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Snowglobe of Doom posted:$3 million on TV ads for WW is a pittance. so didn't put that much $$$ behind advertising Suicide Squad compared to other movies, it was a cheap move for Vanity Fair to draw that comparison. No one watches TV anymore, dude. Maybe they're just realising it's money they don't need to spend.
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Jun 19, 2017 09:17
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Snowman_McK posted:No one watches TV anymore, dude. Maybe they're just realising it's money they don't need to spend. I guess we'll know either way when we find out what they spend on Justice League. teagone posted:Those estimates were 5 weeks out of the film's release. AdAge reported that, again based on iSpot.tv estimates, the total amount WB has dropped on TV ads for WW to this point is about $24.8 million http://adage.com/article/media/s-a-critic/309360/ Well why didn't you post that link in the first place. I'm betting that the co-branded ads are still way way less than BvS (there's not a lot of chances for product placement for a film set in WW1) so the total ad spend will still be down.
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Jun 19, 2017 09:24
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Well why didn't you post that link in the first place. Because the first article I linked still got the point across. And the article explicitly mentioned that's how much was spent 5 weeks still out from release up til that point, not the total TV ad budget. Snowglobe of Doom posted:For a start you'd expect a superhero movie that had just come out to have more merch on the shelves than a superhero movie that wasn't in theatres for another month yet, especially since Marvel has been downplaying Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and X-Men toys for the last few years. I'd be interested to know if there was more Wonder Woman toys than Batman or Superman toys in those stores, the article very carefully didn't mention that. Wonder Woman transcends general movie merchandising since it has girl-oriented merchandising too, or did you miss that part of the article: quote:Then there are the girl-oriented tie-ins, like Wonder Woman-branded cosmetics, jewelry and purses. The female Amazonian princess, with her golden lasso and sword, could earn up to $1 billion from global sales of licensed merchandise, said Karina Masolova, executive editor of The Licensing Letter, which tracks licensing revenue. That would put her ahead of Superman and on par with Batman, who gets an advantage from his assortment of weapons and vehicles. Just because whatever stores you visited don't have an abundance of WW merchandise on display does not mean WW is lacking any. teagone fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 09:24
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teagone posted:Wonder Woman transcends general movie merchandising since it has girl-oriented merchandising too, or did you miss that part of the article. I've been talking about merchandise specific to the WW movie this entire time, or did you miss that?
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Jun 19, 2017 09:26
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I've been talking about merchandise specific to the WW movie this entire time, or did you miss that? No? I'm talking specifically about WW merchandising tie-ins too.
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Jun 19, 2017 09:28
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teagone posted:No? I'm talking specifically about WW merchandising tie-ins too. The Bloomberg article you linked to said "toy sales this year for Wonder Woman, strictly tied to the movie, will be about $100 million" but overall WW merch sales will be perhaps $1 billion. Edit: just to be clear, my argument has been "There's a lot less merchandise specifically branded for the WW film than there was for BvS", I wasn't commenting on the general amount of generic WW merchandise. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 09:36
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The Bloomberg article you linked to said "toy sales this year for Wonder Woman, strictly tied to the movie, will be about $100 million" but overall WW merch sales will be perhaps $1 billion. Unless I'm reading it wrong, the article reads that toys (i.e., action figures, funko pops, dolls, stuff like that I'm guessing) tied to the movie will bring in roughly $100 million. And then girl-oriented merchandising tie-ins (cosmetics, jewelry, purses, clothing, etc.) to the film could bring in an estimated $1 billion in revenue. Did more searching and another site using the same source, posted this: quote:Merchandising around the film featured standard superhero toys, but also ties to more women-oriented products such as branded cosmetics, jewelry and purses, which could bring in as much as $1 billion worldwide in sales, Karina Masolova, executive editor of The Licensing Letter, told Bloomberg. But then the graphic used in the Bloomberg article that posts revenue from 2015 shows WW merch in comparison to Batman and Superman merch so  My point still stands though. Just because you don't see more WW movie merchandise in the toy store compared to BvS merchandise doesn't mean there isn't any. The articles I've linked clearly show the WW film does have the amount of merchandising tie-ins to be considered a tentpole film based on Wikipedia's definition of the term. Not that the film even needed to be proven or justified as such, but I wanted to. [edit] I just realized you probably thought when I typed out WW in previous posts, I was just talking about WW in general. No, whenever I typed out WW, I meant in regards to the film. Guess I should have italicized like you did, or added "movie" after. Oh well. teagone fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 09:58
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BrianWilly posted:And that sniper...was Jesus Christ Fisher of Men. 
