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Fister Roboto posted:Three days into the expansion and I've already been kicked from a party for not having enough HP as a tank. Great change SE, tanks doing too much damage really needed fixing. I mean, were you dying to a pull or a boss, or did they look at your HP and just decide you should have more? Not enough detail here for anyone to honestly comment.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:18
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I wonder if the dude with the bad attitude actually gets kicked for a reason besides his HP.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:19
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Exmond posted:Whats with your AV? Someone got mad that I told people to stop spazzing out about the first two days of early access being rocky.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:20
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Die Sexmonster! posted:I mean, were you dying to a pull or a boss, or did they look at your HP and just decide you should have more? Not enough detail here for anyone to honestly comment. We made it past the first boss, and I died on the a trash pull. I was only pulling two packs at a time, so nothing too crazy. The white mage did zero dps, and one of the bards never used his songs. After the wipe the healer called me a retard for being undergeared and then they kicked me. Let me tell you it's really cool seeing people dogpile me for getting treated lovely by pubbies.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:22
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I once had a tank kick herself because she entered Dusk Vigil with less than 5k hp and didn't realize it was a problem until the first pull disintegrated her. We pointed her to the gear vendors in Ishgard and she thanked us profusely before leaving. That's my tank hp story, ty
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Jun 19, 2017 22:23
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Fister Roboto posted:We made it past the first boss, and I died on the a trash pull. I was only pulling two packs at a time, so nothing too crazy. The white mage did zero dps, and one of the bards never used his songs. After the wipe the healer called me a retard for being undergeared and then they kicked me. Yeah, I'm sure if tank damage used VIT then they would've been totally understanding and wouldn't have kicked you for some other idiotic reason.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:24
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Yeah I recall a few times where the lack of a min ilvl in HW leveling dungeons caused serious problems but it usually only showed up on second classes because the HW story just handed you good enough gear.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:24
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Ciaphas posted:I'm trying to remember ARR, did Gaius ever commit any atrocities or ala mhigo-style brutal occupation, beyond expansionist aggression at the behest of Garlemald He was very big on will to power and loved chewing the gently caress out of the scenery any time he got the chance to talk about it, but other than that he was probably the sanest Garlean leader we have encountered. Total control, but of actual living and productive subjects rather than a charred hole in the ground or riled-up angry people.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:25
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Thank you for reminding me that I'm still wearing i115 gear on my level 58 rdm and I should do something about it before I try running something that isn't potd
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Jun 19, 2017 22:26
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The tank HP issue that Fister is talking about isn't a problem with too low HP. The later dungeons starting from 65 are much more punishing to healers who are bad, and this is the result of that.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:27
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My first time through the level 61 dungeon I got a multipulling speedrun tank, which was an extremely fun experience and I wish I got that for the level 63, 65, and 67 dungeons too.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:28
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You said the healer didn't do any dps; was he also not healing, or did you have an honest healer and still die?
