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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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they're not trying to throw anything, May is just aware she's a caretaker at absolute best right now. if I were her I'd skip being shouted at too-can't get any worse
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Jun 16, 2017 14:56
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It's really cool that they're trying to shove people who have lost their homes out of the borough with the most unoccupied homes in the country.
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Jun 16, 2017 14:56
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deletebeepbeepbeep posted:https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jun/16/jeremy-corbyn-pyramid-stage-glastonbury-festival-2017 In an address today aimed squarely at middle England, the Labour leader was quoted as saying 'I do two things: I rap and gently caress.'
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Jun 16, 2017 14:56
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communism bitch posted:I feel like Liz Kendall really "gets" rebellious young people.
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Jun 16, 2017 14:57
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Tesseraction posted:Fair warning it has Laura Perrins on it, someone who was trending on Twitter before QT even aired with Irish people (she's from the RoI) apologising in advance and saying she doesn't represent the Irish people. I only watched the first question and then turned it off because QT remains unbearable thanks to the audience being petit-fascists, but my god she was terrible.
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Jun 16, 2017 14:57
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UrbicaMortis posted:In an address today aimed squarely at middle England, the Labour leader was quoted as saying 'I do two things: I rap and gently caress.' On the next PMQ he's states he'll "flame your crew quicker then Trump fucks his youngest"
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Jun 16, 2017 14:59
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's really cool that they're trying to shove people who have lost their homes out of the borough with the most unoccupied homes in the country. It's all right, though, they've listened to* the public and have decided to let them stay in their own community. *been unable to ignore the destructive soundwave of indignation from
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Jun 16, 2017 15:00
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Baron Corbyn posted:if the police were told to crack down hard on the rioters would they though? I feel like rule number one for anyone intending to become a lovely authoritarian is to keep the fuzz happy and on-side and I don't think May has done a good job of that. If there's riots, the police will have no choice but to crack down on them. It's their job to maintain public order. And the last thing that needs to happen right now is goddamn riots.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:00
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CoolCab posted:On the next PMQ he's states he'll "flame your crew quicker then Trump fucks his youngest" At this point the assembly in that video would be an improvement on Parliament
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Jun 16, 2017 15:00
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forkboy84 posted:I only watched the first question and then turned it off because QT remains unbearable thanks to the audience being petit-fascists, but my god she was terrible. My favourite bit in it was her saying that May is her favourite politician and she strongly believes in her leadership. Sums her up, really.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:01
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Baron Corbyn posted:if the police were told to crack down hard on the rioters would they though? I feel like rule number one for anyone intending to become a lovely authoritarian is to keep the fuzz happy and on-side and I don't think May has done a good job of that. Most austerity countries didn't cut police salaries for that exact reason
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Jun 16, 2017 15:01
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CoolCab posted:they're not trying to throw anything, May is just aware she's a caretaker at absolute best right now. if I were her I'd skip being shouted at too-can't get any worse I can't see any way that the Tory party allows May to contest another election as leader, but I remain to be proven wrong as there seems to be an epidemic of stupidity amongst them right now.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:02
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Dance Officer posted:If there's riots, the police will have no choice but to crack down on them. It's their job to maintain public order. And the last thing that needs to happen right now is goddamn riots. They would. This is not the kind of V for Vendetta insurrection where the soldiers join the people. Rioting would be a terrible outcome and allow the (up to now mostly sympathetic) shitbucket corners of the UK press to run variant stories of "poors run riot, gently caress 'em rah rah property damage".
