Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

If you're playing Op you really should go all in and play a transmuter. You keep all 8 rings in every form so you nicely avoid one of the major downsides of transmutations and end up relatively durable despite the lower base hp.

Gozag is also a good Op god because jewelry shops are reasonably common and have a very high chance of good returns so you can load up on protection/slaying rings.

# ? Jun 17, 2017 04:12

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# ? May 15, 2024 01:32

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Darox posted:

If you're playing Op you really should go all in and play a transmuter. You keep all 8 rings in every form so you nicely avoid one of the major downsides of transmutations and end up relatively durable despite the lower base hp.

Gozag is also a good Op god because jewelry shops are reasonably common and have a very high chance of good returns so you can load up on protection/slaying rings.

How do you handle skill training?

Completely unrelated, what are somethings to look for when trying to decide how to branch out from an En start (Vs specifically)?

# ? Jun 17, 2017 05:17

Big Mad Drongo: Nov 10, 2006

I am living the Chei Troll dream, statue form castable before Lair branches, which are Swamp and Spider. Long as I remember to slouch any Ghost Moths I'm 10 gallons of unstoppable in a five gallon dungeon.

I also haven't found any sources of rF or rC, so I'm probably gonna die to something really lame. At least I got to chump Tesla first.

EE is a great Troll start, getting Stone Arrow/Petrify up is easy and useful, and when an early Book of Earth drops you're already halfway to glory.

Big Mad Drongo fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jun 17, 2017

# ? Jun 17, 2017 05:17

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

vulturesrow posted:

Completely unrelated, what are somethings to look for when trying to decide how to branch out from an En start (Vs specifically)?

The important thing about En is that Hexes are an all or nothing thing. Either you can kill things with Hexes or you can't, so you need something to fall back on. This can be as simple as just upgrading armour and get a strong secondary weapon and becoming a melee guy that can occasionally stab someone (possibly with help from Usk or Oka), or picking up a second option that either kills things or helps you kill things, i.e. a source of strong allies (Kiku, Yred, Hep, Makh, Nem or Summoning spells) or a good nuke (Ru, Ely, Jiyva or direct damage spells).

# ? Jun 17, 2017 08:10

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Screw you Crawl: Maurice, Harold, Nergalle, Erolcha, and Fannar all on the same level in sight of the stairwell.

# ? Jun 17, 2017 08:24

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Scaramouche posted:

Screw you Crawl: Maurice, Harold, Nergalle, Erolcha, and Fannar all on the same level in sight of the stairwell.

Fire a wand of enslavement and pray?

# ? Jun 17, 2017 08:30

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Just find another stairwell. Nothing is worth that much danger.

# ? Jun 17, 2017 13:10

Twitch: Apr 15, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Is anyone else getting seriously hosed up out of depth monsters in this version? I just got destroyed on sight by a room full of lindwurms on dungeon 6, and had a couple games where dragons were showing up by lair 1. I don't think I've had a single win since .19.

# ? Jun 17, 2017 23:11

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Need some help on how to Ru. I understand the best way to approach sacrifices is to go big to max out piety quickly. The problem is I don't know which ones the "big ones" are. For example my current choice is between love, durability, and something that reduces EV. Help!

# ? Jun 17, 2017 23:40

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Twitch posted:

Is anyone else getting seriously hosed up out of depth monsters in this version? I just got destroyed on sight by a room full of lindwurms on dungeon 6, and had a couple games where dragons were showing up by lair 1. I don't think I've had a single win since .19.

situations like that sound like vaults. especially if you have a late lair i wouldn't be surprised to find a dragon on lair:1 (irritated as gently caress, sure)

it sucks, but also never underestimate the power of going downstairs and coming back to floors later

# ? Jun 18, 2017 00:09

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

vulturesrow posted:

Need some help on how to Ru. I understand the best way to approach sacrifices is to go big to max out piety quickly. The problem is I don't know which ones the "big ones" are. For example my current choice is between love, durability, and something that reduces EV. Help!