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Jun 19, 2017 10:02
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I liked this movie except for the final battle where it felt like The Studio went 'OK this is a superhero movie so the superhero needs to fight the supervillian in a cool CGI fight!' and the animators threw together something that satisfied them.
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Jun 19, 2017 10:37
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404notfound posted:The movie almost doesn't even pass the Bechdel test, once we get out of Themyscira. Sorry to quote back a couple of pages, but this is a perfect example of 'moving the goalposts'.
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Jun 19, 2017 10:39
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teagone posted:My point still stands though. Just because you don't see more WW movie merchandise in the toy store compared to BvS merchandise doesn't mean there isn't any. That's not your point, that's my point. I said that exact thing about 10 posts ago: Snowglobe of Doom posted:I know they released action figures and toys for the film but I never saw any
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Jun 19, 2017 10:58
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You chopped off a whole chunk of my argument! Your whole thing I was arguing against was that you mentioned Wonder Woman isn't a tentpole film since you felt it lacked the merchandising tie-ins in comparison to BvS, relegating WW to "hammock" status because you hardly saw any toys or action figures for the film in stores. I took that as you implying that maybe you felt WB didn't provide Wonder Woman with adequate advertising/promotion. That's why I brought up the whole Uproxx/Vanity Fair thing. I also cited several other articles that presented evidence contrary to this idea that WB didn't promote Wonder Woman hard enough, either through ads or merchandising tie-ins. [edit] This is a dumb debate, so I'm gonna stop bringing it up haha.
teagone fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 11:14
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Just came back from watching the movie, and it was good. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I interpreted the God-killer twist as her not actually needing her bracers to be bulletproof: As the movie progressed there was an ongoing theme of her powers increasing as she realized her divinity - obviously culminating with her winning an all-out brawl against Ares. When she crossed No Man's Land she was still coming to terms with not being just another Amazon, which would explain her relative mortality. Also, wouldn't having Zeus as her sole "biological" parent make her a god, rather than just a demigod?
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Jun 19, 2017 12:50
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Svensken posted:. I think we're supposed to think that Hippolyta was the mother, so demigoddess would be correct.
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Jun 19, 2017 13:02
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I thought the movie was kind of bland but the flashback to Ares after he gets shot with lightning and he's swoled out but has the same stupid moustache was very funny.
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Jun 19, 2017 14:33
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I'm not exactly sure what Tenzarin meant .... Here let me help. It meant exactly this: DeimosRising posted:He thinks because he didn't like Beavis and it got slammed by critics that it didn't make a lot of money. However, it did
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Jun 19, 2017 16:30
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I thought the movie was pretty fun but the final reveal that Ares is actually the dumpy looking British dipshit from Fargo was not that great
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Jun 19, 2017 17:41
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ungulateman posted:There's not much Christian about Wonder Woman. There's a split second where she's in the sky with her arms apart, but it's much more a 'god gently descending from the heavens' pose than a crucifixion - which makes sense, since she's just obliterated Ares with divine might. The confusion here is that Steve Trevor is the Christ stand-in. Sent from Heaven to Diana's world, he teaches Diana that mankind is a fallen creation and that it's not about what they deserve but what they believe: they may be born sinners, but they'll be saved if they accept Christ. His sacrifice is a limited atonement in the tradition of the Calvinists, as saving everyone is "not what we're here to do." Reborn as a Christian, Diana eliminates Magneto with a beam of light from a flying, electrified cross. The clash of her new beliefs with her warrior-like Old Testament behavior represents the critical Jewish perspective of clumsily grafting the New Testament onto the Old Testament to reverse-engineer the old prophecies and prove the new ideology. If Batman is a reformed sinner, Wonder Woman is the Hyper-Calvinist who carries an image of the cross, kills monsters from other worlds (other religions and cultures), and believes only God can intervene to redeem the damned in contrast to her prior belief that people can be changed. Toady fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 19:09
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You're no SMG.
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Jun 19, 2017 19:15
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I don't even know what that means.
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Jun 19, 2017 19:18
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Toady posted:The confusion here is that Steve Trevor is the Christ stand-in. Sent from Heaven to Diana's world, he teaches Diana that mankind is a fallen creation and that it's not about what they deserve but what they believe: they may be born sinners, but they'll be saved if they accept Christ. Hmm, missed that scene. Will have to keep an eye out on a rewatch.
