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Noctone posted:Because no one ever educates them about it. Which, if you didn't help her out by explaining it to her, makes you part of the problem. yeah I'm not going to jump into a conversation I wasn't a part of to correct someone thirty years older than me about something a simple google search could reveal. In an ideal world people would be open to education about better finances, in the real world people get defensive and think you're just trying to make them look stupid.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:32
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And trying to educate them about it before they have a reason to be defensive(ie. as teenagers) is an uphill battle, because they don't have the real world experiences that make financial  meaningful.Employers happy about employees not asking for raises because 'it'd bump me into the next bracket!' are also a factor, probably.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:41
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I'd try to set a friend straight or maybe even some random person in a social setting, but I'm not going to open that box of worms at work.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:44
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I've had people at work, including people who rent, get legitimately mad at me for expressing the idea that buying a house is probably a good idea long-term, but renting is not always throwing your money away.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:50
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Splish posted:yeah I'm not going to jump into a conversation I wasn't a part of to correct someone thirty years older than me about something a simple google search could reveal. In an ideal world people would be open to education about better finances, in the real world people get defensive and think you're just trying to make them look stupid. You can say it in a nice way, like "I thought that too, but then I looked it up and it turns out you only pay the higher rate on your earnings over the limit." But if you were eavesdropping strangers, that wouldn't make sense.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:50
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Speaking as a horrible pedant in real life, there is never a good time to be a pedant. If you could start your sentence with, "Actually..." just don't say it.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:52
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Hoodwinker posted:Speaking as a horrible pedant in real life, there is never a good time to be a pedant. It's true. I thought that there was no way people wouldn't appreciate knowing that they could be saving several hundred dollars a year by doing nothing, but they would rather insist that they are carrying a balance on their credit cards to help them build credit to buy a house. Eventually, you just have to learn to accept that getting coworkers angry at you for trying to correct them isn't worth it. If you are not financially tied to them, you just lean back and post their conversations in the BWM thread to gain a fleeting moment of smug superiority.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:55
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Hoodwinker posted:Speaking as a horrible pedant in real life, there is never a good time to be a pedant. If you could start your sentence with, "Actually..." just don't say it.  But really, people don't like feeling condescended to even if you're right. Learning to pick your battles is GWL.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:58
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Haifisch posted:Um, actually, there are times it's appropriate to go "actually...".
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Jun 15, 2017 22:02
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I've had this conversation many times with friends and family, and to be fair it's not the clearest thing in the world until you learn how it works. Then everyone has the same "aha" moment. Until then, plenty of people think that moving from, say, the 28% bracket to the 33% bracket means every dollar of their income is now taxed at 33%. It is a pretty easy mistake to make especially if their returns are complicated. A good accountant or tax program should list the effective tax rate you paid, which should make it pretty obvious how marginal rates work.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:04
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Splish posted:Overheard a coworker this morning say that she and her husband make about $120,000 a year and it's good that they don't make more because then they would be in the 33% tax bracket and get screwed over. Uhh the 33% bracket starts at $191k for single and $233k married. She's got more than just terminology confused.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:09
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If they each make about $120K, the math is basically right.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:14
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This probably doesn't count as a humblebrag because holy poo poo I got a large raise at my last job and it killed us in taxes. As in, I already had zero deductions and I ended up with a 6 digit tax bill because we moved up brackets. Marginal tax rates, sure. But if you get caught off guard and don't withhold enough the IRS eats your loving rear end in extra fees. So that does happen. If an older person is talking about that then they probably lived through the inflationary 80's and watched any pay raised get slaughtered by the combination of higher prices and more taxes. It just takes one year like I had to make you forever paranoid. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 15, 2017 22:27
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Haifisch posted:Um, actually, there are times it's appropriate to go "actually...". "You shouldn't waste your money on Starbucks every morning" is condescending. Informing people about marginal tax rates if they genuinely don't understand how tax brackets work, is not condescending. Arguing with them about the government if they don't believe you is condescending.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:28
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Krispy Kareem posted:This probably doesn't count as a humblebrag because holy poo poo I got a large raise at my last job and it killed us in taxes. As in, I already had zero deductions and I ended up with a 6 digit tax bill because we moved up brackets. Marginal tax rates, sure. But if you get caught off guard and don't withhold enough the IRS eats your loving rear end in extra fees. That sounds like your payroll department hosed up? idgi
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Jun 15, 2017 22:29
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Krispy Kareem posted:This probably doesn't count as a humblebrag because holy poo poo I got a large raise at my last job and it killed us in taxes. As in, I already had zero deductions and I ended up with a 6 digit tax bill because we moved up brackets. Marginal tax rates, sure. But if you get caught off guard and don't withhold enough the IRS eats your loving rear end in extra fees. A large part of this is what bullshit garbage the US tax system is compared to any other country. Unless you're running your own business, most taxable activity (or credit / deduction eligible activity) is already being reported to the IRS. They can and should be setting your withholding for you, and then just sending you a pre-filled return saying "does this look right"?
