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Nolgthorn posted:I think JS is the best language there is, there I said it. Does this include C# because wtf I want whatever you've been smoking.
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Jun 15, 2017 01:28
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I'm trying to understand the various options for transpiling TypeScript. I'm not sure which is the best approach for my app. For medium-large apps do people tend to transpile down to a single file, or should I be using a bunch of files with a client-side module loader? I assume the way to go is to transpile to separate files and use something like SystemJS to load the modules dynamically, does this sound right?
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Jun 15, 2017 01:39
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:I'm trying to understand the various options for transpiling TypeScript. I'm not sure which is the best approach for my app. For medium-large apps do people tend to transpile down to a single file, or should I be using a bunch of files with a client-side module loader? I assume the way to go is to transpile to separate files and use something like SystemJS to load the modules dynamically, does this sound right? The one giant TS file run through webpack is the standard and will perform better except in cases where you have so much goddamn javascript that lazy loading is beneficial and you have a requirement to have fast page loads(that's usually around the dozens of megs point.) And honestly the one time I had that problem, I rolled my own loader because it would've taken longer to figure out how to use System.js than to write it from scratch. Bruegels Fuckbooks fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 02:29
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SystemJS seems cool, but JSPM really fizzled out and soured a lot of people on it. Just roll a single js file (or two if you want to separate your vendor poo poo). Websites shouldn't be large enough where you need to worry about dynamically loading things client-side. Even HTTP/2 doesn't tip the scale in favor of that flow. Video games, apps that do heavy lifting like displaying geojson shapefiles, etc. are the exception.
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Jun 15, 2017 04:19
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:Does this include C# because wtf I want whatever you've been smoking. I got a dime bag of TypeScript, it's JavaScript's C#
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Jun 15, 2017 19:40
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Nolgthorn posted:I got a dime bag of TypeScript, it's JavaScript's C# Well... C# without the excellent .NET Framework libraries.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:09
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Skandranon posted:Well... C# without the excellent .NET Framework libraries. http://tjanczuk.github.io/edge/#/
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Jun 15, 2017 20:15
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Jun 15, 2017 21:53
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What is C# typically used for? Is it microsoft stack stuff? Web dev? I've never touched it but everyone speaks so highly of it.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:48
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prom candy posted:What is C# typically used for? Is it microsoft stack stuff? Web dev? I've never touched it but everyone speaks so highly of it. Microsoft backend and application. Plus lots of independent game devs, since that's what Unity uses.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:59
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prom candy posted:What is C# typically used for? Is it microsoft stack stuff? Web dev? I've never touched it but everyone speaks so highly of it. From what little I've messed with it I really like C# but I really almost never see it in job descriptions even if you include .NET. Has MS just failed again? I don't understand why a good rear end thing like C# withers on the vine for modern web dev but apparently RoR is still everywhere at least by my googling. Maybe it's just a kind of generational problem and all the cool teenagers making Unity games will make C# the poo poo in 5 years. One can hope anyway..
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Jun 16, 2017 04:10
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If you want to work in an enterprise-friendly, stable, performant, robust language with a deep standard library and a large community - your options are pretty much Java or C#. It gets a lot of use making Windows applications, but it really shines (IMO) when making websites, APIs, and services (ie. asp.net MVC) It benefited from being able to learn from Java's mistakes, and has had some very smart language designers working on it for 15+ years. Most of the language and .NET framework are there to make your life easier and its uncommon to come across things that feel poorly implemented. LINQ was a great way of easing people into functional programming provided you didn't use the lovely SQL syntax, it's one of the only languages I know that has good built-in datetime/timezone functionality, and TPL introduced async/await to many developers over 5 years ago when most everything else was still handrolling state management. Visual Studio is hands down the best IDE I've ever used, especially if you add the Resharper plugin. Its major downsides were being tied to IIS for a server and Windows Server for an OS - both of which are no longer the case. edit: Not seeing it in job descriptions might be a location thing. Minnesota is very heavy on C#/.NET, Groovy, and React. Kotlin probably within the next year, as everyone that isn't .NET seems to be working in Kotlin or has plans to. RoR and even Node to some degree are essentially dead here. Small businesses and startups might not like it because Windows machines, MSDN licenses, etc. It's fairly healthy and in demand if you look at the indicators like Stack Overflow questions. luchadornado fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 04:12
