|
Archer666 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qczuUrglM I'm reminded of that interviewer who asked Alex Jones "if you know all this stuff, and your enemy is so ruthless, powerful and evil...why aren't you dead?" If all the "samdmonkeys" (Kraut's words on Twitter) are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, you'd think Kraut would have long since been martyred by now.
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 17:07 |
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's weird that when people were assassinating abortion doctors nobody screamed at moderate christians for not speaking up. There was a cnn opinion piece around that time about how silence is confused with consent and it's a duty of moderate Christians like the author to speak out against hardliners. So I've seen the opinion exactly once.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 15:13
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:There was a cnn opinion piece around that time about how silence is confused with consent and it's a duty of moderate Christians like the author to speak out against hardliners. So I've seen the opinion exactly once. It's a correct opinion. If you're actually a devout christian (not just someone who went to church once in the last 5 years and stays nominally christian because grandma might disapprove if they didn't) then it's your job to point out that idiots shouting about how god hates fags are actually idiots and embarrass you by association.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 15:30
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I don't know I don't care is Carl's ethos Hey man, at least it's an ethos.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 15:36
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:what owlfancier said. you should be able to swear at the president, the vp, all of their hangers on, any media personality that defends them. those morons that interrupted julius caesar while mispronouncing goebbels are both checkmarks for instance. No decent platform is going to just let chuds out there swear at actually important people (for the low threshold of important that the internet has made) if it wants to be taken seriously. If you want celebrities on your platform (and they do, since your random tweets to your buddies don't generate any real ad revenue) you have to give them some sort of protection from the standard harassers of the internet. Whinging about this is no different than watching say h3h3 or PDP whinging about not doing be able to make ad bucks from their edgy "humor" on Youtube. If you want to swear (and god knows I do), do it in the side corner of the site and don't bother the main feeds where the ad money is being made. If you want to say that the Nazi edgelords don't deserve verified status, that's an argument I'm willing to entertain. But your basic line is that you just get to harass noteworthy people on these services. Sorry, I don't put up with that any more than the GG types we're discussing here who think harassing any feminist of note is acceptable. I'd think to mention the kind of comments Mr. Obama would have gotten while in office, but half this forum wants to hang him for not turning the country over to high school dropouts after the GFC. quote:most maga chuds are fairly well off white peeps btw. Maybe it's where I live, but hardcore MAGA/bernout types seem to line up best with what could be nicely explained as losers. Un(der)employment, low education, and general low status. Even the MAGA types that actually have a decent job are the dumbasses who spit out a shortie or find some way to be cash poor while making a bunch of money. It fully could be Pennsyltucky and WV bleeding into the area, but I've also seen it in other areas while travelling for work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 15:57
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:But your basic line is that you just get to harass noteworthy people on these services. yes. we get very little in this world to shout at the rich and powerful that oppress us and i should be given carte blanche to tweet "gently caress you" at every one of the president's tweets if i so desire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:01
|
|
|
Poor celebrities with their money and mansions and legions of fans, how can they possibly deal with being told to gently caress off on twitter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:04
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's weird that when people were assassinating abortion doctors nobody screamed at moderate christians for not speaking up. Yup. And it's doubly bad that the biggest case in the US (George Tiller) was done inside the church he was ushering for at the time. Shockingly, the right was slient about some pretty awful anti-Christian (though I doubt they'd recognize him as one) violence inside a house of worship. Same thing with the loon who murdered all the Unitarians in their church for the horrible crime of being the least hate mongering Christians in the US except for maybe the UCC. Members of fringe religious sects just can't help but try to play gatekeeper to wider faiths I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:06
|
|
|
blowfish posted:It's a correct opinion. If you're actually a devout christian (not just someone who went to church once in the last 5 years and stays nominally christian because grandma might disapprove if they didn't) then it's your job to point out that idiots shouting about how god hates fags are actually idiots and embarrass you by association. They should be doing more than that and actively working against those types of Christians.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:yes. we get very little in this world to shout at the rich and powerful that oppress us and i should be given carte blanche to tweet "gently caress you" at every one of the president's tweets if i so desire. So you'd be fine with the kind of harassment that Mr. Obama would have gotten from the MAGAratti (i.e. birtherism and ethnic slurs) if the shoe was on the other foot? Because you can't even really pick sides with a service as large as Twitter, because actually policing these things in a way that isn't mostly automated would be impossible to do. Facebook only does it by giving individuals the ability to curate their own pages, meaning they can hire someone to push harassers off when they start spewing their poo poo inside a group. OwlFancier posted:Poor celebrities with their money and mansions and legions of fans, how can they possibly deal with being told to gently caress off on twitter. Glad to see someone standing up for internet harassment. Honestly, I didn't think that was a position that would see support in this thread of all places. What is the easily drawn line between what you are talking about being fine and what Milo or the New Atheists have pushed? Or are you one of those children who is convinced that anyone with any level of success just deserves to be belittled by a bunch the annoying mob of the internet? Because the logical conclusion of that is just to make the web an unusable place for anyone with any level of success, which does a lot to make it that much less usable. Besides, nothing is actually stopping you from telling Trump, Hillary, or whoever to gently caress off. You just don't get to have it seen by the rest of the world. I don't see why you should expect a private service to act as your own personal bullhorn for harassment. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jun 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:Glad to see someone standing up for internet harassment. Honestly, I didn't think that was a position that would see support in this thread of all places. What is the easily drawn line between what you are talking about being fine and what Milo or the New Atheists have pushed? Or are you one of those children who is convinced that anyone with any level of success just deserves to be belittled by a bunch the annoying mob of the internet? Because the logical conclusion of that is just to make the web an unusable place for anyone with any level of success, which does a lot to make it that much less usable. Right, get this, Milo yabadooppropgl is wrong about everything. And so he deserves to be told he's an idiot fuckstick 24/7 until he either kills himself or shuts up. Other people are not wrong and so they should be listened to. Harrassment, much like punching people in the face, is not wrong when applied to nazis. And is in fact, good. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jun 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Right, get this, Milo yabadooppropgl is wrong about everything. And so he deserves to be told he's an idiot fuckstick 24/7 until he either kills himself or shuts up. True, but I don't trust Twitter to be able to pick and choose who is or isn't a legitimate target, so it's better for them to have a blanket ban.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
rkajdi you're saying twitter shouldn't put any effort into actually sorting out what is actually harassment and what is deserved. they should have to lie in the bed they made by not banning all the nazis and not banning trump.Who What Now posted:True, but I don't trust Twitter to be able to pick and choose who is or isn't a legitimate target, so it's better for them to have a blanket ban. banning for swears as light as "hell" or "drat" is incredibly dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:True, but I don't trust Twitter to be able to pick and choose who is or isn't a legitimate target, so it's better for them to have a blanket ban. That just makes the complaint that twitter is a pile of shite run by knobheads, which isn't really very dissimilar from the original suggestion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
Archer666 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qczuUrglM It's really cool when a guy who is a white wahhabi when it comes to women and who would shove muslims into an oven given half a chance expects expects muslims to bow down and grovel to him for crimes they didn't loving commit. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Right, get this, Milo yabadooppropgl is wrong about everything. And so he deserves to be told he's an idiot fuckstick 24/7 until he either kills himself or shuts up. Alright, how as a service do you set that decision up so that it can be made over a large system with minimal intervention by the service? The options are to let people police their own twitter threads (which people hated when Trump did it) or actually make everyone act civil by not allowing abusive speech to get broadcast. There's also actual account bannings, but I think we've found that when accounts are free and just require a new e-mail, it's trivial to get around a ban. The only thing that keeps it from being an issue here on SA is the paywall. And for some reason, I don't think twitter users would be willing to pay $5 one-time for an account. Even though that would reduce the amount of harassment and kill the bot marketplace overnight. I agree with you that Milo is a walking piece of poo poo, BTW. But the line between constantly telling him to gently caress off and the kind of harassment he shepards is pretty thin. Thin enough that you couldn't police it with automatic moderation tools. Not being able to tell the establishment politician you hate at the moment gently caress You is the price we pay for reducing the amount of harassment people get for being a minority on the internet. I'd think this would be a simple thing to explain, but I'm also not naive enough to think @BernOut316 being able tweet gently caress You at Donald Trump makes any kind of meaningful difference.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:39
|
|
|
What kind of dork still hangs on to the phrase 'bernout'?!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:Alright, how as a service do you set that decision up so that it can be made over a large system with minimal intervention by the service? The options are to let people police their own twitter threads (which people hated when Trump did it) or actually make everyone act civil by not allowing abusive speech to get broadcast. There's also actual account bannings, but I think we've found that when accounts are free and just require a new e-mail, it's trivial to get around a ban. The only thing that keeps it from being an issue here on SA is the paywall. And for some reason, I don't think twitter users would be willing to pay $5 one-time for an account. Even though that would reduce the amount of harassment and kill the bot marketplace overnight. Give me the twitter controls and a £20k salary and I'll have a go. Also I feel it pertinent to point out that "Well we can't run a profitable service if we tried to police it" does not actually in any way refute the fact that the service is a load of shite.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