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Jun 16, 2017 15:04
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in montreal in 2014 the police, with anti austerity stickers on their riot shields, attacked anti austerity protesters. http://www.focaalblog.com/2015/07/13/david-cooney-the-montreal-student-protests/ the police.. they're not good, friends.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:04
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Dance Officer posted:If there's riots, the police will have no choice but to crack down on them. It's their job to maintain public order. And the last thing that needs to happen right now is goddamn riots. If there are riots I'm not entirely sure the police will be on the other side. I'm not saying they will join in but I doubt they will be trying very hard to stop it provided the rioters show a few brain cells and don't attack them.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:05
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Baron Corbyn posted:uhh wtf UKMT is incredibly loving fast at present but the RUC did this in the 80s
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Jun 16, 2017 15:05
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Probably been posted before but I went to youtube to watch question time and saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deWVJvQt49I  Thing I liked most is that he rolled the window all the way down.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:06
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Junior G-man posted:They would. This is not the kind of V for Vendetta insurrection where the soldiers join the people. Rioting would be a terrible outcome and allow the (up to now mostly sympathetic) shitbucket corners of the UK press to run variant stories of "poors run riot, gently caress 'em rah rah property damage". they should go to the papers head offices and riot inside imo
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Jun 16, 2017 15:08
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https://twitter.com/PSbook/status/875715479352074240 http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...t-a3566796.html quote:Shortly before the general election was called, Sir Lynton Crosby sat down to write a highly confidential memo for Theresa May’s inner circle. It boiled down to a simple piece of advice: “Don’t do it.” 
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Jun 16, 2017 15:10
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Is that actually true or Crosby trying to recover his reputation do you think?
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Jun 16, 2017 15:11
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My guess is the latter. They are all shovelling bullshit right now to try and save their destroyed careers. https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/875708106935808000
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Jun 16, 2017 15:14
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Definitely Crosby desperately trying to save face. This disastrous election campaign was 100% the brainchild and responsibility of these two convenient scapegoats and no other senior Tory figure had any input.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:15
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Baron Corbyn posted:Is that actually true or Crosby trying to recover his reputation do you think? I think it's partially true - Crosby is evil but he's not a complete idiot, and in particular his preference for elections is to back an underdog story. May called the election at her peak popularity and even the dumbest kid has to know that what goes up must come down eventually, and Corbyn was at his deepest trough of unpopularity. He had nothing to lose from an election campaign and May had everything to.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:15
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Corbyn is introducing Run the Jewels at Glastonbury, which I thought was a Daily Mash headline but is apparently true : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUC2EQvdzmY Will Brexit negotiations go better or worse than in this video?
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Jun 16, 2017 15:16
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https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/875710145845710848 https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/875711581551816704 I... uh......
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Jun 16, 2017 15:19
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KCTMO are, of course, the people responsible for Grenfell Tower.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:19
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Glad KCTMO have got their priorities in order.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:22
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learnincurve posted:If there are riots I'm not entirely sure the police will be on the other side. I'm not saying they will join in but I doubt they will be trying very hard to stop it provided the rioters show a few brain cells and don't attack them. I don't doubt for a second most officers are on the side of the rioters. But they will still put it down, because that's their job. EDIT: used the wrong word, sorry. Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 15:23
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Tesseraction posted:https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/875710145845710848 https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/875711581551816704 "What? People died? Yeah, whatever—no, shut up a second—kids are kicking a loving ball! Where they shouldn't be! FLOG THE LITTLE FUCKERS" Some people are astonishingly inhumane. I didn't realise that finally removing my stupid newbie av would erase the jam man tag, can I have it back please (yes I am still a stupid newbie, clearly)
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Jun 16, 2017 15:23
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Who the gently caress is managing communications at the borough council and KCTMO? Holy balls.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:25
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UrbicaMortis posted:In an address today aimed squarely at middle England, the Labour leader was quoted as saying 'I do two things: I rap and gently caress.' Jeremy Corbyn: I slap and I suck clits, I gently caress in my church shoes.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:25
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Tesseraction posted:Liz Kendall did say she liked NWA right? Clearly May is triangulating. What wing of authoritarian are the Ns?
