate procedure, but this seems like something Senate Dems should at least try. Democrats used that in the House and are planning to use that in the Senate (the "vote-a-rama"). Democrats got Republicans on the record supporting dick pills for rapists as part of it (seriously). They're not doing it right now because you can't, until there's a bill to amend. I am not clear however if that process can be used to effectively filibuster like that tweetstorm suggests, but if it can, it should be. But you wouldn't necessarily announce that was your plan right now before there's a bill.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:28
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B B posted:So, even though Republicans are using reconciliation, there is apparently a way for Democrats to effectively filibuster AHCA through the reconciliation amendment process: Jfc make a god drat blog post and stop posting 20 loving connected tweets.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:28
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evilweasel posted:Democrats used that in the House and are planning to use that in the Senate (the "vote-a-rama"). Democrats got Republicans on the record supporting dick pills for rapists as part of it (seriously). That's fair, and like I said I know almost nothing about Senate procedure. I'm mostly posting it because Senate Dems may need some prodding from constituents to actually do it, so make calls if you can.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:29
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aware of dog posted:This seems like a "One weird trick to defeat lovely legislation! Republicans hate it!" What's to stop McConnell from just changing the rules for reconciliation? the filibuster itself is literally "one weird trick!" and tying the Senate up in knots with the rules is a longstanding part of the Senate
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Jun 15, 2017 17:29
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CyberPingu posted:Jfc make a god drat blog post and stop posting 20 loving connected tweets. Yeah if you do that people won't read it, welcome to the future of "long form" content.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:30
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Just saw an AARP ad against the healthcare bill, it was pretty good. Basically a doctor telling 2 nice old people why their doctor bills would become *terrifying*.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:32
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B B posted:So, even though Republicans are using reconciliation, there is apparently a way for Democrats to effectively filibuster AHCA through the reconciliation amendment process: The Senate Dems should ONE HUNDRED PERCENT do this. But McConnell will just change the rules with 50 votes.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:32
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Honestly it wouldn't even look bad if McConnel destroyed such a rule-lawyering tactic.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:32
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Even if McConnell destroyed the tactic, it would at least make news. People would find it funny that Democrats proposed a hundred thousand amendments to the bill.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:35
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I just called Bob Casey's office and gave my support for Filibuster by Amendment. No idea if it's legit or not, but it sounds cool.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:36
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sean10mm posted:Just saw an AARP ad against the healthcare bill, it was pretty good. Basically a doctor telling 2 nice old people why their doctor bills would become *terrifying*. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. It was basically like, "in terms of insurance the only medical aid I can give you is to tell you to gird yourself for the icy hands of the grave."
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Jun 15, 2017 17:36
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B B posted:I don't really know much about Senate procedure, but this seems like something Senate Dems should at least try. This would require Senate democrats to have a spine. I'd love to see it, but it won't happen.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:37
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Dirk Pitt posted:This would require Senate democrats to have a spine. I'd love to see it, but it won't happen. Unless I am misreading, it seems like something that can be done by individual Senators. I don't know how long it takes to produce an amendment, but maybe it's something that can be done by a handful of rogue Democrats? Just spit-ballin' here.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:39
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B B posted:Unless I am misreading, it seems like something that can be done by individual Senators. I don't know how long it takes to produce an amendment, but maybe it's something that can be done by a handful of rogue Democrats? poo poo, I bet we could whip up a neural net to generate a couple 100K amendments
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Jun 15, 2017 17:41
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The Glumslinger posted:poo poo, I bet we could whip up a neural net to generate a couple 100K amendments Goon Project?!?!?! I'll get started on some concept art
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Jun 15, 2017 17:41
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FizFashizzle posted:Goon Project?!?!?! I'll make the logo
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Jun 15, 2017 17:42
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Imagine four amendments on the edge of a cliff... That's AHCA.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:42
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what senators really need is an explanation of how you problematically create a hundred thousand unique amendments. or just go ahead and do it, make a web app that creates an arbitrary number of amendments that pass reconciliation (must have an effect on the budget), preferably ones that would be vaugely bad to vote against my suggestion: one that increases the tax rate on the rich in increments of 0.0000001% and directs that money to pre-existing conditions "first, i propose an amendment to raise the top income tax bracket to 39.6000000001, and the capital gains tax rate to 20.0000000001, and all money raised by this goes to the grossly underfunded high-risk pools. i put this to a vote. no? ok, how about we raise the top income tax bracket to 39.6000000002%, and the capital gains tax rate to 20.0000000002%? i put this to a vote. no? ok, ..."