Love is usually the pick there; the typical Ru worshipper isn't leaning on summons. However bear in mind IIRC it does affect the "demonic aid" from Demonspawn and the wand of enslavement.
Durability takes away Armour as a skill entirely and is a decent high risk, high reward pick; it doesn't prevent the base AC of equipment from being applied but the ER penalty for body armours is only mitigated by Strength. If you're already relying on light armours (troll, maybe up to quicksilver) then I'd consider it as the pick as it gives a large amount of piety.
Sacrifice Health (-3 EV) depends on your build and how much that will affect it. It's a non-trivial amount and I tend to look at other options first if it's presented.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 00:43

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

I think this is the most bullshit death I've ever had.

"_The stone giant shouts!
The stone giant throws a large rock. The large rock hits you!!!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You butt..."

Just a D:9 stone giant who one-shot me as soon as I came into view as I was headed towards some down stairs.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 00:54

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

vulturesrow posted:

Need some help on how to Ru. I understand the best way to approach sacrifices is to go big to max out piety quickly. The problem is I don't know which ones the "big ones" are. For example my current choice is between love, durability, and something that reduces EV. Help!

You can inspect the sacrifices to see how much they're worth, press ! or something in your list of abilities to switch modes

# ? Jun 18, 2017 00:55

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

I think it also tells you during the confirmation of your choice too.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 01:26

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Sage Grimm posted:

Love is usually the pick there; the typical Ru worshipper isn't leaning on summons. However bear in mind IIRC it does affect the "demonic aid" from Demonspawn and the wand of enslavement.
Durability takes away Armour as a skill entirely and is a decent high risk, high reward pick; it doesn't prevent the base AC of equipment from being applied but the ER penalty for body armours is only mitigated by Strength. If you're already relying on light armours (troll, maybe up to quicksilver) then I'd consider it as the pick as it gives a large amount of piety.
Sacrifice Health (-3 EV) depends on your build and how much that will affect it. It's a non-trivial amount and I tend to look at other options first if it's presented.

VSEn is what I'm playing. I did look at the descriptions but somehow missed the piety gain.

In unrelated notes, if I'm playing an OpTm is the standard to rush blade hands and then dump everything into UC? Are the higher level Tm forms worth the trouble?

# ? Jun 18, 2017 03:25

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Thinking of taking my FoFi to some extended endgame (hell, pan etc), i'm currently okawaru but may switch to TSO. Any suggestions on things I should do if I want to try it? ( I realize now what a waste it was training all that necro but whatevvver). I have a 2nd triple sword I'd holy bless, and a couple aquire scrolls to burn, and I realized i forgot to chug some muts to get rid of all the crap I picked up in slime. I also have a huge pile of books but idk any spells worth training for other than regen, probably lesser beckoning but I might have to check a shop for that one

https://pastebin.com/3gu26cHA

# ? Jun 18, 2017 06:18

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Just bless your main sword holy unless the other one is like, +7 at least.

Aura of abjuration is great.

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jun 18, 2017

# ? Jun 18, 2017 06:39

hyperbowl: Mar 26, 2010

This was fun. Acquired Olgreb's staff on D:8, then Vehumet gifted me ignite poison on D:10. Inflicting undodgable damage to everything in LOS is mean.

code:

1709597 hyperbowl the Ruinous (level 27, 154/154 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fire Elementalist on June 17, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on June 18, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 08:53:01 (67735 turns).

hyperbowl the Ruinous (Gargoyle Fire Elementalist) Turns: 67735, Time: 08:53:01

Health: 154/154    AC: 55    Str: 15      XL:     27
Magic:  47/53      EV: 13    Int: 26      God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   2471       SH:  5    Dex: 12 (13) Spells: 12/61 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis .   b - +9 staff of Olgreb {rPois}
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   Q - +0 buckler {rF+}
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   G - +6 pearl dragon scales
rPois    +         Spirit   .   m - +1 helmet
rElec    +         Reflect  .   V - +2 cloak {rC+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   e - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
MR       ++++.                  D - +2 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Stlth    ..........             f - amulet of Vitality {Regen+ HP+15}
HPRegen  0.75/turn              I - ring of fire
MPRegen  0.33/turn              u - ring of the Okapi {+Inv rF+ rN+ MP+9}

# ? Jun 18, 2017 07:01

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Lesser beckoning is a good choice as it forces monsters to engage you in melee sooner, which means they are likely to use their spells from afar. As an ant there's basically no other translocation spells that benefit you aside from it and passage of golubria. Passage is actually really good, essentially acting like controlled blink that takes two turns and is slightly inaccurate. Its not as powerful as cBlink obviously but its much easier to cast and ants can actually use it due to a lore loophole.

