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PureRok posted:I feel like the odd one out in that I just watch the show. I don't analyze anything, or think deeply about the meaning behind some pebble on the ground. I just watch it and let whatever is happening just happen. I take most of it at face value. Reading this thread (well, skimming, since I think some of you look too hard at some things) makes me feel like I'm watching an entirely different show. there is no wrong way to watch this i basically do the same as you, just let it wash over me
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Jun 16, 2017 20:26
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:Show him Andy walking into the planks. You know, this really creeped me out when I read it at first, because my father's name is Andy and I was scanning down the thread and saw this and because of my post I immediately thought of Andy (my father) not Andy (the dopey deputy) and was briefly really alarmed and confused by your reply. Why does this sort of thing always seem to happen in relation to Lynchian stuff? And no, I didn't show him the whole scene, and it probably would change his perspective on it. It's just really hard to get him to watch long clips, so I had to find a 1-minute clip that might make an impression on him and couldn't really think of anything more classically Lynchian than that from the new series. My father is pretty similar to me overall in terms of his taste in art, so I have no doubt whatsoever that he would appreciate and enjoy both Twin Peaks, and David Lynch. I mean, he's enjoyed several TV shows that very much took inspiration from Lynch over the years. Can't really imagine anyone who watched and loved (most of) Lost, (season 1 of) True Detective... poo poo, he even loved watching DS9 and BSG back when I had recommended those to my little half-sister. The real issue is whether his wife wants to watch it. Which she actually might, since she's a fan of Lynch herself, if memory holds. On another issue entirely, I've been thinking about how *odd* it is to watch something that is (apparently) not really meant to be episodic at all in the form of week by week episodes? I'm starting to wonder if it's just a stipulation from Showtime, or a kind of meta-commentary on the part of Lynch. Like, what we've had lately is shows that are still functioning according to an episodic format being released all at once, when if you're releasing it all at once to be binge-watched why are you even bothering to be a slave to the episodic format at all? So Lynch and Frost have their 500 (or whatever) page script of the massive Twin Peaks revival and there's absolutely no real sense of episodic structure whatsoever; in truth, any episode could end or begin with ANY given scene. Would you guys agree with that statement? It also made me wonder whether we'll have fan edits of this ultimately, that organize things in a different way. I'm really very curious to see how these threads wind up interlacing and playing out, given the way they're building up and the sort of confluences of plotlines (literal or thematic) should be very interesting. Part of what I just *love* is that Lynch has been establishing all these plotlines, and any of them might be developed significantly (or not) at any given time. Like, I don't think anyone was really expecting Carl to come back in the last episode, or that we would spend so much time with Richard Horne. I mean, the next episode could take place entirely in Buckhorn, South Dakota - for all we know. Or it might take place entirely in Twin Peaks. Or we might spend yet another half-episode (or full episode) in Dougie-Land. However, I am increasingly of the opinion that he's not gonna "snap out of it" soon or easily, and frankly it'd be a copout if he did and I'd be fairly disappointed. In the original Twin Peaks series, we needed Dale Cooper, because he was not only the handsome, lantern-jawed guide who was leading us on this dark journey we were going on, but he was the indestructible beacon of purity - the assurance that good ultimately triumphs over evil. It's been said before, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Kyle Maclachlan looks like Clark Kent as Dale Cooper. And isn't this why the whole concept of DoppleCoop/Bob having sort of merged into one being so fascinating? Because it's as if all of Coop's faculties are being harnessed for evil? I'm just going to throw it out there that I'm guessing it is impossible by some arcane rules of the Lodge that we do not understand for both of them to "be Cooper", in a way. What I'm trying to say is that it seems unless Mr. C/CoopleBob/whatever enters the Red-Room/Lodge via some mean (like the oil pool) or is killed in this world, then DougieCoop is not going to "wake up" and go back to being Special Agent Dale Cooper. It really does seem like there would be a causal relationship there based on what the one-armed man has indicated. Wondering if part of the reason why Mr C/EvilCoop had all that illegal and weird poo poo on him (like the severed dog leg) was just in case he DID get pulled into the Black Lodge and Cooper switched with his body. That way Cooper would be a bit hosed trying to explain where he'd been all those years and why all this poo poo was in his car. kaworu fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 21:01
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HD DAD posted:I honestly think they had the entire script written before Ontkean dropped out, and instead of rewriting Hawk's role, Lynch and Frost just it's funny because forster was lynch's original pick to play truman, but conflicts or something resulted in the role going to ontkean. at least, if i remember right.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:22
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and did a find/replace with Forster.
