|
Yeah, it has nothing to do with "skill level" (as if your profession were a video game.). The floors and ceilings here have very little to do with how progressed you are down a mythical mastery tree.
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
Jaxyon posted:100% this. I am not doing a fraction of the good to society that a decent bus driver is. Not to mention that they are generally wonderful people who have made my life easier many times before. I am sure that BART or whatever it was sees fit to pay them that much for a good reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
The Wiggly Wizard posted:I drove charters in Sacramento too, but I guess I'm just No True Busman Obviously no, you are the expert. quote:That's not my argument. I'm saying that my previous 3 years of Honda Civic experience isn't the same as apprenticing as an electrician for the same amount of time. Sure, definitely. Their (okay, our) argument is that other things should effect the price of skilled labor besides the rarity and apparent-cost-of-acquisition of the skills. And I'd add, there is a higher cap to driving skills than may be obvious: professional driving gives you many more miles of experience than just a regular commute, and I imagine having your livelihood on the line focused your attention pretty well? And then there's racecar people but that's an extreme - and extremely different - example. In my experience so far, people in SF tend to think that their city is the best, and that there's a ton of money in it, so every public good which isn't correspondingly hugely funded and made the best is an insult. The left/right disagreements are often just over whether public or private solutions would be best.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:48
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:In my experience so far, people in SF tend to think that their city is the best  (e: to be clear, this is at those people)
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 03:13
|
|
|
Also keep in mind that a person with a class B license is held to a higher standard- they get 1.5x as many points for moving violations, and that is even if it occurred when they were in a regular Honda Civic when it happened. A DWI is a 3month suspension, and a DUI a 1 year suspension which also stays on your record for 10 years, pretty much a career killer. A DUI on a Class B is also at .04% BAC, not .08%. And infractions involving a commercial passenger vehicle impose fines that are based on the number of passengers on board. This probably sounds reasonable, but the operator better hope the CHP officer that nails him isn't particularly petty and slaps a $2,500+ fine for not making a "complete" (2+ seconds) stop at a railroad crossing, or inadvertently inching forward a tiny bit when a school bus has its red lights flashing at the time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:Their (okay, our) argument is that other things should effect the price of skilled labor besides the rarity and apparent-cost-of-acquisition of the skills. Panfilo posted:This probably sounds reasonable, but the operator better hope the CHP officer that nails him isn't particularly petty and slaps a $2,500+ fine for not making a "complete" (2+ seconds) stop at a railroad crossing, or inadvertently inching forward a tiny bit when a school bus has its red lights flashing at the time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 03:27
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:And what, exactly, should those other things be? And how proportionately large an effect are you talking about. I really don't like your use of "should" there, mainly because it implies that we have to come up with a list of things to affect the price of skilled labor besides rarity and cost of aquisition when the example already given (learning how to program) is already WAY out of line with those things. Make your own arguments. Don't fish for us to do it for you.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 03:39
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I want to hear more about this mythical CHP officer who is ticketing city busses for minor traffic infractions absent a serious threat to public safety. Yeah that's not what that post said. Go back and read it again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 04:17
|
|
|
Duckbag posted:Yeah that's not what that post said. Go back and read it again. Panfilo posted:And infractions involving a commercial passenger vehicle impose fines that are based on the number of passengers on board. This probably sounds reasonable, but the operator better hope the CHP officer that nails him isn't particularly petty and slaps a $2,500+ fine for not making a "complete" (2+ seconds) stop at a railroad crossing, or inadvertently inching forward a tiny bit when a school bus has its red lights flashing at the time. Otherwise the $2,500 California roll handwringing doesn't make sense.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 04:26
|
|
|