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Additionally, asp.net mvc is pretty cool.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:19
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Dogcow posted:From what little I've messed with it I really like C# but I really almost never see it in job descriptions even if you include .NET. Has MS just failed again? I don't understand why a good rear end thing like C# withers on the vine for modern web dev but apparently RoR is still everywhere at least by my googling. ASP .net MVC is leagues better than dealing with RoR/node/django. RoR/php/node etc. got popular because those projects are free, open source software, and run on linux, and people gravitate towards free (the alternative being paying money for a windows server license and running on IIS, which costs money and sucks, and that was after the cost of the visual studio licenses, etc). MS is realizing this - ASP.net MVC and .Net Core went open source, and the introduction of OWIN and .NET core decouples ASP.NET from IIS and allows deployment to other platforms. Now knowing this, would I go out and base a new project on .Net Core? Probably not, it's relatively new and I suspect somewhat immature - but it might be good in the future.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:57
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:ASP .net MVC is leagues better than dealing with RoR/node/django. RoR/php/node etc. got popular because those projects are free, open source software, and run on linux, and people gravitate towards free (the alternative being paying money for a windows server license .. Do people care about that? for me is the ability to google any problem and find solutions. With closed source projects you get less hits on the google searchs.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:49
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Dogcow posted:From what little I've messed with it I really like C# but I really almost never see it in job descriptions even if you include .NET. Has MS just failed again? I don't understand why a good rear end thing like C# withers on the vine for modern web dev but apparently RoR is still everywhere at least by my googling. Here in the Netherlands 95% of programming jobs are asking for C#, Java or PHP, with PHP a distant third. There are a few jobs asking for Rails, Python seems to be mentioned mostly in ads for dev ops kinda jobs, and there are some jobs for C++ programmers in embedded software and such. But all those pale compared to the number of C#/Java jobs.
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Jun 16, 2017 08:21
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Tei posted:Do people care about that? for me is the ability to google any problem and find solutions. With closed source projects you get less hits on the google searchs. Open source makes it easier to troubleshoot problems, but developing free software means that you don't have to worry about the whole microsoft eco-system, with its 1.2k a year per developer MSDN Visual Studio Pro subscriptions (enterprise is 6k a year), and then come deployment, a lot of hosting companies didn't want to have to deal with buying thousands of windows server licenses or having to make sure everything is licensed so microsoft doesn't sue you. Medium-sized microsoft development shops might be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to microsoft on msdn alone. If you're one developer or doing something non-commercially, or if you just have one windows server, the cost difference is completely negligible.
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Jun 16, 2017 12:20
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Dogcow posted:From what little I've messed with it I really like C# but I really almost never see it in job descriptions even if you include .NET. Has MS just failed again? Kekekela fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 12:28
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I did C# dev for 11 years. Pretty much from .NET 1.0 on. Echoing what everyone has already said - it's a really good, really well thought out language. I always referred to it as "Java without the SUCK". You can tell they looked at Java's big pain points and minimized them as much as possible in C#. The language is well designed, and Visual Studio is unmatched as an IDE, in my opinion. I am super thankful for VS Code since I have moved to primarily Javascript dev, since it has some of that Visual Studio flava. Moving from Java to C# is basically like jumping from one floating island to another: it's initially a lateral move, with a lot of familiar concepts, but as soon as you land on the new one, the previous one falls out of the sky, and the new one shoots into the stratosphere.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:12