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Jerusalem posted:I should be frustrated that Coop hasn't emerged yet, but Dougie is just so fascinating to watch. The scene with his Boss slowly working out what he thinks Dougie was trying to tell him was so great. Yeah the garbage woman scared me. What does it for me is just the reversal of the usual logic that when you confront your irrational fears, they're supposed to go away. Instead in that movie they stare right back at you.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:58
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The garbage woman isn't even a woman, I don't think. I used to think that was the case, but when I saw Mulholland Drive again in theaters a couple weeks ago, I totally heard Patrick Fischer refer to the nightmare garbage character as "he" and "him". I thought the surprised homeless dude from the prison cell in episode 2 couldn't be the same character as the garbage woman from Mulholland Drive, but then I saw Mulholland Drive again and realized the garbage woman was actually a garbage man and I don't know what to believe now. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:22
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:The garbage woman isn't even a woman, I don't think. I used to think that was the case, but when I saw Mulholland Drive again in theaters a couple weeks ago, I totally heard Patrick Fischer refer to the nightmare garbage character as "he" and "him". I thought the surprised homeless dude from the prison cell in episode 2 couldn't be the same character as the garbage woman from Mulholland Drive, but then I saw Mulholland Drive again and realized the garbage woman was actually a garbage man and I don't know what to believe now. the garbage man was played by a woman actor
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Jun 17, 2017 00:38
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Another episode without James. Another good episode.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:43
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strap on revenge posted:the garbage man was played by a woman actor 
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Jun 17, 2017 00:47
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Shibawanko posted:Yeah the garbage woman scared me. What does it for me is just the reversal of the usual logic that when you confront your irrational fears, they're supposed to go away. Instead in that movie they stare right back at you. My favorite part of that scene is how it does a slow crawl up to the corner and then "BAM!" And then almost every other shot in the entire rest of the movie is a slow crawl up to a corner....
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Jun 17, 2017 02:26
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What brought that scene into focus for me (the one with Patrick Fischler) was an analysis I saw that pointed out how the the irrationality of guilt works. When you're committing some awful crime, doing something that you know is wrong, if you have a conscious then you're going to get scared shitless and feel really guilty. We see Patrick Fischler at the Winky's Diner, and at the exact instant after Diane makes the transaction just about, she scans around the diner and sees Fischler standing at the counter, and their eyes briefly meet. The idea is that in a moment like that, when you're feeling so vulnerable and lashing out by doing something you know is monstrous,you feel as if people can see right through you. Like everyone knows. So in the Windy's scene, obviously, it's a representing Diane's inability to come to terms with her own actions. In fact, all of the more menacing characters in the "dream" show up in the real world at the times when Diane is at her most hosed up and vulnerable. Kind of amazing because I had thought I had this movie more or less figured out, but then I watch it again and it just confounds me. II used to find the Club Silencio scene stylish and moving, and now when I watch it, it's more of a nightmare of sexual abuse imagery. Kind of strange how certain films are like an onion.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:04
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kaworu posted:Kind of strange how certain films are like an onion. Yeah, it makes me cry too.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:12
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kaworu posted:Kind of strange how certain films are like an onion. Yeah it's spicy
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Jun 17, 2017 06:46
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kaworu posted:dad stuff It's funny, I've been thinking about my dad a whole lot lately because of this show. He and my mom were fanatics for Twin Peaks when it was originally airing, they'd throw little parties and invite their friends over and serve coffee and pie each week when the new episode aired. I was very young but watching the show with my family comprises some of my most vivid memories from childhood. My dad is also the one who really turned me on to Lynch by recommending Eraserhead, he had all these great stories about catching midnight showings of Eraserhead and El Topo and Holy Mountain, he was really into that sort of stuff but as I reached the age where I really started to appreciate it more, he and I grew apart and our relationship kind of fell apart (he made some stupid mistakes that led to my parents getting a divorce and I held it