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Jun 19, 2017 19:24
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Sir Kodiak posted:Hmm, missed that scene. Will have to keep an eye out on a rewatch. When Diana has a crisis of faith after killing Ludendorff, Steve tells her that mankind is bad, but that she shouldn't think in terms of deserving damnation. It's not her place to deliver rewards and punishments. Her role isn't to drop a tank onto Dr. Poison, nor is it to help her. She adopts a Calvinist position: people are inherently depraved, and God's love will save them if He wills it to.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:04
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Finally got a chance to see WW this weekend. It was good and fun. My Mother has seen it 4 times already because she loves it that much. She isn't even a huge comic book fan she just loves the movie.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:07
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Toady posted:When Diana has a crisis of faith after killing Ludendorff, Steve tells her that mankind is bad, but that she shouldn't think in terms of deserving damnation. It's not her place to deliver rewards and punishments. Her role isn't to drop a tank onto Dr. Poison, nor is it to help her. She adopts a Calvinist position: people are inherently depraved, and God's love will save them if He wills it to. Where's "if they accept Christ" in this?
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Jun 19, 2017 20:51
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Honestly, while I thought it was a good movie, i think it's a bit undeserving of all the praise it get. Part of me wonders if it's due to it starring the first female superhero (yes I know about catwoman and electra, shut up). This is not a bad thing mind, as I realise that Wonder woman has a symbolic value for a lot of women, and I am thrilled they got a hero that inspires them. By the way, there was obviously a point in having Diana fight the germans only to realise the villian was Brit Mustache, but i am not quite sure what it was. She fights the germans only because Steve told her they were the bad guys, but the allies were (irl) just as bad. There was no good or bad side in WW1, so it's a bit puzzling to see the allies represented as the good side. Best as I can figure, it was just setting her up for Ares reveal that humanity in general is terrible and we dont deserve her, and then juxtapose that with the braveness of Steve to show that we are good and evil, but it seems like such a weak conclusion somehow. Like, she murders her way across the front and that's the payoff? (Incidentally, that reminds me of a quote from a comic Batman about her; "Force peace.' The AMAZON TENET. 'Spread LOVE and UNDERSTANDING... But don't be afraid to BLOODY your KNUCKLES DOING it.'") its so bizarre she's murdering what amounts to innocent soldiers so she can...save the lives of the innocent soldiers? I feel like i am missing something
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Jun 19, 2017 21:09
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McCloud posted:Honestly, while I thought it was a good movie, i think it's a bit undeserving of all the praise it get. Part of me wonders if it's due to it starring the first female superhero (yes I know about catwoman and electra, shut up). This is not a bad thing mind, as I realise that Wonder woman has a symbolic value for a lot of women, and I am thrilled they got a hero that inspires them. Diana did not do anything to save 'innocent soldiers.' She heard about how a town had been captured and the people there were effectively being held as slaves. She went to save the townspeople, not soldiers. It's an intentional parallel to how her own people were enslaved and that is in fact exactly what sets her off.
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Jun 19, 2017 21:39
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I think she followed what she assumed was a good person who provided the only frame of reference to what was going on and his own value proved uimself versus everything else. If German Von German said "Yah we is going to gas za world." The Amazons would be "Uuuuhhh."
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Jun 19, 2017 21:44
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Sir Kodiak posted:Where's "if they accept Christ" in this? "It isn't about deserve. It's about what you believe."
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Jun 19, 2017 21:49
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Toady posted:"It isn't about deserve. It's about what you believe." Unless I'm misremembering, that was Steve saying that he was willing to sacrifice himself because he believed in love. Which is a totally different thing than "they may be born sinners, but they'll be saved if they accept Christ." The people weren't saved because they believed in Christ, or because they believed anything at all, but because of what Steve and Diana believed in.
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Jun 19, 2017 21:55
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Sir Kodiak posted:Unless I'm misremembering, that was Steve saying that he was willing to sacrifice himself because he believed in love. Which is a totally different thing than "they may be born sinners, but they'll be saved if they accept Christ." The people weren't saved because they believed in Christ, or because they believed anything at all, but because of what Steve and Diana believed in. The line "It isn't about deserve—it's about what you believe" is a paraphrase of Ephesians 2:8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:13
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Toady posted:The line "It isn't about deserve—it's about what you believe" is a paraphrase of Ephesians 2:8-9: Diana isn't saved by her beliefs. Steve is explaining his sacrifice as the result of him putting his beliefs into action. There's nothing in Wonder Woman, either the quote or the movie, of one being saved through the possession of faith, as described in Ephesians 2:8-9.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:47
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ImpAtom posted:Diana did not do anything to save 'innocent soldiers.' She heard about how a town had been captured and the people there were effectively being held as slaves. She went to save the townspeople, not soldiers. It's an intentional parallel to how her own people were enslaved and that is in fact exactly what sets her off. I did not consider the parallel there, good catch. However her entire reason for leaving Paradise Island is to save mankind from Ares. She sees them as under the influence of a god and that they are good people deep down, and still she kills them. That's a bit..unsettling.
