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On Terra Firma posted:After 8 years, and having it get me through college, I think I'm ready to retire my 09 Nissan Versa hatch. Mazda has good chassis tuning and they have multi-link in the rear for the Mazda3, so it will feel more engaging than your Versa (a roommate had one, it was a terrible car to drive). Also, a used Lexus ES300h is right in your price range. Phone fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 09:22
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Phone posted:Also, a used Lexus ES300h is right in your price range. This isn't a hatchback though. I'm specifically looking for a hatch.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:21
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On Terra Firma posted:This isn't a hatchback though. I'm specifically looking for a hatch. I don't know just how close to a hot hatch you're leaning, but there are some cars in the CUV category that might be good. An Infiniti QX30, Audi Q3, and BMW X1 or 3-series are at the upper end of your range but would be good real estate agent cars. They also have the brand cachet to impress clients if you need to do that. Cheaper good hatches would be the VW Golf, Ford Focus, or Mazda 3 (as you've already seen). Cheaper yet and you start to lose driving performance.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:47
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Deteriorata posted:I don't know just how close to a hot hatch you're leaning, but there are some cars in the CUV category that might be good. Somewhat leaning towards the hot hatch category. I actually don't want a flashy car to impress clients as weird as that sounds. A lot of agents drive the latest and greatest but I don't believe in buying a car for other people to gawk at. I just want something that's actually fun to drive. quote:Cheaper good hatches would be the VW Golf, Ford Focus, or Mazda 3 (as you've already seen). That's why I'm bouncing between the 3. I'd probably be going with a level of GTI or the grand touring. I'll test drive the Focus when I'm out too but I'm not seeing a whole lot with the Focus that impresses me.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:38
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Hi goons, I'd like to buy a car, in france. Proposed Budget: ideally 2500 to 3000 euros, but looking online i think 3.5 or 4k is more realistic. coworkers have recommended not going under 5. New or Used: used Body Style: Would like a 4 door. Something easy to park. I don't want to drive a boat. I drive a clio 4 for work and it's comfortable size wise, but i think whoever drove it before me crashed it so I can't really speak about the ride and it creaks when I corner at speed. How will you be using the car?: As a run around. My commute is a company car, but I need something for weekends and evenings. occasional long distance trips. What aspects are most important to you? Low cost of maintenance/reliability. I'm hoping to own it for ~3-5 years, so if I could evade any major issues that'd be nice. comfort would be a nice plus. Coworkers have recommended the polo/c4/clio/golf range, which seem pretty what I'm looking for. I have no idea what is a good car in europe.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:57
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On Terra Firma posted:Somewhat leaning towards the hot hatch category. I actually don't want a flashy car to impress clients as weird as that sounds. A lot of agents drive the latest and greatest but I don't believe in buying a car for other people to gawk at. I just want something that's actually fun to drive. Focus has the hot hatch ST and the really hot hatch RS. I don't think most people lump the Mazda into the hot hatch category.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:24
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Deteriorata posted:I don't know just how close to a hot hatch you're leaning, but there are some cars in the CUV category that might be good. In particular, the 2013-15 X1 is really just an E90 wagon with a slight lift. You can even get one with the engine from the 335i.
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Jun 17, 2017 01:19
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prom candy posted:Focus has the hot hatch ST and the really hot hatch RS. I don't think most people lump the Mazda into the hot hatch category. Since the demise of the mazdaspeed, they have not. They're just fun to drive hatches, but not "hot." They'll be way slower in a straight line than a gti or an st.