Cup Runneth Over posted:I literally couldn't give a poo poo how long their training is. My job training was 2 weeks too, and I'm a techbro, so it's just assumed that I have a valuable skill that deserves loads of money. Bus driving is an unpleasant, unrewarding job that most people do not want to do and it deserves comfortable pay and good benefits -- not just a living wage. Ok cool I agree with you. All I was saying is that bus driving isn't the ancient Chinese secret that people in this thread were making it out to be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I want to hear more about this mythical CHP officer who is ticketing city busses for minor traffic infractions absent a serious threat to public safety. http://www.ocregister.com/2015/06/20/chp-imposes-ticket-quotas-veteran-officer-tells-court/ The Wiggly Wizard posted:Ok cool I agree with you. Awesome. Glad we can agree.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 05:54
|
|
|
Cup Runneth Over posted:http://www.ocregister.com/2015/06/20/chp-imposes-ticket-quotas-veteran-officer-tells-court/ Did you think I wouldn't read the link? Pulling over a bus is 100% likely to start a pissing match with the city transit authority (again, barring some impossible-to-ignore hazard to public safety) and will certainly involve a court appearance, because people with CDLs take their driving record Very Seriously. It's basically a zero upside proposition for the cop, to the extent that I would be surprised if it has happened at all in recent memory.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 06:25
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Did you think I wouldn't read the link? Good Christ you're impossibly smarmy. I posted the link as proof that CHP officers have incentive to ticket people for minor infractions. Whatever mythical hypotheticals you invent to explain why they wouldn't do that to a city bus are your own problem.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 07:27
|
|
|
My contention was that it was absurd for a city bus driver to worry about receiving a ruinously expensive ticket (absent obvious speeding or some larger threat to public safety) after being pulled over by the CHP for a minor infraction while driving their bus, and that Panfilo's hand-wringing was ridiculous on multiple levels. Your rebuttal to this is apparently, "the CHP has incentives to write citations for minor traffic infractions", which manages to be completely irrelevant to the whole "city bus" thing which was the entire point of the conversation related to the difficulties of being a city bus driver.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Pulling over a bus You don't read very well, do you? Panfilo posted:Also keep in mind that a person with a class B license is held to a higher standard- they get 1.5x as many points for moving violations, and that is even if it occurred when they were in a regular Honda Civic when it happened. Panfilo's contention is that they can get hosed over while driving their personal vehicles. It's in the first line of what you quoted when you decided to go tilting at windmills or whatever the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 05:26
|
|
|
Grand Prize Winner posted:You don't read very well, do you?  It's 100% clear in the sentence I quoted that he's talking about a driver operating a commercial vehicle with passengers. Panfilo posted:And infractions involving a commercial passenger vehicle impose fines that are based on the number of passengers on board. This probably sounds reasonable, but the operator better hope the CHP officer that nails him isn't particularly petty and slaps a $2,500+ fine for not making a "complete" (2+ seconds) stop at a railroad crossing, or inadvertently inching forward a tiny bit when a school bus has its red lights flashing at the time. The funny part is, you're the second person on this page to manage to self-own while trying for a pointless "can't you read?!" burn.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
oops
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 06:34
|
|
|
I got pulled over driving a bus once. I was dodging trees in a double decker, as we were trained to do. It wasn't a CHP officer though and I didn't get a ticket. It's not hard it imagine it happening over the course of someone's career though. Pulling over a bus makes cops feel big and strong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 06:36
|
|
|
You don't have a defend a job as being technically complex and hard for it to deserve a living wage, and I'll never understand the impulse of so many leftists to reflexively do so. It's fine to admit that some jobs are relatively low-skill, not terribly difficult ones, and that the people doing them should still be guaranteed enough to live dignified, fulfilling lives
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 06:37
|
|
|
People dont choose to be born workaholics or lazy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
themrguy posted:You don't have a defend a job as being technically complex and hard for it to deserve a living wage, and I'll never understand the impulse of so many leftists to reflexively do so. It's fine to admit that some jobs are relatively low-skill, not terribly difficult ones, and that the people doing them should still be guaranteed enough to live dignified, fulfilling lives Thank you for expressing this better than me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 16:38
|
|
|
The Wiggly Wizard posted:I got pulled over driving a bus once. I was dodging trees in a double decker, as we were trained to do. It wasn't a CHP officer though and I didn't get a ticket. I've been in a bus that was pulled over before in California, it totally does happen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2017 17:30
|
|
|
Whelp...