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Jun 20, 2017 00:15
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I think the point of making the Brit the big baddie was to just reinforce the idea that all of humanity has evil inside of it. Steve says at the beginning on the island "I'm a good guy, they're the bad guys" when the Germans are landing. Later, when leaving on the boat Diana says that once she kills Ares the Germans will be free from his influence and will go back to being good again. Chief later tells her that it was Steve's people that took his people's land and left them with nothing during the last war. Maybe the good guys aren't so good after all. Also, I saw it a second time and I picked up a few spots where people talk and "deserving" and belief. When they teat is toasting around the campfire the say "may we get what we want, what we need, but never what we deserve" and on the journey to the gala when Steve is telling them about Diana and Themyscira, Chief says "I think it's true. I believe it's true." I suppose that ties into the concept of faith as all that matters is belief.
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Jun 20, 2017 00:41
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Looking very familiar there Zeus
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Jun 20, 2017 01:01
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Sir Kodiak posted:Diana isn't saved by her beliefs. Steve is explaining his sacrifice as the result of him putting his beliefs into action. There's nothing in Wonder Woman, either the quote or the movie, of one being saved through the possession of faith, as described in Ephesians 2:8-9. Steve is telling her it doesn't matter what people deserve for their actions because mankind is inherently depraved, and the only way to Heaven is through Him ("it's about what you believe"). He confesses "we're all to blame," making his self-sacrifice an act of redemption that teaches Diana that humans don't deserve her protection or wrath. Her worldview is significantly altered: quote:I used to want to save the world. To end war and bring peace to mankind. But then I glimpsed the darkness that lives within their minds. I learned that inside every one of them, there will always be both. A choice each must make for themselves, something no hero will ever defeat. And now I know that only love can truly save the world. The subsequent line that her mission is to stay and fight reveals the conclusion of the film's critique. As the Godkiller, she's no longer invested in the salvation of humans and is itchin' to kill rival gods from other worlds. Toady fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 01:14
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Toady posted:Mankind is inherently depraved, and the only way to Heaven is through Him ("it's about what you believe"). How do you get from "it's about what you believe" to "the only way to Heaven is through Him"? Those don't mean the same thing at all. The Bible is not subtle about what you're supposed to believe. It does not advocate that everyone needs to make their own choice about what they believe.
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Jun 20, 2017 01:21
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Sir Kodiak posted:How do you get from "it's about what you believe" to "the only way to Heaven is through Him"? Those don't mean the same thing at all. The Bible is not subtle about what you're supposed to believe. It does not advocate that everyone needs to make their own choice about what they believe. I'm not sure what you're confused about. The "it" Steve is referring to is redemption. He tells her it won't come through killing a bad guy but through faith. He demonstrates God's love by accepting mankind's guilt and sacrificing himself (Romans 5:8, John 4:8). Wonder Woman adopts a Calvinist disinterest in evangelizing to these people because they're gonna do what they're gonna do. She wants to go fight other gods.
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Jun 20, 2017 01:46
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gently caress off with the christianity in a movie about the Greek/Roman pantheon.
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Jun 20, 2017 01:57
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Aaaaand another thread rendered unreadable by patented CineD bullshit. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 20, 2017 02:00
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Toady posted:The "it" Steve is referring to is redemption. Nope. He's talking about acting in accordance with your beliefs. Diana Prince: "It's about what you believe. And I believe in love. Only love will truly save the world." Diana Prince: "I used to want to save the world, to end war and bring peace to mankind. But then I glimpsed the darkness that lives within their light. I learnt that inside every one of them there will always be both. The choice each must make for themselves - something no hero will ever defeat. And now I know... that only love can truly save the world. So now I stay, I fight, and I give - for the world I know can be. This is my mission now, forever." It's not an issue of finding redemption. It's about the actual, practical mechanism for making the world a better place. This is totally in contrast to the idea of salvation through faith, "not by works, so that no one can boast."
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Jun 20, 2017 02:03
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