As IronicDongz mentioned, aura of abjuration is also really good for extended. Even if you don't cast any other summoning spell its worth the exp. Lots of enemies in extended will bog you down in summons and casting it will let you clear them out almost instantly. Its not just convenient, it can save your life as enemies like shadow demons can summon torment and hellfire spamming foes. With aura of abjuration, they can't do anything.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 07:21

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

vulturesrow posted:

In unrelated notes, if I'm playing an OpTm is the standard to rush blade hands and then dump everything into UC? Are the higher level Tm forms worth the trouble?

Noooooo nonono. Rushing blade hands and then going full UC will get you murdered. Blade hands gives you nothing for defense and the damage output isn't good enough to keep you alive with no defense investment. As a squishy Op that'll give you a bad time. The big draw for Bladehands is being a high damage form that doesn't meld most of your armour, but Octopodes only have a hat. It still has some use for damage because it's a lot easier to find & cast than Dragon/Statue but it's not something you want to rush when Spiderform is still in its prime.

Dump everything into UC until level 3, then get spiderform online asap (including around ~4 levels of poison) then UC/fighting/dodging with a side of casting/transmute to get new forms. The key forms you want are Spider (early game workhorse) Ice (rPois utility to cover Spider weaknesses) Dragon (late game powerhouse) and potentially Statue (better resists than Dragon but slow). Hydra and Lich are pretty niche forms and you shouldn't need to worry about them.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 14:17

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

To add to this, Ice Form should be reasonable castable by the time you hit Lair so you can ruin the numerous snakes present; ice punches commonly slow the cold-blooded.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 14:29

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

How do you deal with hydra?

# ? Jun 18, 2017 16:33

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

As a transmuter?

Best option: Don't, just find new stairs. Go kill them later once you are several levels higher if you like.
Second best: Spider or Ice form and potentially some buff potions
Worst option: Blade hands, it cuts heads

Spiderform has much better EV and tends to be safer but Ice form does have some AC and a more useful attack brand.

E: The best option works for everyone. Hydras are one of the most dangerous and most avoidable lair threats.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 16:39

TildeATH: Oct 21, 2010; by Lowtax

Are we sure there isn't an acquirement-based gently caress you feature in this game? Play a troll and see artifact plate mail, artifact chain mail, artifact buckler, artifact crystal plate mail all before D10.

# ? Jun 18, 2017 18:06

Old Dun Cow: Sep 5, 2006

Keep in mind that Ice Form gives you some nice AC, which is crucial for Op. I don't think I even bothered with blade hands on my last one.

On an unrelated unrelated note, can anyone tell me how amulet of harm interacts with Qazlal clouds and invocations? Do any of them get a boost? What about demonspawn clouds from flaming blood or miasma belching?

# ? Jun 18, 2017 18:41

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

well rip

I did NOT respect the hell sentinels enough

# ? Jun 18, 2017 19:36

FebrezeNinja: Nov 22, 2007

Old Dun Cow posted:

On an unrelated unrelated note, can anyone tell me how amulet of harm interacts with Qazlal clouds and invocations? Do any of them get a boost? What about demonspawn clouds from flaming blood or miasma belching?

The learndb says "Increases damage done by the wearer by 30% and to the wearer by 20%. Applied after AC. It applies to damage from melee, ranged, spells, abilities, evocations, clouds, falling down stairs, etc. Drains you on removal." so yes.