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Jun 15, 2017 22:30
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BarbarianElephant posted:"You shouldn't waste your money on Starbucks every morning" is condescending.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:36
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Krispy Kareem posted:This probably doesn't count as a humblebrag because holy poo poo I got a large raise at my last job and it killed us in taxes. As in, I already had zero deductions and I ended up with a 6 digit tax bill because we moved up brackets. Marginal tax rates, sure. But if you get caught off guard and don't withhold enough the IRS eats your loving rear end in extra fees. What kind of raise did you get where you ended up with a surprise *6 digit* tax bill in April? Not saying it didn't happen, but I only see that when some spectacular bonus/profit-share roles through, or RSUs vest or whatever. And even in those cases (especially RSUs) you can still plan for them. Even if you did some super-jump - like from the 15% to the 33% bracket (which, overall, would be an amazing problem to have) ...6 figures? Did you mean 5 figures?
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Jun 15, 2017 22:43
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guys this isn't a humblebrag but this one time when I got a $2M raise I had a big tax bill! yowzers!
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Jun 15, 2017 22:48
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Twerk from Home posted:A large part of this is what bullshit garbage the US tax system is compared to any other country. Unless you're running your own business, most taxable activity (or credit / deduction eligible activity) is already being reported to the IRS. They can and should be setting your withholding for you, and then just sending you a pre-filled return saying "does this look right"? http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=521132960 Tried that in California. Got shut down by lobbying from the tax preparing industry, who have a vested interest in making taxes more difficult for individuals so that they will hire preparers. And also by Republicans who took the "no tax increase" pledge, who decided that the more time and money people spent preparing their taxes, the madder they'd be about their taxes and the more conscious they'd be about where the money goes. (DOUBTFUL)
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Jun 15, 2017 22:48
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lol your company did not gently caress up your withholding enough for you to get a six digit tax bill unless your net is like 3mil+ a year just stop
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Jun 15, 2017 22:48
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I feel a bird a-creepin. He is a-creepin.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:48
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The actual post is mundane(and ends with OP's mom getting a job), but: I'm 18 and the soul income of my family. Am I in trouble? 
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Jun 15, 2017 22:58
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Splish posted:Overheard a coworker this morning say that she and her husband make about $120,000 a year and it's good that they don't make more because then they would be in the 33% tax bracket and get screwed over. I've talked to 50 year-olds who still don't understand how tax brackets work. Many people apparently just put the numbers in and accept what comes out as fate or something. It's also really popular in the country to manufacture grievances against the government to explain one's problems.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:01
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canyoneer posted:Clean out the personal items before you sell your deceased granddad's house. A survivalist hoarde, and all they're finding is fiat currency? Better rent a metal detector, there is doubtless gold in them hills. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 23:05
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Pompous Rhombus posted:A survivalist hoarde, and all they're finding is fiat currency? Better rent a metal detector, there is doubtless gold in them hills. You jest, but they did find some tubes of silver coins. And several people actually did tell the OP to get a metal detector.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:14
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Noctone posted:You jest, but they did find some tubes of silver coins. Oh, I wasn't. I'm a veteren of the '08 Ron Paul threads...
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Jun 15, 2017 23:22
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Not really a derail in my opinion - since at the core, it is a BWM/BWL discussion - but I've never understood the survivalist mentality when it comes to precious metals/stones. In the Zombie apocalypse (or an epidemic right out of The Stand, or the Day of Judgement, or whatever collapse of the rule of law fantasy fuels their fevered dreams) where, exactly, does having a stash of gold/silver/whatever benefit you? You want to talk about that in terms of a normal, maybe slightly paranoid, diversification strategy for investments, ok, I can maybe see that, but when society collapses what makes these types think we're going to revert to pre-medieval bartering times where a gold coin has value? I don't get it. Probably a good thing.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:25
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Ixian posted:Not really a derail in my opinion - since at the core, it is a BWM/BWL discussion - but I've never understood the survivalist mentality when it comes to precious metals/stones. In practice, survivalist nuts are having all their poo poo stolen within a day of the apocalypse.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:30
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Haifisch posted:In theory, it's nice to have a compact store of value even if it doesn't have practical uses. At least I assume that's the logic they're running on. That's more or less the definition of a currency, though. Believing that, in a scenario where the whole world goes to poo poo and chaos reigns, everyone will just accept gold/silver/rubies/whatever-the-gently caress as currency is just as absurd as believing everyone will keep using dollars/euros/yuan.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:50
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Noctone posted:That's more or less the definition of a currency, though. Believing that, in a scenario where the whole world goes to poo poo and chaos reigns, everyone will just accept gold/silver/rubies/whatever-the-gently caress as currency is just as absurd as believing everyone will keep using dollars/euros/yuan. It's like asking why bitcoiners are always so sure mass cryptocurrency adoption is just around the corner. It isn't, but these people have bought into the ideology so hard they can't fathom it's not the natural state of the world.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:56
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Noctone posted:That's more or less the definition of a currency, though. Believing that, in a scenario where the whole world goes to poo poo and chaos reigns, everyone will just accept gold/silver/rubies/whatever-the-gently caress as currency is just as absurd as believing everyone will keep using dollars/euros/yuan. Perhaps they heard about German hyperinflation in the '20s and have a paranoid fear that the same could happen in their nation?