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:Open source makes it easier to troubleshoot problems, but developing free software means that you don't have to worry about the whole microsoft eco-system, with its 1.2k a year per developer MSDN Visual Studio Pro subscriptions (enterprise is 6k a year), and then come deployment, a lot of hosting companies didn't want to have to deal with buying thousands of windows server licenses or having to make sure everything is licensed so microsoft doesn't sue you. Medium-sized microsoft development shops might be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to microsoft on msdn alone. If you're one developer or doing something non-commercially, or if you just have one windows server, the cost difference is completely negligible. You know .NET is open source right? You don’t have to host on Windows Servers (.NET core is cross-platform, Mono too) either. And you can use other tools to write .NET code (VSCode) besides Visual Studio.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:17
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The Fool posted:Additionally, asp.net mvc is pretty cool. This 100 times. You can take so many different approaches to the MVC side of things within the .NET MVC framework. You can render server side like php only better because you can set it up to handle all the databindings for you very easily. You can render client side by using your favourite front-end JS framework and have it pull the data from the API you've created. There's a really well developed ecosystem of libraries that allow you to extend the functionality of what you're doing. Take all of this from someone who only started doing web-dev about a year and a half ago and really found the JS frameworks very obtuse and hard to grasp, C# is a dream. You can even get ASP.NET MVC to do your laundry for you*. * this is not a guaranteed function
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Jun 16, 2017 13:23
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Besides parts of it being open source now, the rest of it is extremely well documented and blogged about, and I've really only had problems with .NET internals two times. One time we were doing some higher performing stuff and it kept throwing things in a non-desirable generation of memory so we were having GC problems. It took a day or two to force it into the correct portion of allocated memory. The other time was the 3.0.0.0 > 3.0.0.1 security hotfix kerfuffle and having issues with assembly binding redirects, but that was probably more of an issue because of some legacy stuff we were doing. At my last job we shipped the org's new billing platform (just a single payment type) and many pages of a site that saw thousands of concurrent requests/second on .NET Core RC1. I went to production twice with the first release candidate, and wouldn't have any qualms about shipping something now 1+ years later. Core was more production ready as an RC than many other stacks. Compare the evolution of .NET webforms/WCF > MVC/WebAPI > MVC to something like Express/Koa in the Node.js ecosystem. It's great that I can monkeypatch Express, switch components of it out, and submit PRs, but it was even better to just have MVC work awesomely and not have to think about any of that customization or see the drama (see: TJ Holowaychuk, selling the project, IBM, Strongloop, Doug Wilson's meltdown, etc.).
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Jun 16, 2017 13:46
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:Open source makes it easier to troubleshoot problems, but developing free software means that you don't have to worry about the whole microsoft eco-system, with its 1.2k a year per developer MSDN Visual Studio Pro subscriptions (enterprise is 6k a year), and then come deployment, a lot of hosting companies didn't want to have to deal with buying thousands of windows server licenses or having to make sure everything is licensed so microsoft doesn't sue you. Medium-sized microsoft development shops might be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to microsoft on msdn alone. If you're one developer or doing something non-commercially, or if you just have one windows server, the cost difference is completely negligible. It's $540/yr and $3k/yr, respectively according to MSDN right now. Also they have a small team offering that's just through VS online. I've been using 2017 Pro for ~a month without having an MSDN account or entering a key. Just clicked a download link on our team's dashboard.
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Jun 16, 2017 14:47
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Yesterday I crossed a strange animal, it attacked me and I was byten. And now I want to improve forum software. I have this feeling forum software is not evolving and theres a lot of room to explore better ways to make forum software. I have already made a number of strange experiments that can possible destroy your browser, perhaps summon a old god. (I will provide the url if somebody is interested) But theres one thing I have not tried yet, because I am a lazy person and is the one experiment that require a bit of hard work. I feel forums are not social enough. They kind of imitate the design and features of email software apps like Eudora Light for the Apple II. Thats the kind of limitations that forum software impose to itself. There has to be a better way to build forum software. I have already tried discourse, and is a amazing piece of software. Seriusly, it has many surprises of the amazing things it does. But is not quite a step in the right direction. Or is 3 steps in the right direction and 1 in the wrong one. Of course I know Xenforo and phpBB and others. I know vbulleting, I am using it just now. This one do right a number of things that discourse do worse, but they are ancient software, they work like how software was made in 2001. Can we make forum software better without making it worse?
