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cis autodrag posted:ive never written a parser from scratch. who expects that from people when there's already good libraries for it in every non poo poo language? In the terrible programmers thread there is a perfect example of when you need to roll your own parser (when the input is garbage and there's nothing you can do about it). It's also really not that hard.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:13
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I also once had to specialise my former company's inhouse JSON parser to be blazingly fast for a very specific type of JSON input.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:15
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qhat posted:In the terrible programmers thread there is a perfect example of when you need to roll your own parser (when the input is garbage and there's nothing you can do about it). It's also really not that hard. i've written parsers for xml, json and some other formats before and it's not hard, but i spent more than 3 hours on it to do it right and make sure everything worked
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Jun 18, 2017 21:23
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when i hear "parser" i imagine it must basically be a compiler and also be provably correct for all possible inputs. how do you put that together in 3 hours?
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Jun 18, 2017 21:25
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The_Franz posted:i've written parsers for xml, json and some other formats before and it's not hard, but i spent more than 3 hours on it to do it right and make sure everything worked sure but 3 hours is not really a long time. and i wouldn't expect someone to implement the whole standard, just something like write a program to turn a string like <html><body><p></p></body></html> into it's prettified version with indentation and throw errors on mismatched tags or something. not everything has to be an exercise in autism nerds.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:26
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like are we talking just "read this text and put it into a data structure" or like "please make an ll(1) parser" because the first i could do easily though with likely bad performance but the latter id have to brush up on a gently caress ton of theory for.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:28
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cis autodrag posted:like are we talking just "read this text and put it into a data structure" or like "please make an ll(1) parser" because the first i could do easily though with likely bad performance but the latter id have to brush up on a gently caress ton of theory for. just use a stack to remember which blocks you're currently in. the above question i posted i did in under an hour with no prep at all.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:30
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cis autodrag posted:like are we talking just "read this text and put it into a data structure" or like "please make an ll(1) parser" because the first i could do easily though with likely bad performance but the latter id have to brush up on a gently caress ton of theory for. wikipedia says ll(1) is easy, what's the problem? 
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Jun 18, 2017 21:30
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carry on then posted:when i hear "parser" i imagine it must basically be a compiler and also be provably correct for all possible inputs. how do you put that together in 3 hours? same when i read "write a basic html parser" my brain turns it into "write something like rapidxml in under 3 hours"
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Jun 18, 2017 21:31
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The closest thing to programming whiteboard interviews I've heard of in other semi well paying professions is having to do some sort of presentation. Seems like there's a clear standards gap that's letting through enough terribles that doesn't necessarily exist in other industries. IIRC Uncle Bob likes to talk about how we'll be forced to close that gap with <Government Certified Software Guild> after a dev or two kill a bunch of people with a bug someday.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:32
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Iverron posted:The closest thing to programming whiteboard interviews I've heard of in other semi well paying professions is having to do some sort of presentation. someday?
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Jun 18, 2017 21:33
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carry on then posted:someday? fair enough, if I'm remembering the talk right he mentions how he doesn't understand why it didn't happen with a few key examples like the Therac-25
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Jun 18, 2017 21:35
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I feel the problem with you guys is that you get asked a question and your brain explodes in an exponentially diverging avalanche of what ifs instead of just doing exactly what the interviewer asked for
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Jun 18, 2017 21:35
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cis autodrag posted:i got the house. the landlord is super nice and facetimed us a walk through. it's bigger than my current house and has a back yard fenced in. just need to sell this house and i am out of the woods on this poo poo. keep your current house. become an absentee landlord. rise above the millennial cohort
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Jun 18, 2017 21:36
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qhat posted:I feel the problem with you guys is that you get asked as question and your brain explodes in an avalanche of what ifs instead of just doing exactly what the interviewer asked for I don't think the general complaint has anything to do with not being able to adequately answer a question as much as the cargo culting around said questions I work with a guy (for the next two weeks) who almost certainly cranks his hog every time he catches a dev with one of his gotcha questions
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Jun 18, 2017 21:40
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Iverron posted:I don't think the general complaint has anything to do with not being able to adequately answer a question as much as the cargo culting around said questions There are people in this thread arguing right here and now that coding should not form part of the interview process for a coding position.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:43
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It might surprise some but I have actually genuinely interviewed people who have entirely falsified their work experience and qualifications and pre-cooked their answers from glassdoor in an attempt to get an easy paycheck. This is why interviewers ask basic dumb questions and get people to explain themselves.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:46
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my worst interview nightmare is to be interviewed by a yosposter
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Jun 18, 2017 21:55
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getting salty about your preferred way to have plausible deniability for excluding women and other "undesirable" candidates is really not a good look
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Jun 18, 2017 22:46
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jfc this thread.qhat posted:I feel the problem with you guys is that you get asked a question and your brain explodes in an exponentially diverging avalanche of what ifs instead of just doing exactly what the interviewer asked for this is it. nobody is asking you to write a complete, perfect, optimal general purpose parser. just answer the question. write the right code for the question. code that runs reasonably well and doesn't break on the obvious corner cases. make it simple. think about the implementation. describe the issues and your approach and why you decided to do it this way.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:33