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 05:21
|
|
|
https://speaker.asmdc.org/press-releases/speaker-rendon-statement-health-carequote:Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon (D-Lakewood) released the following statement on health care:
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 05:22
|
|
|
I mean, I see his point, but ugh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
Honestly, it's exactly what I want to hear, because I want something that is going to be workable and viable I the long term.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 06:01
|
|
|
Sorta sounds like he's just waiting for a referendum that will allow the corporate/establishment dems to keep sitting on the fence. I think that's a dangerous and cowardly approach because initiatives are written by advocacy groups, not legislators. We have a better chance of getting ambitious single payer through initiative, but a much worse chance of getting something functional, fundable, or constitutional. Maybe it's just lip service for Brown and the other skeptics, maybe they're hoping the referendum will fail, maybe he really is just delaying a little bit to work out some kinks. Whatever his thinking though, gently caress him for pretending that "single payer" and "ballot initiative" even belong in the same sentence. No one who actually cared about good governance or accountability would ever allow something this complex and important to be punted to the uninformed public and literal special interests.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
speaking of special interests
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 06:51
|
|
|
Not as big as the SB 562 thing, but after Fresno rather solidly voted in favor of Prop 64, the city council here decided to ban recreational marijuana in the city, with two council members going against what their districts voted for to do so. So that's fun. Hopefully will be able to do something about these assholes in the next election. We need to replace the mayor too really; he's not great either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 08:12
|
|
|
It's not like this bill sprang out of nowhere. Mark Leno has been submitting a complete bill many times over and over. Complaining that the bill doesn't have the details you need and then killing it before it gets to the committee responsible for fleshing those details out is such bullshit
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
What a loving liar. The only reason he didn't kill the bill is that Californians would have his head on a goddamn silver platter. We're not going to get poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 15:40
|
|
|
Martin Random posted:It's not like this bill sprang out of nowhere. Mark Leno has been submitting a complete bill many times over and over. Complaining that the bill doesn't have the details you need and then killing it before it gets to the committee responsible for fleshing those details out is such bullshit I mean, the state legislature PASSED single payer when Schwarzenegger was governor. Twice. And he vetoed it both times.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
the fact that it doesnt have any measures for funding or cost control mean its pretty much a useless bill. also its not like CA legislators dont have a history of writing dumbfuck stuff. remember that one marijuana legalization referendum that was so badly put together that even NORML didnt endorse it? paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jun 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 17:09
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:the fact that it doesnt have any measures for funding or cost control mean its pretty much a useless bill. the measures were to be added in at committee
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
I like 562 and I support it, but god drat did they come at it rear end backwards. There's already 4 different UHC bills that have come up in California: Prop 186 in 1994, SB 921 in 2002, SB 840 in 2006 and 2008, SB 810 in 2010 and 2012, and then SB 562 in the current session. There really was no reason to start from scratch on this one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
throwing a bill at the lege and saying "figure out all the important bits because i sure as hell didnt bother" does not inspire a great deal of confidence in me
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
honestly this whole thing seems like both chambers intentionally half assed everything about this bill after it left the senate committee in an attempt to kill it e: which is actually pretty much what happened. no one wanted to go on record as voting scary taxes increases Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jun 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:throwing a bill at the lege and saying "figure out all the important bits because i sure as hell didnt bother" does not inspire a great deal of confidence in me LEGISLATING IS WHAT LEGISLATURES DO. This bill didn't come out of nowhere. You aren't supposed to come down from a mountain and present a complete bill. There's a negotiative process in committee. If it's incomplete after that or there's a substantive reason to kill it, then kill it out of committee on the floor and after the bill has had a chance to get fleshed out. WE'VE PASSED THIS THROUGH AN EVEN MORE CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURE, COMPLETE, and it got vetoed. They are full of poo poo on this and if we were aware of the true procedural methods and fuckery on this we would be in the streets. The premature death of this bill is utter bullshit and examples need to be made of Democrats who will happily kill poo poo in esoteric bullshit ways then claim procedural incapacity when given the opportunity to act finally in substantive poo poo that is ON THEIR STATE PARTY PLATFORM AND THEY HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY AND EVERY ONE OF THEM IS MAKING HAY OFF OF AHCA. these people. Martin Random fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jun 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
Democrats will try to throw the fact that "the legislation wasn't paid for" or other excuses around but the fact is if providing healthcare to the citizens of California were a priority for the dems then they could have found the funds. The state of California has about $1.3 trillion in state and local debt, so it seems as though making sure government programs are fully costed isn't as much of a priority as they might make it out to be. I'm not arguing for a balanced budget, nor am I saying that making sure the legislation was costed appropriately isn't important. Just trying to point out the fact that excuses like there's no money or we'd have to raise taxes or cut this are always the excuses used to halt and destroy working class political concessions. In my own town (not California) we have property developers who have received multi-million dollar property tax rebates while the city poor-mouths that we don't have the funds to provide adequate housing for our homeless population. How many such deals have been struck between the California state government and property developers, or tech firms, etc. and how much of that money could have gone to providing working class people healthcare instead of another tax cut for the billionaire class?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 19:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
hell the lost tax revenue from prop 13 alone is probably a trillion or two
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 19:32
|
|