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Jun 15, 2017 17:42
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"republicans refused to raise taxes on the rich by a single dollar to pay for your health care. one single dollar!"
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Jun 15, 2017 17:44
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*Introduces amendement to formally recognize the number 75 as the official number of the United States of America* "I would like to urge the members to vote yes on this amendment......." <20 minute speech> Senate votes no Fast forward 272 days: *Introduces amendment to formally recognize the number 273974 as the official number of the United States of America* "I am urging my colleagues to support this amendment..."
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Jun 15, 2017 17:44
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evilweasel posted:what senators really need is an explanation of how you problematically create a hundred thousand unique amendments. or just go ahead and do it, make a web app that creates an arbitrary number of amendments that pass reconciliation (must have an effect on the budget), preferably ones that would be vaugely bad to vote against Presiding officer can rule amendments out of order and just move on, with 50 votes even if there's no rule saying so.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:44
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Quorum posted:Presiding officer can rule amendments out of order and just move on, with 50 votes even if there's no rule saying so. does he have to rule that each specific amendment is out of order?
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Jun 15, 2017 17:45
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evilweasel posted:"republicans refused to raise taxes on the rich by a single dollar to pay for your health care. one single dollar!" And they did it 12823775 times in a year!
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Jun 15, 2017 17:45
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You know Mitch McConnell has some pre Civil War procedural trick up his sleeve to Bill Belichick his way out of that situation.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:46
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I mean I entirely believe that there's a mechanism to shut out filibuster by amendment, or it would have been done before. I think it's worth doing even if it gets immediately shut down because it'd be so absurd it would help get coverage.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:47
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I would pay 20 bucks for my drafted amendment to be proposed, let's have the DNC use it as a fundraising tool at the same time.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:47
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FizFashizzle posted:You know Mitch McConnell has some pre Civil War procedural trick up his sleeve to Bill Belichick his way out of that situation. ... and?
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Jun 15, 2017 17:47
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Eltoasto posted:I would pay 20 bucks for my drafted amendment to be proposed, let's have the DNC use it as a fundraising tool at the same time.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:48
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Eltoasto posted:I would pay 20 bucks for my drafted amendment to be proposed, let's have the DNC use it as a fundraising tool at the same time. This.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:49
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evilweasel posted:does he have to rule that each specific amendment is out of order? Does reconciliation require the presiding officer to recognize members to offer amendments? That's a common trick to stop stuff like this, just refuse to recognize any Democrats offering an amendment. Then hearing no amendendments being offered and seconded (as you ignore them doing so) you move the previous question.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:50
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interesting: https://www.washington.edu/federalrelations/2017/01/09/vote-a-rama/ apparently this has been done in the past, people just eventually let it go forward: quote:What makes a budget resolution different is the clock. Once cloture is invoked on a customary bill, all motions, amendments, and passage must conclude by the end of debate time, which is 30 hours. Already, a budget bill receives 20 additional hours of debate. Furthering the curiousness of the Senate budget process, however, is that any amendment that is offered must be disposed of before adoption of the resolution.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:50
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https://twitter.com/existentialfish/status/875373398997823490 https://twitter.com/memeorandum/status/875355032559996929 https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/875387974900477953 https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/875357780567261184 https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/875393796929933312 https://twitter.com/LoopEmma/status/875382861519609856 https://twitter.com/LoopEmma/status/875392643953565698 Re: the WannaCry hack: https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/875356000617992192 Sasse isn't the good Republican you think he is: https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/875111394227736579 The Congressional baseball game: https://twitter.com/nielslesniewski/status/875380010626027520 And from the UK: https://twitter.com/lpolgreen/status/875394254016835585
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Jun 15, 2017 17:50
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Regardless of what happens here and now, when the Democrats take back the Senate I want to see them steamroll over every single obstructionist tactic that exists. I recognize that some of this slow Senate tradition is useful right now, but the amount of obstruction during Obama's presidency was simply absurd. This country is too partisan for the Congress to be dependent upon achieving some kind of mega-majority to pass anything. The only reason McConnel keeps any "Senate tradition" around is to project his own members from taking unpopular votes. Democrats need to force them to drop the pretense. vvv fake news vvv
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Jun 15, 2017 17:51
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Why would the democrats do this when they already said they aren't opposing the AHCA in exchange for continued sanctions on russia?