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Jun 16, 2017 15:26
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communism bitch posted:I've been meaning to call you out for a while, and I guess now is as good a time as any. In this particular case it's because I was in the middle of eating my lunch and phone posting. So for you and the others who want a bit more detail, here we go. (TLDR - DSMA notices, as they are now called, are general advisory notices to editors that carry exactly zero legal weight, and take months to issue. You can read all of them here: http://www.dsma.uk/danotices/index.htm) D-Notices don't actually exist. Well they sort of do, but the popular perception of them as a magic wand the Government can use to make inconvenient facts disappear is about as wrong as it can get. The origin of the D-Notice is in the Crimean War - as the first major foreign war fought by Britain in the age of the telegraph and the mass press, stories about battles were appearing in the London papers quicker than they were appearing on the desks of the War Ministry. There were (probably apocryphal) tales of the Russian Embassy cabling the front page of The Times direct to their commanders in the field so they'd know exactly where the British forces were and what they were up to. The editors of the papers were gently reminded that giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war was still a treasonable offence and that maybe they should quickly run stories about active warzones past the Government before publishing them. This informal system continued for over half a century until those damned lefties started printing their own papers at the turn of the century - the Manchester Guardian reporting on the atrocities of the Boer War in particular rankled against the establishment, but it was considered politically suicidal to implement mandatory censorship at the time. However, ten years later with WWI brewing and the country in rather more jingoistic mood the first tentative steps were taken towards it, and a statutory (but still voluntary!) system was set up whereby the Press Association would meet with the War Office and agree a number of general subjects that should not be published in the press - these were dispositions and movements of troops and materiel, stocks and movements of ammunition and strategic resources, and future plans of the above. Again, this was a voluntary code of conduct for Fleet Street, and there were no penalties for breaching any of these (although of course doing so might well leave you open to prosecution under a number of laws). WWI bought the highly controversial Defence Of The Realm Act which made it a specific offence to publish any material likely to be of use to an enemy or to "cause conflict between the military and the civilian populace" - i.e. anything that might lead people to think that the war was being run by a bunch of loving idiots. It also instituted formal press censorship in the UK for the first time - any story regarding the war (and in that first industrial war, *all* stories ultimately were about the war) had to be approved by the War Office prior to publication. It also banned almost all trade union activities and, most unforgivably of all, introduced licensing hours. The bastards. The end of the war meant the end of the DORA restrictions and a return to the older voluntary regime, albeit loosened somewhat. However they also added a proviso that in certain circumstances the Government could request (not demand) that certain stories not covered by those general military requirements not be reported. World War 2 saw the return of DORA albeit with slightly looser restrictions on reporting (in particular it was no longer an offence to suggest the war wasn't being fought well, something that probably lost Chamberlain his job) and the first things actually called D-Notices - these were specific notices about civilian stories that might be of aid to the enemy, for example the various strikes in the mines and the docks in the early stages of the war. These did actually have legislative might behind them - breaking one could land you in a military prison for an indeterminate period. The end of the war again meant the end of DORA (although it lives on in spirit with the DRAs, but that's for another post) but the D-Notice lived on in name - except instead of a "Defence Notice" it was now a "Disclosure Notice", a reminder that discussion of certain subjects may be against the law. They would be issued on a case-by-case basis, as well as having several standing ones (again, mostly about military matters). This system fell apart in the sixties (and was the time that D-Notices became a matter of general public knowledge) because Harold Wilson accused the Express of breaking them in it's reporting of a story, and then attempted to get the D-Notice Committee (composed of the editors of most of the national papers and a couple of Government officials) to accept a new D-Notice banning the Express from publishing anything else about the subject. They told him to get hosed, and the Committee was dissolved, and the Express continued to report on the story. The above is the nearest the D-Notice ever came to being the magic gag that people believe it to be, by the way, and I think it's very noticeable that the moment it was attempted to be used that way not only did it result in the story getting Streisand-ed to hell and back it led to the downfall of the entire system. This led to a return to the status quo ante of 1911(!) - four standing DA (Defence Advisory) Notices issued by the Cabinet Office asking editors not to publish stories on certain subjects without consulting with the Government first. These have remained boradly unchanged ever since, although they now in our fabulous post-9/11 world been renamed Defence and Security Media Advisories. Notice that word advisory there. That's all they are - advisory notices, saying that (for example) reporting on an ongoing police investigation may be in breach of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act and may prejudice a future trial, or that publishing the nuclear codes on the front page might be frowned upon. A fifth one about the home addresses of serving and ex members of the police and military was bought in