against him for a while). And not long afterwards, he developed oral cancer and died a couple of years later. I didn't even find out he was sick until about six months before he died, I wasn't really interested in talking to him and he was still so wrapped up with his own guilt and shame that he was afraid to actually reach out to me until things got really bad. I finally had a chance to reconcile with him but by that point he'd already had most of his bottom jaw removed and couldn't speak and was under such heavy sedation that he wasn't really all there. I'm glad I was able to see him again before he died but I still haven't really gotten over it, he died just over three years ago, he was only 49, I guess I just always assumed I'd have time to patch things up with him someday and we'd be able to talk about things like Jodorowsky films and the baby from Eraserhead again. My mom isn't so much into the surreal stuff, she didn't really like FWWM but she's been interested in the new series and I've enjoyed telling her about it. She doesn't watch a lot of tv anymore and she'd rather just hear about each episode from me, it's kinda funny, we've usually sat in a diner or something on Monday or Tuesday and I tell her all about Sunday's episode and we've gotten some strange looks from people because of it (especially explaining Cooper leaving the lodge, Dougie getting sucked into the Lodge, and BOBCoop puking garmonbozia and crashing his car). But of all the things I wish I could talk to my dad about, this is surprisingly high on the list. For years my dad, at the most inappropriate times, would squirt water out of his mouth and say "new shoes". This show and Lynch's films in general really opened the door to a lot of the art I enjoy the most. It means a lot to me, and it's sorta inextricably bound up with my dad in my psyche. Sorry for the rambling sadness, I just wanted to say I think it's really cool that your dad is fascinated by this stuff too and I hope you enjoy sharing it with him  I hope he gives the whole series a shot, there's so much you guys will be able to talk about.
Gatekeeper fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 08:31
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Ohhhh, Diane. I just got it. I was wondering why Laura Dern got such a dramatic reveal.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:15
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It took me just enough time to get it to think "who the hell is Di-"  e: does that say "holky gently caress"?
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Jun 17, 2017 10:02
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No, I don't think so.
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Jun 17, 2017 13:00
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Chinook posted:No, I don't think so. Think again! Ain't I just a regular Cooper?
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Jun 17, 2017 13:21
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Gatekeeper posted:Dad stuff I just want to say that this post really means a lot to me, and well... Hits a lot closer to home than you probably realized. I absolutely take for granted that my dad will always be there, and we have certainly had our issues in recent years that have led to a more fractured relationship with him than I ever thought I'd had. And it makes me even more sad, because I know his other two children, my brother and half-sister, probably *call* him maybe once every 6 months now (which is less contact than I get from my brother and more than I get from my sister). It's all just... very very complicated, and very very sad. One of the things I love about Lynch's material is that because of the sort of... dreamlike connections and occasionally supposed "random" things happening, he occasionally strikes one a scene or a moment or a shot that might appear totally arcane to most, but has a REALLY deep and meaningful resonance to me (or any given person) that sort of... elevates the material to an almost spiritual level. Watching FWWM for the first time was a lot like that for me. Upon a rewatch of episode 7, I found the most powerful moment by far was when Carl was just unflinchingly looking at the grieving mother with absolute compassion, and suddenly all the awkward reaction shots of the crowd made total sense to me - they were just a direct contrast to how Carl confronts deep grief/death, versus most people. Carl is able to offer unflinching and unconditional compassion and forgiveness and whatever else that woman was seeking in his craggy face, whereas all anyone else could do was flinch and act awkward and mutter and try to keep a certain distance, as if death and grief were a disease that's catching. And I think IS how most people act in such a situation, it's a rare individual who can walk up and help in such a situation. If there's any sort of... I dunno, meaning in the scene I think that because Carl has "gone places" (such as the Lodge when he was a child, and according to Frost's book he did a great deal of traveling after that and before he settled down at the trailer park) he clearly has a certain understanding/empathy, or ability to see things most people do not see. Like Margaret's ability to hear the spirits in the wood.
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Jun 17, 2017 13:28
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So uh was the yellow cloud from the kid supposed to be garmonbozia going into the black lodge or something? Or his soul or what?