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Jun 19, 2017 22:29
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Fister Roboto posted:Let me tell you it's really cool seeing people dogpile me for getting treated lovely by pubbies. Come on man, dogpiled? It's three posters, and one of them is Mord. They don't even count as human. (Source: they logged into FC chat on Sunday and mocked people for trying to do the MSQ. "lol @ everyone who spammed Raubahn" IIRC. gently caress off) Ainsley McTree posted:You said the healer didn't do any dps; was he also not healing, or did you have an honest healer and still die? Honest healers often don't understand how to do that well, either. Just did Susano with a SCH who spammed Physick.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:30
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I really hope one of the 4.x dungeons is a hard mode of the level 65 dungeon where all the bosses are the people you fight in the Azim Steppes solo instance
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Jun 19, 2017 22:31
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vOv posted:Yeah, I'm sure if tank damage used VIT then they would've been totally understanding and wouldn't have kicked you for some other idiotic reason. When tank AP was STR/VIT this was never a problem though. Before that change, I would do dungeons in DF in STR gear, and sometimes people would look at my HP and say "wow he must be an undergeared trash scrub, let's kick him" Die Sexmonster! posted:Come on man, dogpiled? It's three posters, and one of them is Mord. They don't even count as human. (Source: they logged into FC chat on Sunday and mocked people for trying to do the MSQ. "lol @ everyone who spammed Raubahn" IIRC. gently caress off) Yeah you're right, I'm just in a lovely mood right now. also lol
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Jun 19, 2017 22:32
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susano hm also feels like it'd be rough if you had two shittacular healers; stormblood feels in general a lot less forgiving of bad healer play even outside of raid content.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:33
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Ainsley McTree posted:You said the healer didn't do any dps; was he also not healing, or did you have an honest healer and still die? oh, we have such sights to show you
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Jun 19, 2017 22:37
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I've gotten kicked as a tank by a bad 3-man group before. I cared for maybe ten seconds before I instant queued back into the dungeon with a better group.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:38
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Reiterpallasch posted:susano hm also feels like it'd be rough if you had two shittacular healers; stormblood feels in general a lot less forgiving of bad healer play even outside of raid content. This is probably intentional since healers spent most of HW doing other poo poo besides heal.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:41
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Ainsley McTree posted:I literally don't remember who any of the garleans are or what they did after the backseat they took in pretty much all of heavensward so I hope stormblood reminds me I couldn't remember who van Baelsar was until MSQDR happened to give me Praetorium today.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:43
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The talk of healers having to bring at least their A-minus healing game makes me want to do AST after I finish the MSQ with RDM, instead of another DPS or PLD My indecisiveness will literally kill me one of these days But for real even though I was a dishonest healer, I never really liked it. Can't say whether that was down to Cleric Stance or just disliking the idea, though.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:44
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that just makes the skill gap worse though--in heavensward non-savage content, the difference between good healers and bad healers was just in clear speed. in stormblood so far, it's looking like bad healers will just wipe you, repeatedly, mercilessly, and there's nothing the other 75% of the party can do about it
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Jun 19, 2017 22:45
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Lemon-Lime posted:I couldn't remember who van Baelsar was until MSQDR happened to give me Praetorium today. Side note, the expansion and Heavensward had some great music but I still haven't heard anything that beats Penitus (the Praetorium theme), fight me if you disagree
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Jun 19, 2017 22:46
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Fister Roboto posted:We made it past the first boss, and I died on the a trash pull. I was only pulling two packs at a time, so nothing too crazy. The white mage did zero dps, and one of the bards never used his songs. After the wipe the healer called me a retard for being undergeared and then they kicked me. FWIW I got healer sass and an attempted vote kick for dying to trash as a tank in the spooky boat dungeon when in reality the machinist was entirely afk and never said anything. poo poo didn't die fast enough, I'm wearing full 270 vit poo poo - more HP wouldn't have helped. It sucks and I wish people were less lovely to random strangers. I don't think fighting an uphill battle against itemization is going the make your experience any better going forward, though.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:46
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Ciaphas posted:But for real even though I was a dishonest healer, I never really liked it. Can't say whether that was down to Cleric Stance or just disliking the idea, though. Except SB actively encourages good healers to DPS even more and optimize DPS like crazy due to the lack of cleric stance.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:47
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ntan1 posted:Except SB actively encourages good healers to DPS even more and optimize DPS like crazy due to the lack of cleric stance. I haven't personally seen it yet, but from thread talk it sounds like the difficulty of content and the amount of damage going out disincentivizes most healer DPS?
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Jun 19, 2017 22:48
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time to check in on hoary boulder and co...