Also I'm the idiot that says "I won't drink a cure wounds because one more hit will kill that guy". Shoals claims another one.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 02:56

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

FebrezeNinja posted:

Also I'm the idiot that says "I won't drink a cure wounds because one more hit will kill that guy". Shoals claims another one.

I do it too. One of these days, I'm gonna have this entry tattooed onto my forehead or something.

learndb posted:

almost dead
1. Still entirely capable of obliterating you.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 03:17

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

progressing in my apparent quest to die to every enemy in the game, alligator snapping turtles hit shockingly hard. maybe if i had read the wiki before I died instead of after, I would have known i could just loving walk away from it

# ? Jun 19, 2017 03:55

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Darox posted:

Noooooo nonono. Rushing blade hands and then going full UC will get you murdered. Blade hands gives you nothing for defense and the damage output isn't good enough to keep you alive with no defense investment. As a squishy Op that'll give you a bad time. The big draw for Bladehands is being a high damage form that doesn't meld most of your armour, but Octopodes only have a hat. It still has some use for damage because it's a lot easier to find & cast than Dragon/Statue but it's not something you want to rush when Spiderform is still in its prime.

Dump everything into UC until level 3, then get spiderform online asap (including around ~4 levels of poison) then UC/fighting/dodging with a side of casting/transmute to get new forms. The key forms you want are Spider (early game workhorse) Ice (rPois utility to cover Spider weaknesses) Dragon (late game powerhouse) and potentially Statue (better resists than Dragon but slow). Hydra and Lich are pretty niche forms and you shouldn't need to worry about them.

What about stats? Equal mix of Dex/Int? Prioritize one of them?

# ? Jun 19, 2017 04:49

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Indecisive posted:

progressing in my apparent quest to die to every enemy in the game, alligator snapping turtles hit shockingly hard. maybe if i had read the wiki before I died instead of after, I would have known i could just loving walk away from it

alligator snapping turtles are insanely strong, hitting for 45 (with reach!), and having a truck of ac and hp. Never Take Them Lightly

(i died to one recently too, it sucked. i always underestimate them because they are fuckin turtles man who's gonna get murdered by a turtle???)

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:03

Anias: Jun 3, 2010; It really is a lovely hat

someone awful. posted:

alligator snapping turtles are insanely strong, hitting for 45 (with reach!), and having a truck of ac and hp. Never Take Them Lightly

(i died to one recently too, it sucked. i always underestimate them because they are fuckin turtles man who's gonna get murdered by a turtle???)

You have summoned him.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:34

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

that thing would probably bite off my finger tip and i would deserve it for sure

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:36

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

The only people who would disrespect snapping turtles are people who have no idea what they can do.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 07:20

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

wtf they're real?

# ? Jun 19, 2017 07:29

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

"Oh, it's a big slow herbivore, it can't do anything to me." Yeah, but how do you think it survived being a big, slow herbivore?

It's like the 'old soldier' thing.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 07:49

Bob NewSCART: Feb 1, 2012; Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

Goffer posted:

wtf they're real?

Yea

Though not verified, a 183 kg (403 lb) alligator snapping turtle was found in Kansas in 1937,[9] but the largest verifiable one is debatable. One weighed at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago was a 16-year resident giant alligator snapper weighing 113 kg (249 lb), sent to the Tennessee Aquarium as part of a breeding loan in 1999, where it subsequently died. Another weighing 107 kg (236 lb) was housed at the Brookfield Zoo in suburban Chicago. Another large turtle reportedly weighed 135 kg (298 lb).[10]

# ? Jun 19, 2017 08:13

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRrWiW1o19E

# ? Jun 19, 2017 08:45

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Goffer posted:

wtf they're real?

I grew up in the South and spent a lot of time in the Suwanee river and the various springs near my home. The three things we watched the hell out for were alligators, water moccasins and snapping turtles. And coincidentally they are all in DCSS!

# ? Jun 19, 2017 10:27

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# ? May 15, 2024 01:32

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

FR: Hippo's that produce bubbles like swamp worms when underwater but are essentially death yaks tuned to swamp difficulty.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 12:54

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