Actually, verbal (or textual) harassment is good & we should have more of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:Maybe it's where I live, but hardcore MAGA/bernout types seem to line up best with what could be nicely explained as losers. Un(der)employment, low education, and general low status. Even the MAGA types that actually have a decent job are the dumbasses who spit out a shortie or find some way to be cash poor while making a bunch of money. It fully could be Pennsyltucky and WV bleeding into the area, but I've also seen it in other areas while travelling for work. Zizek posted:The exemplary figures of evil today are not ordinary consumers who pollute the environment and live in a violent world of disintegrating social links, but those who, while fully engaged in creating conditions for such universal devastation and pollution, buy their way out of their own activity, living in gated communities, eating organic food, taking holidays in wildlife preserves, and so on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:rkajdi you're saying twitter shouldn't put any effort into actually sorting out what is actually harassment and what is deserved. they should have to lie in the bed they made by not banning all the nazis and not banning trump. No service is going to ban the sitting POTUS from it. That's like asking for a tax audit or extra targeted regulation. They're probably not going to ban the candidate from a major party, just to make sure their bets are hedged in case something like the 2016 chud flood happens. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how the real world works. I'm entirely behind banning the nazis and pepes from twitter, but the question is how do you keep them off? GG was particularly good at having lots of targeted harassment from disposable accounts, and I'd have to think that the bitshirts would be savvy enough to figure out that an extra e-mail address is easy to get and thus create a dummy account from. quote:banning for swears as light as "hell" or "drat" is incredibly dumb. Again, you get to say it, you just have to say it into the space instead of borrowing someone else's bullhorn to amplify your speech. You have to play by the rules of the guy with the bullhorn. If you're going to be complaining about that, you're no better than the "FREEZE PEACH" types on reddit complaining about self-censorship and how they need their boob sliders back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:55
|
|
|
They don't apply a blanket ban, people always make fun of how badly enforced their rules are. I don't trust them to properly enforce anything
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:No service is going to ban the sitting POTUS from it. That's like asking for a tax audit or extra targeted regulation. They're probably not going to ban the candidate from a major party, just to make sure their bets are hedged in case something like the 2016 chud flood happens. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how the real world works. I'm entirely behind banning the nazis and pepes from twitter, but the question is how do you keep them off? GG was particularly good at having lots of targeted harassment from disposable accounts, and I'd have to think that the bitshirts would be savvy enough to figure out that an extra e-mail address is easy to get and thus create a dummy account from. You can also, rightly, complain that the guy with the bullhorn is a knobhead who supports fascists. Because he is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 16:58
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:That just makes the complaint that twitter is a pile of shite run by knobheads, which isn't really very dissimilar from the original suggestion. No poo poo Twitter is a pile of poo poo run by idiots. Congrats on figuring out what everybody else knew from the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Well yeah, it's unsurprising that the people who have done pretty well out of a system and who don't have to interact with the people who haven't are the people who are least likely to want radical change of that system in any direction, and similarly those that feel failed by it will want radical change without necessarily thinking it through. Yeah, but the existing system works. Handing it over to the white chuds of populism (half of which are represented by the YouTube morons we mock here) has a pretty well-beaten track record of loving the economy up for everyone. If you're going to argue for some actual working social democracy (not the kind that puts whites or natives ahead) I'd be 100% behind it, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that is supported by any of the populist movements I'm seeing. Sorry, you don't get to have sympathy in creating a new group of untested winners just because you were (rightly) found to not be all that useful. Also glad to see you've fallen for the standard Zizek line of "packaging rightwing messages for the leftist", BTW. I never heard a drat thing out of his mouth that wasn't just standard social conservatism reworded to be eaten up by leftists. He's argued that the only moral possible Christianity would be some sort of Calvanist garbage, for Christ's sake. OwlFancier posted:You can also, rightly, complain that the guy with the bullhorn is a knobhead who supports fascists. And that's fine. But don't say abusive things if you don't want to be temporary silenced. Note that at least in Milo's case, he doesn't have an account anymore. He was banned for organizing the exact kind of action that you have deemed acceptable-- harassment of Leslie Jones. Again, it's rather hard to say that gently caress Off is appropriate to say to one person and ban-worthy when they reply in kind. No service is going to be able to police that very well, automated or no. If your argument is to not verify white nativists and to ban them when they start spewing their stuff, again I'm in your corner 100%. That's probably the best answer. But acting like people can just go sickhouse on them while complaining when it goes in reverse is just dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:38
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:No poo poo Twitter is a pile of poo poo run by idiots. Congrats on figuring out what everybody else knew from the beginning. For reals. I sort of see it as the next big tech domino to fall after Uber. They aren't making any money, and I don't see how they are ever going to. Facebook has a good income model, even if we don't particularly like it. Twitter just doesn't, and seems to import all the toxicity of YouTube at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:And that's fine. But don't say abusive things if you don't want to be temporary silenced. Note that at least in Milo's case, he doesn't have an account anymore. He was banned for organizing the exact kind of action that you have deemed acceptable-- harassment of Leslie Jones. Again, it's rather hard to say that gently caress Off is appropriate to say to one person and ban-worthy when they reply in kind. No service is going to be able to police that very well, automated or no. If your argument is to not verify white nativists and to ban them when they start spewing their stuff, again I'm in your corner 100%. That's probably the best answer. But acting like people can just go sickhouse on them while complaining when it goes in reverse is just dumb. It's not remotely hard to say that it's ok to tell dickheads to gently caress off and not OK to tell good people the same thing. I just said it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