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Jun 17, 2017 14:26
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Okay guys, I have been REALLY perplexed by the weird poo poo that went on when EvilCoop/Mr. C shot Phyllis (Bill Hasting's wife). Now, I always though that it must have been like... a Black Lodge spirit escaping as he killed her, maybe? Because as she is shot in the head what looks like a *flame*. The reddish stuff escaping out of her expanding head DEFINITELY ain't blood, either. There's also this weird... hiccup when she gets shot in the visual that I couldn't quite explain,. So I tried my best looking at it frame by frame with the amazon player, and I managed to get this incredibly screengrab. Forgive me if this has been posted before:  This is a straight screengrab from the point at which Phyllis is shot, right at the moment of the "hiccup" I was describing. Wow. Any clues as to what in gently caress THIS means? And this is most definitely NOT "wonky CGI" Lynch has very purposely distorted the perspective and there even seems to be a "shadow Phyllis" of some sort along with the exploding cloud of fire/blood/whatever. I suspect fire, since fire represents possession on this show, and Phyllis seems to have been possessed by a Lodge spirit or entity. That's my take, I *guess*. But man.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:35
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kaworu posted:Okay guys, I have been REALLY perplexed by the weird poo poo that went on when EvilCoop/Mr. C shot Phyllis (Bill Hasting's wife). Now, I always though that it must have been like... a Black Lodge spirit escaping as he killed her, maybe? Because as she is shot in the head what looks like a *flame*. The reddish stuff escaping out of her expanding head DEFINITELY ain't blood, either. There's also this weird... hiccup when she gets shot in the visual that I couldn't quite explain,. You're reading way too much into this show.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:37
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Pretty sure Evil Coop manipulated a normal person and shot her when she was no longer useful to him. I don't think there's really much more to read into that scene.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:40
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Lycus posted:Ohhhh, Diane. I just got it. I was wondering why Laura Dern got such a dramatic reveal. I'm reading this kind of reaction a lot and though I've recently watched the original series I still don't get why is it so important that it's Laura Dern. Is it because some other role she played in a movie or...? Halp, what I am missing?
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Jun 17, 2017 15:16
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She was in Blue Velvet, Wild At Heart and Inland Empire and Lynch thinks very highly of her, and prior to this new series he announced that she would play a very important character. I think it's more that we finally get to see who that is and it turns out to be the enigmatic Diane.
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Jun 17, 2017 15:26
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My Lovely Horse posted:She was in Blue Velvet, Wild At Heart and Inland Empire and Lynch thinks very highly of her, and prior to this new series he announced that she would play a very important character. I think it's more that we finally get to see who that is and it turns out to be the enigmatic Diane. Aaaaah thanks, only knew her from Jurassic Park and was already trying to tie that in somehow, because this show is messing with my mind
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Jun 17, 2017 15:29
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I'm not sure I like Diane being a real person and not just Cooper's tape recorder but Laura Dern is always great.
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Jun 17, 2017 15:30
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Shibawanko posted:You're reading way too much into this show. Kaworu's takes on the show have been beautifully enlightening. Lynch lends his works to such wild speculation and analysis anyway, because it all runs on dream logic, weird feelings erupting from unusual imagery.
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Jun 17, 2017 15:33
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I think she was always meant to be a real person: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXa8xWiFd9U
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Jun 17, 2017 15:34
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Trabandiumium posted:I think she was always meant to be a real person: Yup. Also this Missing Pieces scene with Diane off camera is ridiculously cute and really highlights how close she was with Coop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQA0U6zWyY I wonder if Diane will play some of Cooper's final or missing tapes to Albert? I don't really want Cooper to return anytime soon because Dougie's Odyssey is surely the heart of the show but it will be extra devastating to hear classic 25 years-ago Dales's voice and thoughts in the same episode we see old, brain-blasted Dale 
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Jun 17, 2017 16:13
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:I'm not sure I like Diane being a real person and not just Cooper's tape recorder but Laura Dern is always great.
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Jun 17, 2017 16:45
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Of course, given the tight continuity of actors and roles in this show, this means Diane has always been Laura Dern.