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Jun 16, 2017 15:40
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Tei posted:Can we make forum software better without making it worse? If you don't like discourse you're beyond saving.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:15
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Tivac posted:If you don't like discourse you're beyond saving. I don't dislike it. But I don't like some of the things it does, and I don't think ever try some things.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:19
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Tei posted:I don't dislike it. But I don't like some of the things it does, and I don't think ever try some things. What doesn't it do that you want it to, be specific
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Jun 16, 2017 16:31
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Isn't Discourse more chat focused than forum focused? As in, it's an IRC-but-better rather than a mailing-list-but-better.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:32
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Dogcow posted:From what little I've messed with it I really like C# but I really almost never see it in job descriptions even if you include .NET. Has MS just failed again? This is crazy talk. I'm a full time C# dev and there's incredible demand right now and it's very lucrative if you're good at it. C# is very very common in enterprise level stuff.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:34
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Munkeymon posted:Isn't Discourse more chat focused than forum focused? As in, it's an IRC-but-better rather than a mailing-list-but-better. Maybe I am confusing it with other one. They all start with dis*. I think. a hot gujju bhabhi posted:This is crazy talk. I'm a full time C# dev and there's incredible demand right now and it's very lucrative if you're good at it. C# is very very common in enterprise level stuff. Many of my friends work on the .NET/Java side. Is very popular for banks and big companies. The languages/stacks that are very popular probably are area dependent, some stack dominating a area, but almost not present in other city. Tei fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 16:38
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Munkeymon posted:Isn't Discourse more chat focused than forum focused? As in, it's an IRC-but-better rather than a mailing-list-but-better. Discord is the one you're thinking of.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:43
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:This is crazy talk. I'm a full time C# dev and there's incredible demand right now and it's very lucrative if you're good at it. C# is very very common in enterprise level stuff. Yeah I realize now why I'm not seeing it in ads much: I'm looking at remote jobs and most/a lot of them are dumb startups. I didn't even think of it but that's obviously why.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:24
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I "quit" C# mainly because of how tied to IT Consultancy the vacancies at the time were, and how much I wanted to distance myself from that environment. What I recall from those days was reading Jon Skeet's book and taking his word as the Gospel, oh and crying whenever someone asked me to do maintenance on windows forms. Eventually, I've come around to appreciating it more than I did at the time, part in due to the tech community I was interacting with, gently caress whoever complained about MS Visual Studio being a resource hog and then advise me to use jetbrains IDE.
Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 17:56
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Tei posted:There has to be a better way to build forum software. Challenge all your assumptions. Does there have to be a better way? What value is there in making a better forum? Are they really not social enough? Does anyone else feel the same way you do? Forums are bloated and a PITA to run, while not necessarily providing a "better" discussion format. My most productive conversations have happened on IRC, Slack, and Hacker News as an anecdote. Start with the actual user requirements and work from there - I'm guessing any solution birthed out of that looks different than the way forums have evolved.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:21
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Helicity posted:Forums are bloated and a PITA to run, while not necessarily providing a "better" discussion format. My most productive conversations have happened on IRC, Slack, and Hacker News as an anecdote. Start with the actual user requirements and work from there - I'm guessing any solution birthed out of that looks different than the way forums have evolved. "star with the actual user requirements" don't seems a good idea in this context. Users are not revolutionary, users are incrementalist. If theres a button they like in the application, they want two. the fisher dont' ask the fish how to fish. Plus, homer simpson dream car  Anyway this is a forum, and all of you are forum users. I can't not avoid talking with forum users, because I care a great deal about forums.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:37
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Yeah, I agree that user requirements is not how you create new experiences. Of course, not asking user requirements will lead you to failure way more often, but its also how new cool poo poo comes about.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:43
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Has there been any significant attempts on improving things since Google Wave or Vanilla? The same forum but slightly less annoying is what many would probably be happy with but that doesn't really exist either.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:46
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MrMoo posted:Has there been any significant attempts on improving things since Google Wave or Vanilla? Yes. Guys that made StackOverflow made Discourse: https://www.discourse.org/ It radical in places where being radical is a bad idea, and in places that work amazing. The base tech is also really cool. It allow things like change people CSS on the fly (withouth reloading the page).
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Jun 16, 2017 18:50
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Process-heavy waterfall-type design documents aren't the be-all end-all of requirements. User requirements are the need. Your POs/PMs/line managers/whatever that taught you there's more to requirements gathering are filling your head with lies. You either build on an existing need (iterative improvement) or tell the users they need something new (innovate). The people that are traditionally innovators are constantly challenging assumptions about people's needs. Your posts feel extremely stream-of-consciousness - I'd highly recommend organizing your thoughts and focusing on the actual problem you're trying to solve. Because "make forums better" sounds iterative to me, and doesn't excite me in any way. luchadornado fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 00:46
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Question regarding all this C# talk: How open are the companies that normally use C# to taking on developers without a CS degree? For some reason, I've always mentally classified any job that requires heavy Java/C# work to always require a degree, but I have no idea if this actually has anything to do with reality itself. I only hear good things, and a similar discussion to this one popped up in the forum a few weeks ago, so I'm curious, but also wondering if it's a viable path for my non-CS-degree-having self.
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