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Jun 17, 2017 01:50
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Got bored during the Tigers game tonight so I compiled two more model years.pre:Year Brand Model 5-Yr Maint 5-Yr Repair Total Cost/mo 2014 Mazda 2 $3,728.00 $1,747.00 $5,475.00 $91.25 2014 Mazda 3 $4,047.00 $1,934.00 $5,981.00 $99.68 2014 Chrysler 200 $4,030.00 $1,971.00 $6,001.00 $100.02 2014 Scion iQ $4,349.00 $1,691.00 $6,040.00 $100.67 2014 Hyundai Accent $4,665.00 $1,460.00 $6,125.00 $102.08 2014 Chevrolet Sonic $4,358.00 $1,849.00 $6,207.00 $103.45 2014 Nissan Versa $4,548.00 $1,691.00 $6,239.00 $103.98 2014 Toyota Corolla $4,575.00 $1,691.00 $6,266.00 $104.43 2014 Toyota Prius $4,854.00 $1,691.00 $6,545.00 $109.08 2014 Ford Fiesta $5,015.00 $1,569.00 $6,584.00 $109.73 2014 Mitsubishi Mirage $5,022.00 $1,575.00 $6,597.00 $109.95 2014 Volkswagen Golf $4,702.00 $2,150.00 $6,852.00 $114.20 2014 Kia Rio $5,444.00 $1,460.00 $6,904.00 $115.07 2014 Toyota Yaris $5,331.00 $1,691.00 $7,022.00 $117.03 2014 Honda Civic $5,447.00 $1,691.00 $7,138.00 $118.97 2014 Chevrolet Cruze $5,360.00 $2,063.00 $7,423.00 $123.72 2014 Nissan Juke $5,582.00 $2,006.00 $7,588.00 $126.47 2014 Volkswagen Beetle $5,676.00 $2,150.00 $7,826.00 $130.43 2014 FIAT 500 $5,813.00 $2,142.00 $7,955.00 $132.58 2014 Smart ForTwo $5,570.00 $2,728.00 $8,298.00 $138.30 2014 Subaru Impreza $6,511.00 $2,070.00 $8,581.00 $143.02 2014 Mini Coupe $7,522.00 $2,728.00 $10,250.00 $170.83 2014 Porsche Cayman $11,639.00 $8,007.00 $19,646.00 $327.43 Year Brand Model 5-Yr Maint 5-Yr Repair Total Cost/mo 2015 Hyundai Accent $3,884.00 $1,097.00 $4,981.00 $83.02 2015 Mazda 3 $3,747.00 $1,534.00 $5,281.00 $88.02 2015 Chrysler 200 $3,779.00 $1,563.00 $5,342.00 $89.03 2015 Scion iQ $4,026.00 $1,340.00 $5,366.00 $89.43 2015 Toyota Prius $4,118.00 $1,340.00 $5,458.00 $90.97 2015 Nissan Versa $4,222.00 $1,340.00 $5,562.00 $92.70 2015 Toyota Corolla $4,254.00 $1,360.00 $5,614.00 $93.57 2015 Mitsubishi Mirage $4,664.00 $1,183.00 $5,847.00 $97.45 2015 Honda Fit $4,646.00 $1,340.00 $5,986.00 $99.77 2015 Ford Fiesta $4,788.00 $1,242.00 $6,030.00 $100.50 2015 Nissan Juke $4,545.00 $1,590.00 $6,135.00 $102.25 2015 Kia Rio $5,067.00 $1,097.00 $6,164.00 $102.73 2015 Honda Civic $5,029.00 $1,340.00 $6,369.00 $106.15 2015 Toyota Yaris $5,034.00 $1,340.00 $6,374.00 $106.23 2015 Chevrolet Cruze $5,105.00 $1,636.00 $6,741.00 $112.35 2015 FIAT 500 $5,343.00 $1,659.00 $7,002.00 $116.70 2015 Volkswagen Beetle $5,286.00 $1,954.00 $7,240.00 $120.67 2015 Smart ForTwo $5,184.00 $2,113.00 $7,297.00 $121.62 2015 Volkswagen Golf $5,478.00 $1,954.00 $7,432.00 $123.87 2015 Chevrolet Sonic $6,032.00 $1,464.00 $7,496.00 $124.93 2015 Subaru Impreza $5,874.00 $1,641.00 $7,515.00 $125.25 2015 Mini Coupe $5,813.00 $2,113.00 $7,926.00 $132.10 2015 Land Rover Range Rover $9,719.00 $9,226.00 $18,945.00 $315.75 Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 02:11
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What is that based on because I have an 09 Mazda3 and I have spent nowhere even close to 4 grand on maintenance in 4.5 years.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:09
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IRQ posted:What is that based on because I have an 09 Mazda3 and I have spent nowhere even close to 4 grand on maintenance in 4.5 years. quote:Maintenance It's an estimate, and there is statistical uncertainty around it. You may have spent less, others may have spent more. It's probably also assuming all maintenance is done at the dealer at twice the cost of a neighborhood shop, at exactly the time specified by the manufacturer. We all know that almost no one actually does that. A lot of stuff the manufacturer suggests is unnecessary and almost never done, at least not at the intervals they suggest. Its main value is in being a standard for comparison. Any particular car may be much better or much worse than that average value. All cars are being evaluated the same way, though, so comparisons are meaningful even if the absolute number is not exactly right. The primary thing it tells me overall is that maintenance and repair costs for modern cars are not something to worry about for most people. A couple thousand dollars in the purchase price is far more important in the economics of buying and owning a car. "Reliability" isn't all that different among them, at least not different enough to make a big difference overall.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:55
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What are the Tesla model s / x numbers? Just for laughs.
