NBA Draft 2017: It's not "my pick."

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > NBA Draft 2017: It's not "my pick."

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Yeah, the Pelicans just traded assets to get Cousins to put next to Davis, no chance in the hell that they rebuild without giving that pair a full season together

# ? Jun 19, 2017 21:33

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# ? May 13, 2024 00:40

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Bush Did Outer Heaven posted:

Kurucs withdrew from the draft, Hawks U will have to find another amorphous wing to be their next enrollee.

Ah that makes sense.

Adun posted:

I feel like you forgot about Frank Jackson

I did.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 21:39

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

If the Pelicans want Galloway back they can have him for a second

# ? Jun 19, 2017 22:55

rabidsquid: Oct 11, 2004; LOVES THE KOG

apparently according to sam amico the lakers are looking to trade for the pistons pick. on the one hand svg seems to not know what he's doing in the draft, on the other hand what could this trade possibly be for that would be better than taking a swing at somebody who might slip to the late lottery

# ? Jun 19, 2017 23:39

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

rabidsquid posted:

apparently according to sam amico the lakers are looking to trade for the pistons pick. on the one hand svg seems to not know what he's doing in the draft, on the other hand what could this trade possibly be for that would be better than taking a swing at somebody who might slip to the late lottery

Jordan Clarkson buyers remorse?

# ? Jun 20, 2017 00:08

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

Is there something wrong with Clarkson other than his development plateaued before people expected?

# ? Jun 20, 2017 00:52

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

WhyteRyce posted:

Is there something wrong with Clarkson other than his development plateaued before people expected?

He is getting to the line less each year, and has a sinking PER and WS/48. I don't think he is a bad player or anything, but if he isn't getting any better then you're probably better off spending $12 mil a year on a veteran instead.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 00:59

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

He got Byron Scott disease but no, nothing wrong with him, he's on a relatively affordable contract too: that makes him the Lakers best tradeable asset. Throw in that that his value probably won't ever be higher considering it looks like the Lakers are going to draft someone who's going to eat into his minutes.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 01:01

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

Ainge is trading down to stockpile assets and to keep himself from reaching for Jackson or Tatum. Tatum is more ready to contribute now but Jackson might end up as the best player in this draft.

Realistically it just keeps anyone from ever actually evaluating how he's doing as a GM because he can keep pointing towards the future. It's a good deal for both sides in theory but I just don't know when the Celtics are going to stop stockpiling assets and actually start trying to build a contender. Like, you earned the first seed in the East, it's time to actually formulate a plan and stop hoping you end up with the first five picks in 2023

# ? Jun 20, 2017 04:02

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

Is Jackson basically a better Gerald Wallace? From how you guys talk about him it sounds like it.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 04:04

Dutchy: Jul 8, 2010

Declan MacManus posted:

Ainge is trading down to stockpile assets and to keep himself from reaching for Jackson or Tatum. Tatum is more ready to contribute now but Jackson might end up as the best player in this draft.

Realistically it just keeps anyone from ever actually evaluating how he's doing as a GM because he can keep pointing towards the future. It's a good deal for both sides in theory but I just don't know when the Celtics are going to stop stockpiling assets and actually start trying to build a contender. Like, you earned the first seed in the East, it's time to actually formulate a plan and stop hoping you end up with the first five picks in 2023

now that the process works apparently it's time for 50 win teams to start emulating it

# ? Jun 20, 2017 04:05

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Is Jackson basically a better Gerald Wallace? From how you guys talk about him it sounds like it.

Yeah kind of lol he's a lot smoother though

# ? Jun 20, 2017 04:59

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Is Jackson basically a better Gerald Wallace? From how you guys talk about him it sounds like it.

None of us know anything.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 05:15

rabidsquid: Oct 11, 2004; LOVES THE KOG

Chad Ford is insinuating the Lakers are dangling Russell and are interested in Kennard or Zach Collins. i know Collins is a bit divisive and the Pistons are "loaded" (lmao) at the F/C spot but man i would love to get something in the event of another team jumping on the Kennard grenade for SVG

edit: also theres a lakers fan having a meltdown in the mentions of the tweet where Ford said this: https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/876996442434535424

# ? Jun 20, 2017 05:23

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

https://twitter.com/Klow7/status/876994346859593729

# ? Jun 20, 2017 05:36

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

rabidsquid posted:

Chad Ford is insinuating the Lakers are dangling Russell and are interested in Kennard or Zach Collins. i know Collins is a bit divisive and the Pistons are "loaded" (lmao) at the F/C spot but man i would love to get something in the event of another team jumping on the Kennard grenade for SVG

edit: also theres a lakers fan having a meltdown in the mentions of the tweet where Ford said this: https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/876996442434535424

All of the Lakers reporters are basically mocking the hell out of Chad Ford over this one

# ? Jun 20, 2017 05:41

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

rabidsquid posted:

Chad Ford is insinuating the Lakers are dangling Russell and are interested in Kennard or Zach Collins. i know Collins is a bit divisive and the Pistons are "loaded" (lmao) at the F/C spot but man i would love to get something in the event of another team jumping on the Kennard grenade for SVG

edit: also theres a lakers fan having a meltdown in the mentions of the tweet where Ford said this: https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/876996442434535424

Kennard for D'angelo Russel would be such a loving steal both in raw talent terms and team construction.
They don't have to worry about Reggie and his destroyed knees, Ish can take his natural place as a dynamic third pg who cannot make a shot, and they have their long term pg, who makes shots off the dribble, and opens up everything for Drummond, for Pope, for Jonny Leueur in the corner. He might be a bit slow and a snitch but oh my gorsh it takes pistons from ehh maybe playoff team to a hey this team might have some upside team.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 06:24

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Dejan Bimble posted:

Kennard for D'angelo Russel would be such a loving steal both in raw talent terms and team construction.
They don't have to worry about Reggie and his destroyed knees, Ish can take his natural place as a dynamic third pg who cannot make a shot, and they have their long term pg, who makes shots off the dribble, and opens up everything for Drummond, for Pope, for Jonny Leueur in the corner. He might be a bit slow and a snitch but oh my gorsh it takes pistons from ehh maybe playoff team to a hey this team might have some upside team.

It's an even worse deal if that dude is Collins since he's major project that they don't have the minutes to develop. I've seen a lot floating around the past 24 hours that he's KAT 2.0 and I'm just laughing. Where do people get these ideas from?

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Is Jackson basically a better Gerald Wallace? From how you guys talk about him it sounds like it.

He's the best slasher and finisher prospect in like a good ten years. The problem is those players have never been more out of favor or struggled more. The question is, can a player who has a bigger toolbox of moves in the paint than guys Winslow or Stanley Johnson

If it was the 00s he would be the first pick without any hesitation.

Dutchy posted:

now that the process works apparently it's time for 50 win teams to start emulating it

Well, the fact that half the second round is basically five teams this year might be a sign that teams are trying to, but just kind of missing the point.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 07:08

Deadbeat Dad: Jun 3, 2005; the trad games jinho

This is going to be one of those nutso offseasons that happen every few years eh

Anyway, the Magic had a press conference today. Sounds like Weltman may want to trade a second rounder. Apparently we've also been tied to Mitchell/Kennard (but who isn't), I can see the Magic packaging a player like Fournier or Vuc + 25 + 35 for a pick 12-16 and a contract in attempt to move up.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 11:55

tanglewood1420: Oct 28, 2010; The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized

Deadbeat Dad posted:

This is going to be one of those nutso offseasons that happen every few years eh

Every few years? When was the last non-nutso offseason?

2016 - Durant, Wade
2015 - DeAndre Jordan and Capapalooza
2014 - Lebron, Wiggins-Love trade

# ? Jun 20, 2017 13:07

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Yeah last offseason had a 7 game finals that lead right into Durant mania

The draft was sober tho until draft night which was fun

# ? Jun 20, 2017 13:10

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

Alright who gave him a promise
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/877142538360168448

# ? Jun 20, 2017 14:13

pubic works project: Jan 28, 2005; No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

WhyteRyce posted:

Alright who gave him a promise
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/877142538360168448

Probably the Pacers

# ? Jun 20, 2017 14:26

morestuff: Aug 2, 2008; You can't stop what's coming

WhyteRice, do you buy the consensus forming to Sacramento will take Collins at 10? I know they're not exactly franchise cornerstones but between WCS, Skal and Papa I figured they'd be maxed out on young bigs

# ? Jun 20, 2017 16:25

dokmo: Aug 27, 2006; man

https://cleaningtheglass.com/a-roll-of-the-dice-part-1/

quote:

A variety of factors conspire to make it almost impossible to judge the ability of talent evaluators from the outside.

The biggest impediment is that with draft decisions the samples are small and the time horizons long. Let’s say there’s one team who really has an eye for talent, and they have a 70% chance each draft of getting their first round pick right (however you define “right”), while another team is very poor at scouting the draft, and only has a 30% chance of getting their first rounder correct each year. Even over the course of three drafts, the clueless front office still has a 1 in 4 chance of matching or exceeding the performance of the expert front office! There just aren’t enough drafts for the typical decision maker to build up a sample of work that would mitigate the role of luck.

One example of this kind of luck: a team can get a draft pick correct, but for the wrong reasons. It was reported that, as GM of the Atlanta Hawks in 2007, Billy Knight wanted to select Al Horford (at least in part) because of the size of Horford’s butt. Horford, of course, has turned into a very good selection. But if that pick was made for a reason that seems tangential (if not completely unrelated) to Horford’s success, then that doesn’t make the person who selected him a “wizard”.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 16:50

Kibner: Oct 21, 2008; Acguy Supremacy

Another forum I post on is having a draft contest for $100 prize money with no buy in. Would anyone be interested in a link?