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Jun 16, 2017 01:01
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Ixian posted:What kind of raise did you get where you ended up with a surprise *6 digit* tax bill in April? Not saying it didn't happen, but I only see that when some spectacular bonus/profit-share roles through, or RSUs vest or whatever. And even in those cases (especially RSUs) you can still plan for them. I was a W-2 contractor and my cost center was a general data center fund. I guess my boss had some extra money left over and knew my contract wouldn't keep me there much longer. So it was an unusually large raise that I only had for 18 months and which I spent the last 8 of those putting away an extra $1k a month on my W-4 to avoid owing another massive tax bill. The point being raises can gently caress you over tax-wise. It won't happen to most people, but unless you know how much their household income is you can't tell how one raise will impact their bracket. And yes. I meant 5 figures. That was my bad. I'm visiting a place where I can buy beer by the half gallon and that apparently has a detrimental effect on my math. Krispy Wafer fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 01:23
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It was my understanding that typically withholding would be calculated assuming that you received the current pay period's payment through the whole year, so a raise tends to lead to over withholding...
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Jun 16, 2017 01:40
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Also, a story where your "problem" is you made so much money that you had to pay more taxes than you thought is not really a BWM story.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Also, a story where your "problem" is you made so much money that you had to pay more taxes than you thought is not really a BWM story. It was a counterpoint to the idea that raises can't drastically increase your tax burden. Yes, my withholding increased, but it knocked our household income to a new bracket and we got underpayment penalties on top of money owed. Plus we had a double whammy when we adjusted withholding to avoid the same problem the following year. If I'm ever in that same situation I'll know to boost my W-4 withholdings independent of my deductions. It's stupid of people to decline raises because of taxes, but all it takes is this happening one year to make you forever paranoid of it happening again.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:55
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Shut up, dummies. Would a fairly small loan (~$5000) be a good alternative to getting minimum wage job while in college? quote:I'm currently going into my junior year of college as an Electrical/Computer Engineering major. After the money that my parents give me to pay for some of my education along with the money I've saved for college, my remaining expenses end up running somewhere around $2500 per year. I was unable to find any work related to my major over this summer and I really don't have much interest in working a minimum wage job during what will probably be my last extended free time until retirement. Since I still need a few thousand dollars, I was thinking a good option might be to take out a fairly small loan to cover my expenses until I graduate. Holy poo poo his reply when he was told to just get a loving job: quote:Why should I do things I don't enjoy if it's unnecessary? I'm aware that having a job is part of being an adult, but I don't see why I shouldn't enjoy this summer. I'll have an internship next summer and I'll work for the rest of my life after that. Why spend my last summer doing something to make $10 when I'll be making many times that after graduation and won't have a lot of trouble paying it off? In addition, I have been mowing lawns as you suggest. I'm just not making anywhere near enough and options are more limited than you might expect near me. I live in the middle of nowhere, but I've been mowing all three lawns within a reasonable distance. Edit: Got it before the inevitable meltdown deletion. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 01:57
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I mean, lacking an internship the summer after his junior year isn't great, but I assume STEM kids have employment of some kind thrown at them upon graduation, even if it's only .5 X what he thinks it will be and probably as an unengaging contract role, but I assume he would be able to pay it off if he doesn't turn up his nose at something he things is beneath him. Which is to say he'll be back in 12 months as another story of BWM.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:04
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crazypeltast52 posted:if he doesn't turn up his nose at something he things is beneath him OP posted:Why should I do things I don't enjoy if it's unnecessary? He's probably hosed in the long run anyway if he'd rather take on debt than be slightly unhappy.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:14
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He's not completely off base with his wishes, hopes, and dreams, right up to the point where he thinks funding them with a $5k loan is a good idea. Take a summer off before "real life" starts? Sure, why the gently caress not...wait, you can't afford it? Well guess what, real life started early for you. My slow decline into cranky old-manhood is accelerating I guess.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:15
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