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Jun 17, 2017 07:12
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Chrysler 200 with surprisingly cheap maintenance costs. Ooh, 15k a year. Yeah, 60k is when Chrysler goes sour. CannonFodder fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 12:16
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Deteriorata posted:The primary thing it tells me overall is that maintenance and repair costs for modern cars are not something to worry about for most people. A couple thousand dollars in the purchase price is far more important in the economics of buying and owning a car. "Reliability" isn't all that different among them, at least not different enough to make a big difference overall. I don't think you can conclude that from your table though. People who should worry a lot about reliability/maintenance cost don't buy a new car every 5 years. I'm sure the disparity in maintenance/repair cost between a Japanese economy car and a Fiat/Mini would become much more apparent once you look past the car warranty period, and look instead over a 10-15 year period.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:52
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That land rover cost, wow. No wonder I see tons of new ones and absolutely none past a standard lease period.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:54
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silence_kit posted:I don't think you can conclude that from your table though. People who should worry a lot about reliability/maintenance cost don't buy a new car every 5 years. I'm sure the disparity in maintenance/repair cost between a Japanese economy car and a Fiat/Mini would become much more apparent once you look past the car warranty period, and look instead over a 10-15 year period. I've used these examples specifically because they're all out of warranty. It's the estimated costs over the next five years of buying one now, based on the cost of an extended warranty for each. A FIAT 500 will cost more to maintain than average, but that average is low to begin with and it's not that much more. Other factors are going to be more important. I.e., if they can get a 500 for a few grand less than a comparable Fiesta they're going to be money ahead. Beyond that, Minis and FIATs are strong "personality" cars - if it connects with you, you're going to love it and and repair costs just go along with it. If you don't like them, they're not worth it. So basically it supports my main advice in car buying - get one that fits you and you like. Every car is going to cost money to maintain and repair, and if you're in one you love you're not going to mind it. If you hate your car, it doesn't matter how comparatively cheap it is to run, you're going to resent every penny you spend on it. Get one you love for whatever reason and have fun.
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Jun 17, 2017 15:48
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DNK posted:What are the Tesla model s / x numbers? Just for laughs. No data yet on Teslas.
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Jun 17, 2017 15:50
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mastershakeman posted:That land rover cost, wow. No wonder I see tons of new ones and absolutely none past a standard lease period. Boss has one as a company car, regular routine brake jobs cost a couple grand. It's ludicrous. I've always wondered where all the used ones go because I never see any either.
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Jun 17, 2017 16:34
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Deteriorata posted:It's the estimated costs over the next five years of buying one now, based on the cost of an extended warranty for each. Oh, I see. Still, the comparison is at most looking at 8 year old cars with not that many miles on them. The average age of cars on the road in the US is ~11 years, and people who would care a lot about having a low total cost of car ownership would be interested in repair costs for cars which would be that age or older. I'm sure the repair/maintenance cost disparity would become more stark when you look at what happens when those cars get much older. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 16:41
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IRQ posted:Boss has one as a company car, regular routine brake jobs cost a couple grand. It's ludicrous. I've always assumed warlords/druglords but maybe they just demolition derby them. It makes no sense.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:13
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Junkyards and backyards to keep the few remaining ones running. The real questions, is where did all the Hummers go? Somehow, loving Norway: https://goo.gl/maps/iEofQUxX49C2. These things were surprisingly common when I was there
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Jun 17, 2017 22:52
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Also I'd like to add the RR is one of those cars that changes little from gen to gen or facelift to facelift, similar to the Wrangler, so it might be tough to tell not-too-distant model years apart. Personally I see older ones in Chicago a fair amount, I believe they tend to be popular with those looking for an 'image' luxury barge that has already hit massive depreciation.