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Jun 19, 2017 22:49
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i was a str tank in 2.55 and i was not kicked once for it have you considered their side, that your deliberate choices were effecting three other people's ability to complete content? i'm sorry they called you a mean name (no I'm not because you're actually just a raging rear end in a top hat until you decide to gripe about how the fact you being a huge rear end in a top hat has consequences, at which point you transform into a parody of insecurity that would make OF posters cringe) but the only lovely thing the pubbies did was insult you. do you think we'd be on the tank's side if someone came in here about a poorly geared tank wiping the group? it's easy to internally decide 'I'll have worse hp and hit harder' when you're not the person who has to deal with the difficulty that decision creates. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 22:50
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Ciaphas posted:I haven't personally seen it yet, but from thread talk it sounds like the difficulty of content and the amount of damage going out disincentivizes most healer DPS? i had no trouble whatsoever solo healing susano hm on scholar, and scholar is not very good at solo healing. the problem is that the chasm between "okay healing" and "awful healing" is extremely wide in ff14, more so than any other role.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:54
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ntan1 posted:Except SB actively encourages good healers to DPS even more and optimize DPS like crazy due to the lack of cleric stance. Unless you get one of these poo poo-tiers as your healing support, then you gotta work twice as hard!  Still managed to keep Aero up 
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Jun 19, 2017 22:55
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like, a bad tank will at least spam flash until they're out of mana and then at least pretend to press 1-2-3 against a mob. bad healers don't ride their gcd, don't hit healing buttons until the tank/raid is almost dead, and blow their whole load on overheal once they do. a good dps is going to find it extremely challenging to do the work of two even quite dire dps, but a good healer is absolutely worth way more than 2 bad healers
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Jun 19, 2017 22:57
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In that case I'll probably switch to AST at some point out of sheer loving frustration rather than a chance to strut 
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Jun 19, 2017 22:58
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i was a str tank in 2.55 and i was not kicked once for it not that he isn't a bad poster, but do you actually think an extra 4000 hp or so of cushion matters at all in an environment where the tank is taking 10k+ per gcd? in a multi-pull, either heals are coming in fast enough to keep the tank afloat or they're not and the tank's dead.
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Jun 19, 2017 23:01
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Healing isn't even halfway reliant on the healers themselves. If people are taking loads of avoidable damage it all adds up, even if it doesn't kill someone.
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Jun 19, 2017 23:02
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I eventually decided to level through SB as a ninja and once that's 70 go back to AST because it's far easier to level a healer via instant dungeon queues than a dps with its 40 minute queue. AST dps is a loving mp hog anyway. Raubahn's duty showed me that. I found myself actively looking for ewers...
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Jun 19, 2017 23:02
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Ciaphas posted:I haven't personally seen it yet, but from thread talk it sounds like the difficulty of content and the amount of damage going out disincentivizes most healer DPS? That's quite the wrong conclusion. An increase in difficulty of content should be an incentive for people to be good at the game. This means playing your healing class to the best of its capability. All of the good healers will manage to both heal chain pulls, while DPSing at the same time. Essentially, bad healers will continue to be bad, and good healers will be good or even insanely good. strong bird posted:Healing isn't even halfway reliant on the healers themselves. If people are taking loads of avoidable damage it all adds up, even if it doesn't kill someone. It is, up until the total damage exceeds the throughput of a healer. ntan1 fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 23:02
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If you're getting angry at healers not doing damage in brand new content you're a big fucktard imqho
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Jun 19, 2017 23:04
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Shere posted:FWIW I got healer sass and an attempted vote kick for dying to trash as a tank in the spooky boat dungeon when in reality the machinist was entirely afk and never said anything. poo poo didn't die fast enough, I'm wearing full 270 vit poo poo - more HP wouldn't have helped. It sucks and I wish people were less lovely to random strangers. Yeah I mean I wasn't there and I don't know how bad these other players were, so I don't want to make excuses for this healer, but considering that you were a str-wearing tank pulling more trash than the healer could deal with, I feel like having the attitude of "actually I'm playing optimally and it is you that needs to get on my level" upon wiping is just a great way to get kicked by more pubbies in the future instead of just slowing down and chilling out a bit when you're doing random queues
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Jun 19, 2017 23:07
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strong bird posted:If you're getting angry at healers not doing damage in brand new content you're a big fucktard imqho yeah, they need a change to learn the fight before they know when it's safe to enter Cleric...Stance... hmm.
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Jun 19, 2017 23:07
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Fister Roboto posted:
i mean, it says something that people in this thread are willing to side with pubbies over you
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Jun 19, 2017 23:07
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