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Jun 15, 2017 17:51
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Stairmaster posted:Why would the democrats do this when they already said they aren't opposing the AHCA in exchange for continued sanctions on russia? they didn't say anything of the sort and you should stop listening to the idiot who told you they were
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Jun 15, 2017 17:53
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evilweasel posted:they didn't say anything of the sort and you should stop listening to the idiot who told you they were one of the biggest problem democrats face is that people who support them are easily deceived by those who don't.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:58
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Stairmaster posted:Why would the democrats do this when they already said they aren't opposing the AHCA in exchange for continued sanctions on russia? Wrong.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:02
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evilweasel posted:interesting: https://www.washington.edu/federalrelations/2017/01/09/vote-a-rama/ I can't believe vote-a-rama is actually the real term.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:02
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I wanted to reply at length to Skex but the only practical way to do so was to break hist post up and respond to each section. I hope Skex and the thread won't mind.Skex posted:Personally I think that your theories on Narrativists and compaction cycles make a lot of intuitive sense. And does seem to track fairly consistently with historical data. I agree with this completely true in the abstract, and I have been stating for some time now that the total number of Narrativists is decreasing. However the concern here is that there are more Narrativists now than at any previous time in American history where there was a flare up of Narrativism (these events were actually a regular part of American politics until relatively modern history. E.g. the Know-Nothing Party, the Ant-Masonic Panic, McCarthyism, etc.) as well as said Narrativists having taken control of three branches of the Federal Government and one of our two major political parties. Every past instance of Narrativism dying out involved the people with their hands on the levers of power being rational actors who were genuinely making decisions in the best interest of the country. At present that is not true and that is one of the major reasons to be concerned at present. Skex posted:] Consider the OKC bombing. after that McVeigh the militia movement and nativists found themselves under intense scrutiny as the majority of the public say them as a threat to everyone and took action. [/quote] They found themselves under immense scrutiny from a Federal Government that was both willing and fully capable of making them experience dire consequences for criminal activity. At present this situation will not repeat itself because the Federal government is not interested and completely unwilling to punish the militia movement. In point of fact the Trump government is starting to work hand in hand with militias by coordinating with them on patrols of the border with Mexico to publicly stating (in the wake of the Portland attack) that GOP officials needed to start hiring right wing militias for protection from Antif/leftists. Newsweek: Portland Republican Supports Hiring Right-Wing Militias for GOP Security. Skex posted:The structure of the United States for all it's faults does provide a strong protection against the rise of fascistic authoritarian rulers. Look at the current situation, the right despite having managed to take control of the entirety of the government has largely been thwarted in enacting their agenda. There was a certain amount of wisdom in the thinking of the framers in wanting to create a system that is intentionally cumbersome with fighting factions. checks and balances are built in intentionally to prevent the sort of tyranny that the Republicans would love to enact. [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/06/05/trump-is-courting-disaster-by-not-fully-staffing-the-government/?utm_term=.774148c029c0]Washington Post: Trump is courting disaster by not fully staffing the government. [/quote] Skex posted:Nativist movements have always existed in this country and in the end they get stomped out. The KKK was at one time a very active and powerful force of nativists but they were completely wiped out in their initial iteration and the new iterations were but a shadow of the former. Skex posted:In the end the nativists fizzle and fail because human beings are social creatures and social creatures have a vested interest in eliminating threats to the society as a whole. By and large human beings want to be able to take care of themselves and their families in relative peace and security and any group that threatens that will eventually be dealt with in the harshest of terms.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:02
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https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/875388501805723649 https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/875394170415927297 https://twitter.com/DSenFloor/status/875396306981847042 (Both were clerks for Clarence Thomas; Mandelker looks to have worked in the same office as Preet; Tarbert worked in the Obama administration as Associate Counsel to POTUS and Special Counsel to the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs.) Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 18:04
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