Michael Scott fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 04:39
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Michael Scott posted:Also I'd like to add the RR is one of those cars that changes little from gen to gen or facelift to facelift, similar to the Wrangler, so it might be tough to tell not-too-distant model years apart. Personally I see older ones in Chicago a fair amount, I believe they tend to be popular with those looking for an 'image' luxury barge that has already hit massive depreciation. BTW, the 5-year splits on a 2013 Audi A4 are $7427/$6238/$13,665/$227.75. Should still be cheaper than that Fiesta you were driving.
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Jun 18, 2017 05:14
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Deteriorata posted:BTW, the 5-year splits on a 2013 Audi A4 are $7427/$6238/$13,665/$227.75. Should still be cheaper than that Fiesta you were driving. I hate how hard it is to tell if you're being sarcastic, but I don't think you are haha. I assume you mean the specific Fiesta I was driving? Cuz the Fiesta is definitely a good car for those looking for a cheap barrier to entry and cheap TCO. BTW nice work on those tables, cool to see it laid out in some format that isn't a bullshit listicle. I got a pre-emptive brake job quote from my independent shop and it's like $1,300 for all 4 lol, $115 for an oil change. Michael Scott fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 06:03
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Why do you need brakes already?
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Jun 18, 2017 13:04
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Why do you need brakes already? Presumably a PPI was too much effort? I appreciate those tables, but as an example, the 2013 Audi a4 timing chain interval falls outside of the 5 year milage range; that's a pull the engine job for those cars and is somewhere north of $3K to do. I am amused by the poor shlub with engine #3 burning oil at 200K. https://www.truedelta.com/Audi-A4/expensive-problems-7 Blitter fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 13:44
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Why do you need brakes already? Blitter posted:Presumably a PPI was too much effort? From earlier in the thread.... Michael Scott posted:I asked and they wouldn't let me take it out of the dealership for that, so I relied on the BMW dealership 'inspection' and the reputation they have. Looking back I should have said no offsite PPI, no sale. I'm taking it for a real inspection today and will see what comes back. I knew coming into it that these have expensive maintenance, and I'm expecting that :/. Michael Scott is an idiot who has embarrassed himself over and over again in this thread, yet he still pops by to offer his worthless advice instead of disappearing off the earth forever in shame, like he probably should have a long time ago.
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Jun 18, 2017 14:45
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Michael Scott posted:I hate how hard it is to tell if you're being sarcastic, but I don't think you are haha. I assume you mean the specific Fiesta I was driving? Cuz the Fiesta is definitely a good car for those looking for a cheap barrier to entry and cheap TCO. BTW nice work on those tables, cool to see it laid out in some format that isn't a bullshit listicle. No, that was serious and I was referring to the specific Fiesta you were driving. Individual cars may vary a lot from the average, and that one seemed to be pretty terrible.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:24
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I'm not an idiot and haven't been embarrassed too bad! Internet Explorer is intensely committed to being a huge rear end in a top hat at every opportunity. I don't need brakes yet at all. It is a possibility that I will at some point while I own this car so I wanted to know how much it costs and what my leeway was since it is probably the single most expensive wear item. Is that True Delta guy paying for engine replacements out of pocket? Extended warranty maybe? What causes a car to be cursed like that and why wouldn't Audi buy the vehicle back after the 2nd engine? Michael Scott fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 18:34
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Michael Scott posted:I'm not an idiot and haven't been embarrassed too bad! Internet Explorer is intensely committed to being a huge rear end in a top hat at every opportunity. I don't need brakes yet at all. It is a possibility that I will at some point while I own this car so I wanted to know how much it costs and what my leeway was since it is probably the single most expensive wear item. You should be embarrassed. There are very good recommendations in this thread, which you even agree are correct and good (like a loving PPI) but you happily ignore them because you're Micheal Scott and hey, no PPI or hey, ex rental, or hey, DCTs r gud, or hey, I'm not racist but.. Yes he's paying for new engines on an out of warranty car you loving idiot, it is not cursed, it's a lovely Audi although the owner is probably a loving idiot with zero mechanical empathy. Like you. Why would Audi buy their poo poo back from the rubes that buy them? If you had a clue you'd know there was a class action lawsuit on that engine for a various shortcoming but hey, you're Micheal Scott! Edit: also, loling at the notion of brakes being the most expensive wear item, ha ha. Blitter fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 19:00
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Blitter posted:You should be embarrassed. There are very good recommendations in this thread, which you even agree are correct and good (like a loving PPI) but you happily ignore them because you're Micheal Scott and hey, no PPI or hey, ex rental, or hey, DCTs r gud, or hey, I'm not racist but.. Disagreed on a few points. I didn't ignore a PPI, went and got one and the dealer agreed they would work with me based on the results. It all came back good anyway. I do like well-executed DCTs, they feel awesome, the latest A4 has one. I'm not racist  The class action suit does not apply to the '13 MY. http://www.oilconsumptionsettlement.com/ What wear item is more expensive than brakes if you don't DIY? Now that I think about it he's definitely not paying for at least 1 of those engines out of pocket, since there would be a warranty on the parts and work from the first replacement. Michael Scott fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 19:15
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Michael Scott posted:] On a per corner cost, struts, CV joints, hub assemblies, control arms etc? Pretty much everything is cheaper than brakes?