# ? Jun 20, 2017 17:01

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Butt size should be a draft measurable though. Along with hair height.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 17:18

morestuff: Aug 2, 2008; You can't stop what's coming

dokmo posted:

https://cleaningtheglass.com/a-roll-of-the-dice-part-1/

How much weight do you put on player development in all this? It's the most obvious reason I can think of for teams like the Spurs that "draft well," but at the same time as an outsider it's kind of hard to suss out what exactly they're doing differently. Best guess is some combo of excellent coaching and a consistent roster letting them to draft with fit as the biggest question mark.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 17:20

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

morestuff posted:

WhyteRice, do you buy the consensus forming to Sacramento will take Collins at 10? I know they're not exactly franchise cornerstones but between WCS, Skal and Papa I figured they'd be maxed out on young bigs

I don't and I haven't seen anything in the local media indicating the Kings are leaning this way. I assume it's just because Collins is the last one off the board from that tier. Unfortunately I haven't seen or heard anything indicating what the Kings will do at #10 so I assume it's just cleaning up whatever the other teams leave on the board. We did just waive Tolliver so maybe Vlade thinks there is another 15mpg that can be shuffled around

# ? Jun 20, 2017 17:28

Khagan: Aug 8, 2012; Words cannot describe just how terrible Vietnamese are.

Steven A Smith is having a meltdown over rumours Knicks are considering offers for Porzingis. My have we come full circle.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 17:57

pubic works project: Jan 28, 2005; No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

Khagan posted:

Steven A Smith is having a meltdown over rumours Knicks are considering offers for Porzingis. My have we come full circle.

When doesn't Stephen A have a meltdown?

# ? Jun 20, 2017 18:27

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

pubic works project posted:

When doesn't Stephen A have a meltdown?

Maybe the offer is for Crab Rangoon

# ? Jun 20, 2017 18:46

AsInHowe: Jan 11, 2007; red winged angel

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Maybe the offer is for Crab Rangoon

Preposterous

# ? Jun 20, 2017 19:42

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

Chad Ford's "best picks for every team" mock fits what people in this thead have been saying a lot more than the mocks trying to reflect team choices. I wonder what that means

morestuff posted:

How much weight do you put on player development in all this? It's the most obvious reason I can think of for teams like the Spurs that "draft well," but at the same time as an outsider it's kind of hard to suss out what exactly they're doing differently. Best guess is some combo of excellent coaching and a consistent roster letting them to draft with fit as the biggest question mark.

The most visionary and intense leader can only lead the men he has. However, if you get good people and have the right culture and leadership, it's much more likely for their cumulative efforts to result in something good rather than something bad.

There are wide swathes of draft where the Spurs found no diamond in the rough. You can say Duncan came as a good luck result of wise tanking, Parker and Ginobli came because the team had a more developed international presence than other teams. Those gaps are in large degree closed. So they have the best shooting coach. Or do they have a good shooting coach and an eye for players who will accept coaching, and run offenses that put baby bird three point shooters into the easiest position (wide open in the corner) so that they can gain confidence in new mechanics?

There's so much intangible poo poo.
Once you get past adjusted college stats, physical measurements, you're relying on your assessment of a player as a person and as a collection of talents, and perhaps imagining what they someday could be. Then there's work with individual development coaches and work with trainers. Even then, players need to put in a position to succeed, it's a team, the team is a team, the coaches work as a team, the front office works as a team.

Can you look into the depths of a man's soul by watching college games, having a workout, and then speaking to him face to face, and know he's going to add more to his game, adjust to adjustments, and not let becoming a millionaire gently caress up the drive that brought him to that position?

Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe maybe

All they can do is stack up their collected wisdom and reach into the sack, hopefully come out with the right man in their grasp.

Kawhi Leonard's hands are loving huge

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 20, 2017

# ? Jun 20, 2017 19:54

Paul Zuvella: Dec 7, 2011

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Maybe the offer is for Crab Rangoon

That's preposterous. Cream Cheese, Crab, things of that nature.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 20:16

ButtWolf: Dec 30, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Kibner posted:

Another forum I post on is having a draft contest for $100 prize money with no buy in. Would anyone be interested in a link?

yes. Im usually pretty accurate and am poor.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 23:31

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Lakers are definitely taking Ball.

quote:

The Los Angeles Lakers are trading D'Angelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov to the Brooklyn Nets for Brook Lopez and the 27th overall pick in Thursday's NBA draft, sources told ESPN's Ramona Shelburne.

# ? Jun 21, 2017 00:25

rabidsquid: Oct 11, 2004; LOVES THE KOG

rest in peace Detroit, drafting Luke Kennard and running out the five white guy rotation

# ? Jun 21, 2017 00:27

morestuff: Aug 2, 2008; You can't stop what's coming

rabidsquid posted:

rest in peace Detroit, drafting Luke Kennard and running out the five white guy rotation

Not if Charlotte beats them to it. Kennard/Marco/Frank/Zeller/Plumlee Whiteout! Unit

# ? Jun 21, 2017 01:20

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# ? May 13, 2024 00:40

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Wight Howard definitely still counts.

# ? Jun 21, 2017 02:11

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