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much like a real work project, you're only allocated just enough time to cover common cases and part of the test is to confirm that you can indeed make compromises and deliver something working but probably non-optimal on a deadline
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Jun 18, 2017 23:34
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and when you're done with the programming question, pray that the interviewer happens to like you/your gender/race/nationality/schooling/etc. because that's what will be the deciding factor rather than glorified trivia
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Jun 18, 2017 23:50
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even if you find whiteboard coding interviews silly, compare it to the BS you see for interviews in other fields, or to school applications (SAT/GREs) and it's not so bad.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:52
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The Management posted:jfc this thread. the question as written here was "write a parser for html." my first inclination is to get the spec and start implementing and not stop until i have every statement and stipulation accounted for, because i'm not familliar enough with it in that way to know what the obvious corner cases even are. normally i just write html and if the browser renders the page wrong or the validator raises an issue i fix it.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:01
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carry on then posted:the question as written here was "write a parser for html." my first inclination is to get the spec and start implementing and not stop until i have every statement and stipulation accounted for, because i'm not familliar enough with it in that way to know what the obvious corner cases even are. normally i just write html and if the browser renders the page wrong or the validator raises an issue i fix it. The question was actually "write a parser for this basic html" if you ignore what I wrote afterwards clarifying what the specific question I received was
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Jun 19, 2017 00:16
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cool av posted:even if you find whiteboard coding interviews silly, compare it to the BS you see for interviews in other fields, or to school applications (SAT/GREs) and it's not so bad. mind elaborating? being serious, every time I mention our normal to people in other industries they seem surprised
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Jun 19, 2017 00:18
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redleader posted:keep your current house. become an absentee landlord. rise above the millennial cohort nah, it just reassessed at 30k more than we paid for it and the condo association bans long term rentals. im good with just making a bunch of cash by accident.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:27
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carry on then posted:the question as written here was "write a parser for html." my first inclination is to get the spec and start implementing and not stop until i have every statement and stipulation accounted for, this is a problem. knowing when and how to appropriately cut corners (or otherwise refraining from building things that are more complicated than necessary) is a very useful skill, and thats typically part of what the short deadline on interview problems is meant to exercise Progressive JPEG fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 00:47
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Progressive JPEG posted:this is a problem. knowing when and how to appropriately cut corners (or otherwise refraining from building things that are more complicated than necessary) is a very useful skill, and thats typically part of what the short deadline on interview problems is meant to exercise yea it is a problem, because i have this constant battle of "this seems unimportant" vs "if someone else interviewing for this implemented this and i don't, i lose, game over"
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Jun 19, 2017 01:21
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carry on then posted:yea it is a problem, because i have this constant battle of "this seems unimportant" vs "if someone else interviewing for this implemented this and i don't, i lose, game over" well, I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like a bad fit carry on then, best of luck in your future endeavours.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:32
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carry on then posted:the question as written here was "write a parser for html." my first inclination is to get the spec and start implementing and not stop until i have every statement and stipulation accounted for, because i'm not familliar enough with it in that way to know what the obvious corner cases even are. normally i just write html and if the browser renders the page wrong or the validator raises an issue i fix it. I can't even
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Jun 19, 2017 01:33
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I get to give notice tomorrow and I really hope I get a free 2 week vacation
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Jun 19, 2017 01:52
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I start my new job tomorrow and I can't wear any of the nice new clothes I bought because the weather decided to go from raining to 102 degrees in a week.
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Jun 19, 2017 02:09
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Iverron posted:mind elaborating? What's your greatest weakness? What type of animal would you be? Where do you see yourself in 10 years? Also I've heard anecdotally that those awful variants of the "how many gumballs are in a jar?" / "how many gas stations are there in NYC?" that thankfully seem to have died down in tech interviews are starting to pop up in sales interviews of all things.
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Jun 19, 2017 02:37
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the worst interview i ever had was with Blizzard. they opened with "so if you could be any superhero, who would you be?" and i just froze up and mumbled something about not really keeping up on my superheroes and it was all down hill from there. luckily, it was also one of my shortest interviews!
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Jun 19, 2017 02:41
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cool av posted:
so much of sales is trying to bullshit your way through a situation that those questions seem completely appropriate
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Jun 19, 2017 02:41
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Shaman Linavi posted:the worst interview i ever had was with Blizzard. they opened with "so if you could be any superhero, who would you be?" and i just froze up and mumbled something about not really keeping up on my superheroes and it was all down hill from there. Lol. Dodged a bullet IMHO.
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Jun 19, 2017 02:54
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Shaman Linavi posted:the worst interview i ever had was with Blizzard. they opened with "so if you could be any superhero, who would you be?" and i just froze up and mumbled something about not really keeping up on my superheroes and it was all down hill from there. 
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Jun 19, 2017 02:55
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I got an interview tomorrow. Some kind of kernel hacking role, expecting to get rinsed on dumb C and OS internals trivia.
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Jun 19, 2017 02:56
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Shaman Linavi posted:the worst interview i ever had was with Blizzard. they opened with "so if you could be any superhero, who would you be?" and i just froze up and mumbled something about not really keeping up on my superheroes and it was all down hill from there. chew on that, interviewer using the term "superhero" very loosely here
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Jun 19, 2017 03:02
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