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Jun 18, 2017 20:05
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Good tires cost more than a DIY brake pad+fluid job, and need to be replaced more often, too. Plus probably an alignment to go with it for good measure. And the better performing the tire, the shorter its lifespan. And if you've got larger wheels in the 18+ inch range they can get pretty pricey, too. Tires are also one of the most fundamental pieces of equipment for both safety and performance, and most people are extremely negligent about their tire wear and quality of tire they purchase. Those 4 chunks of rubber are literally the only thing between your car and the road, don't buy the cheapest, hardest, "longest lasting" Chinese offbrand tires to save a few bucks. Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 20:09
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Blitter posted:On a per corner cost, struts, CV joints, hub assemblies, control arms etc? Pretty much everything is cheaper than brakes? 4 side strut job on this car is slightly cheaper than 4 brakes (by $100 or 200). I'm not sure about the others, you're probably right. You got me on tires, those are going to be a giant dickpain. I have me some nice ContiProContacts from 2015. Michael Scott fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 20:46
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So I purchased a new 2016 Honda Odyssey EX with 0 km on the clock new 4 months ago after listening to all the van versus SUV talk. It's been fantastic except for one thing. I've noticed when you give it some gas it shudders a bit getting up to highway speeds. Is this in any way normal? Only thing I can think of is wheel alignment but I'm not an expert and there's only 4,000 km on it. Figured this would be the best place to ask as there's a lot of knowledgeable car people.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:38
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Mursh posted:So I purchased a new 2016 Honda Odyssey EX with 0 km on the clock new 4 months ago after listening to all the van versus SUV talk. It's been fantastic except for one thing. It's not normal. Take it back to the dealer.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:10
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Throatwarbler posted:It's not normal. Take it back to the dealer. Agreed. We have a 2013 Odyssey and it does not do this ever.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:15
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An update to the manual car hunt - my dad went to go test out the VW Golf R with my brother (didn't fit apparently), and while he was there tried out the Golf Alltrack. It apparently reminded him of his old VW Rabbit, so he had me drive over to see if I fit (I did), and then signed a lease for it the next day. I never got a chance to talk about other cars to check out. He's taken me out twice to learn how to drive it, and I now know: -How easy it is to stall a car -What clutch smells like -That I don't like it when people honk at me Even though I never got to check out the other cars, I'd still like to thank you guys a whole bunch for the advice you've given.
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Jun 19, 2017 06:38
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ilmucche posted:Hi goons, I'd like to buy a car, in france. Hello friend! Euro questions tend to get ignored but I will do my best. The Clio 4 is a bit odd, it's quite a bit bigger than the previous Clios. It's in between the size of the older Clio and the older Megane. Your friends have recommended a mix of B and C class cars which are quite different. i would recommend testing out some of the B segment cars in your price range to see if you like the size. If it's ok, I personally think the Polo, Skoda Fabia, Ford Fiesta and C3 post 2009 are the best in segment. I would probably not buy a petrol C3 though. If you want to step up to C segment I like the Megane, the Focus, the Astra and the Golf. Hard to go wrong with the Golf. You can usually find the Seat Leon cheaper, it's a cheaper Spanish golf. Also - At your purchase budget and at European running costs I would strongly consider not owning a car.
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Jun 19, 2017 09:17
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Would it be ill advised to add the Mazda 2 to the Euro list?
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Jun 19, 2017 12:23
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