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Jun 17, 2017 17:02
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Xinder posted:Pretty sure Evil Coop manipulated a normal person and shot her when she was no longer useful to him. I don't think there's really much more to read into that scene. OK, I don't think I was really making my point clear. I was referring to the red cloud/shape that seemed to come out of her head as he shot her, and this VERY strange fisheye-like effect that Lynch put in for a JUST a frame or two as she was being shot and this red cloud seemed to be coming out of the bullet-wound as she went down. To make it a bit more clear here are two screencaps from the same exact second - and again, the effect in the second screencap only lasts a frame or two.  and a tenth of a second later this changes to: Do you guys see the weirdness going on here I am trying to point out? FauxLeather posted:Kaworu's takes on the show have been beautifully enlightening. Lynch lends his works to such wild speculation and analysis anyway, because it all runs on dream logic, weird feelings erupting from unusual imagery. Thank you! I appreciate that  I more or less use 'dream logic' and wild associations that I intuitively feel might contain meaning, and really enjoy sort of going from here to there to where-ever and seeing where the thought process takes me. I can't analyze or make posts about just any TV show like this, because most aren't nearly this dense or well-thought out. And it's the way Lynch operates - using intuitive associations where he is able to make leaps of metaphoric logic and manifest that often as an obscured or semi-obscured part of the narrative in his work. Don't see what's wrong with analyzing in a somewhat similar manner, and just going on a journey and seeing where it takes you.
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Jun 17, 2017 17:07
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kaworu posted:OK, I don't think I was really making my point clear. I was referring to the red cloud/shape that seemed to come out of her head as he shot her, and this VERY strange fisheye-like effect that Lynch put in for a JUST a frame or two as she was being shot and this red cloud seemed to be coming out of the bullet-wound as she went down.
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Jun 17, 2017 17:12
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kaworu posted:OK, I don't think I was really making my point clear. I was referring to the red cloud/shape that seemed to come out of her head as he shot her, and this VERY strange fisheye-like effect that Lynch put in for a JUST a frame or two as she was being shot and this red cloud seemed to be coming out of the bullet-wound as she went down. To me that seems like a screen effect for impact. And the line "You followed human nature perfectly" strikes me very clearly as a way of saying "you're very predictable". Not to spoilsport you too hard but this one just feels like really reaching even harder than I'm used to seeing in this thread.
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Jun 17, 2017 17:54
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Xinder posted:To me that seems like a screen effect for impact. And the line "You followed human nature perfectly" strikes me very clearly as a way of saying "you're very predictable". I mean, it's David Lynch. If it does mean something, we will probably never get an explanation, which is the same result for if it doesn't. People will be dissecting every scene of this show for years to come and there will never be official explanations for anything beyond a few bits filtered through character dialog that may or may not be intended to be taken at face value.
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Jun 17, 2017 18:01
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That reminds me of the screen warping towards the end of Lost Highway when Balthazar Getty looks through the door in the motel and Patricia Arquette is like "YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU WHYYYY"
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Jun 17, 2017 18:01
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remusclaw posted:I mean, it's David Lynch. If it does mean something, we will probably never get an explanation, which is the same result for if it doesn't. People will be dissecting every scene of this show for years to come and there will never be official explanations for anything beyond a few bits filtered through character dialog that may or may not be intended to be taken at face value. Yeah, I generally try to avoid shutting people down because I agree it is fun and it's not hurting anyone. It's just that sometimes I feel like people are focusing way too hard on something that (at least to me) seems very unimportant and has no super deep meaning. But I understand that people are probably going to ignore me and keep analyzing it because that's what they want to do, so it's pointless of me to even say.
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Jun 17, 2017 18:13
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a mysterious red haze spraying out from a gunshot wound 🤔 what could that mean 🤔🤔 there's a million interviews where Lynch talks about how the experience of the work is more important than the work making sense. I think if you try to read too deep into every little thing that happens in this series you will go insane
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Jun 17, 2017 18:24
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Integral Catculus posted:Think again! Ain't I just a regular Cooper? doesn't look like anything to me
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Jun 17, 2017 18:39
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I'm actually rewatching the first season again with my girlfriend since she got interested by how excited I was with each new episode and wanted to see what it's all about. We're on the third episode and it's reminding me of just why I loved Cooper as much as I did. I still have the biggest crush on this character. I'm glad she's feeling the same way.strap on revenge posted:the experience of the work is more important than the work making sense This is how I always approached Lynch's work so I'm glad to know that's explicitly what he's going for anyways.
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Jun 17, 2017 18:56
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