rkajdi posted:Yeah, but the existing system works. Handing it over to the white chuds of populism (half of which are represented by the YouTube morons we mock here) has a pretty well-beaten track record of loving the economy up for everyone. If you're going to argue for some actual working social democracy (not the kind that puts whites or natives ahead) I'd be 100% behind it, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that is supported by any of the populist movements I'm seeing. Sorry, you don't get to have sympathy in creating a new group of untested winners just because you were (rightly) found to not be all that useful. Does that mean giving in to their wishes and creating whatever kind of bad throwback system they want while still loving over other people? No. It does mean recognizing that a system that creates angry directionless people is a failed system though. quote:Also glad to see you've fallen for the standard Zizek line of "packaging rightwing messages for the leftist", BTW. I never heard a drat thing out of his mouth that wasn't just standard social conservatism reworded to be eaten up by leftists. He's argued that the only moral possible Christianity would be some sort of Calvanist garbage, for Christ's sake.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:It's not remotely hard to say that it's ok to tell dickheads to gently caress off and not OK to tell good people the same thing. I just said it. Ok, now get Twitter to enforce it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:54
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Ok, now get Twitter to enforce it. Are you seriously arguing that because something is a certain way that it should be that way?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:56
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/876465004056281088 yowza
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 17:59
|
|
|
I mean that's theoretically true if you happen to be in charge of the state.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:01
|
|
|
probaly because he belives(somewhate rightly) that he would survive under facism maybe even thrive as some midlevel useful idiot. he wouldnt under communism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:08
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Are you seriously arguing that because something is a certain way that it should be that way? I'm arguing that you're wasting your time. Twitter is garbage and arguing about its moderation practices is useless.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:11
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:The system where 8 guys own the same amount of wealth as half the world doesn't 'work'. Even outside of that the simple fact that it's that system that creates angry people who feel voiceless and become regressives should be plenty evidence that it doesn't work. But it's not the guys at the bottom actually fighting. It's the white chuds halfway up the ladder that realize that they are losing the unearned privilege they got from being born white, straight, and in the developed world. Sorry, it's patently obvious what they want on both the left and right side of populism, and it sure as poo poo isn't anything like equality. It's going to be yet another attempt by the undeserving poor whites of America to gently caress with everyone who passed them by because they aren't useless. And gently caress up the system that actually allows the world to function and minimize human warfare after not one but two war wrecking wars in a fifty year period. quote:He does fall back on Orthodox Marxism a little bit too much, but I don't think trad. Marx is in the same ballpark as standard social conservatism. It's just 'not liberalism' which understandably is outside the liberal-conservative spectrum. Again, the point. It's more white workers paradise bullshit. Screw that, if I wanted to here from some fake woke loser about how feminism and LGBT rights aren't really important and how we need to create a replacement for old school authoritarian poo poo religions, I'd listen to one of the morons we are lampooning in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:probaly because he belives(somewhate rightly) that he would survive under facism maybe even thrive as some midlevel useful idiot. he wouldnt under communism. A finger on the monkey paw curls inwards and he awakens in Francisco Nguema's Equatorial Guinea.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:I'm arguing that you're wasting your time. Twitter is garbage and arguing about its moderation practices is useless. I'm not sure that in the youtube idiot thread you can realistically complain about people arguing uselessly about garbage.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:probaly because he belives(somewhate rightly) that he would survive under facism maybe even thrive as some midlevel useful idiot. he wouldnt under communism. Except he wouldn't because he'd immediately be thrown into an oven for having mixed blood background and being mentally challenged.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:17
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:probaly because he belives(somewhate rightly) that he would survive under facism maybe even thrive as some midlevel useful idiot. he wouldnt under communism. No chance that guy gets anywhere in the long term. He's too dumb to keep his head down, and not charismatic enough to actually run things. Being seen and not in charge just makes you a target when someone gets too paranoid about internal threats. He'd make an excellent fascist leader, though. I mean, considering he just has to matchup with idiots who do things like start an unprovoked war with an erstwhile ally or just fail to move his economy onto war footing until years into a major conflict, I figure a half educated blowhard would fit right in.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 17:07 |
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure that in the youtube idiot thread you can realistically complain about people arguing uselessly about garbage. Can and did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2017 18:35
|
|