towards the tail end of the Troubles. DSMA Notices do not (indeed cannot) possibly apply to things which are a matter of public record or of overriding public interest. Hell even the Official Secrets Act - a law which is pretty loving scary in it's scope and reach, not to mention it's punishments - is routinely breached by journalists and editors, and the Government's record in getting successful prosecutions where there's a valid public interest is near-zero. They have absolutely zero legislative backing (beyond that of the actual underlying laws that govern the publication of sensitive material). This is the most important thing to emphasise. BREAKING A D(sma) NOTICE IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW. I shall now prove this by breaking DSMA Notice 4: quote:DSMA - Notice 04: Physical Property and Assets by saying that the Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland lives at Number 10, Downing Street, London SW1A 2AA. Come at me, GCHQ. On a slightly less-trivial matter, look at cases which have involved the large-scale disclosure of material that is safely covered by one of the DSMA notices - cases where prosecutions were actually sought because of the disclosure. Simplest three examples (in that they involve purely UK entities) are Duncan Cambpell and Zircon, Peter Wright, and Katherine Gun. All three were slam-dunk breaches of the Official Secrets Act. All were (unsuccessfully) prosecuted for their disclosures. None of them led to even attempted prosecutions of any of the media outlets which merrily published stories in knowing breach of the supposedly all-powerful D-Notices. So, to return to my original point. There has not been a D-Notice served on the final death toll for the following reasons: - D-Notices don't actually exist, and their modern equivalent are general advisory notices - They cannot be "issued" on single stories - They cannot be issued on matters of public record - Even where the underlying law that the advises on is broken, there is a very, very long judicial tradition of allowing the press to publish things where there is an overwhelming public interest. Or, to summarise, "D-Notices don't work that way". Now in the interests of full disclosure, there are a couple of other things that *might* be confused with (the public perception of) a D-Notice. There is a long tradition of not naming the victims in disasters until they have been formally named by the POlice (to avoid causing distress to the families who might not know). There is also a slightly newer tradition of not speculating on exact death tolls in large-scale criminal cases that dates back to the Shipman case. Finally there is the the actual DSMA Notice on not reporting on ongoing criminal investigations. These are why there's a reluctance in the press to start giving numbers out beyond the ones officially released. Right, now I've got all that off my chest, the reason I tend to poo poo-and-run on things I do actually know about is I've found that it makes absolutely no loving difference. People will either skim that or just not read it at all and by the next page will be merrily saying "YEAH THERES DEFINITELY A D NOTICE" and so what's the point? I will admit I'm a loving sucker for false-authority syndrome though, because a lot of the time I'll confuse what I reckon to be the case to be probably right, and then run smag-bang into someone who does actually know what they're talking about though. I try my best to avoid that where I can (by at least caveating it with a few "I think..." or similar weasel words, and unlike certain posters I could mention I at least have the good grace to admit it when I get things wrong and certainly not repeat the same bullshit two weeks later. Well mostly not, anyway. Happy? goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 15:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Happy? Very, and thanks for the interesting and informative post.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:35
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Corrode posted:Crows, like cats, are natural Tories Ernest Hemingway posted:“No animal has more liberty than the cat, but it buries the mess it makes. The cat is the best anarchist.” WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 15:36
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UrbicaMortis posted:In an address today aimed squarely at middle England, the Labour leader was quoted as saying 'I do two things: I rap and gently caress.' He's glad Reagan's dead.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:37
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communism bitch posted:Very, and thanks for the interesting and informative post. In fact what will make you even happier is I have misremembered a couple of details and a more accurate history of the D-Notice is in fact available on the DSMA website: http://www.dsma.uk/history/index.htm
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Jun 16, 2017 15:39
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Jeherrin posted:"What? People died? Yeah, whatever—no, shut up a second—kids are kicking a loving ball! Where they shouldn't be! FLOG THE LITTLE FUCKERS" I dunno, that looks more like "if you're part of any disturbance/make life difficult for anyone who might visit the area for any reason, you'll pay for it". The ball bit is the 'official' reason for sending the letter with the threats - it gives them deniability and sends a message that isn't an explicit challenge
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Jun 16, 2017 15:40
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Junior G-man posted:Who the gently caress is managing communications at the borough council and KCTMO? The managers at KCTMO will be too focused on avoiding arrest right now to consider things like letter delivery schedules and the people below them presumably have no autonomy to decide that sending out these particular letters at this particular time is a really bad idea.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:43
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Dan Didio posted:He's glad Reagan's dead. So say we all
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Jun 16, 2017 15:44
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