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I just get liquored up with Cass and shoot all the assholes. All of them.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:45
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I love that this game creates these types of discussions.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:52
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jfood posted:I just get liquored up with Cass and shoot all the assholes. I mean, Ulysses has a nice set of nuclear missiles to fire off if you wanna go down that road, sure. Or Father Elijah and his technolord poison gas plan. SolidSnakesBandana posted:I love that this game creates these types of discussions. Hey now, Fallout 4 offers challenging ideas too! Like... uh... your son growing up to be a shut-in out-of-touch goonlord rear end in a top hat? Kerning Chameleon fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 22:53
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Kerning Chameleon posted:New Vegas is a game about Imperialism: the reasons it happens, the forms it takes, and the effects it has. The Mojave Wasteland is a monetarily poor but resource-rich and strategically located Third-World Nation with its capital city ruled by an iron-fisted tin pot dictator. Said dictator is trying to maintain a delicate diplomatic balancing act between the two superpowers of the world vying for control over the nation: the capitalistic supposedly-liberty loving western superpower, and the eastern bloc of forcibly absorbed and reorganized nations under the illusion of an ideology headed by a dictatorial cult of personality. It's also heavily about luck. House gets crazy lucky multiple times; Benny coasts as far as he gets on dumb luck and knew what he was doing was a huge gamble with a potentially huge payout. It's kind of why he just gives up as easily as he does; he knows he's screwed so he'll take the opportunity to just walk away if he can. Of course the proper answer is to shoot him in the head with his own gun until he dies but still...if you give him the option to just cash out he takes it. New Vegas really shouldn't exist but, well...there it is!
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Jun 19, 2017 23:02
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I didn't read anything interesting about imperialism in the NV story. I'm not even sure if I'd grant that any of the involved parties qualify as empires, given that each are quite culturally homogeneous. The Legion is closer, depending on how you read the integration of the tribes.
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Jun 19, 2017 23:18
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Imperialism is as imperialism does
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Jun 20, 2017 02:14
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But what's even the point of talking about imperialism then? Forming any government becomes imperialism. Every human group starts off with less people and territory and grows to include more people and territory, and that's all interspersed with, and sometimes driven by, armed conflicts. This was even the case before the agricultural revolution.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:16
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NV features the two largest civilizations in existence (at least as far as we the audience are aware) fighting over an independent region whose inhabitants aren't really excited about being a part of either civilization. That's as imperialist as imperialism gets.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:45
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Leaving out the group that most exemplifies an empire. It's right in the name, The Kings. Also holy poo poo there is so much more to this game than I ever explored. I never realized how close I've stayed to the main quest line every playthrough. This is the first time I've even talked to Veronica or Arcade. I always just found Boone and never bothered with anyone else. funmanguy fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 03:54
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Gobblecoque posted:NV features the two largest civilizations in existence (at least as far as we the audience are aware) fighting over an independent region whose inhabitants aren't really excited about being a part of either civilization. That's as imperialist as imperialism gets. That's the story of most of human history, wherever you lived.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:57
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New Vegas is about symbols and how we use them to construct identity, both as individuals and as groups.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:58
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New Vegas is about how humans turn to an idealized past while trying to build towards an uncertain future.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:02
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New vegas is about bombs and stuff
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Jun 20, 2017 04:07
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Those are both good points. It's very interesting how the ruins of the old world are to some a proof of the progress of man and to others a proof of the devolution of man.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:08
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new vegas is
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Jun 20, 2017 04:10
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funmanguy posted:New vegas is about bombs and stuff It's why explosives is the best skill.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:27
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Seashell Salesman posted:That's the story of most of human history, wherever you lived. Yeah, I agree.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:36
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funmanguy posted:Leaving out the group that most exemplifies an empire. It's right in the name, The Kings. Emperors are very specifically not kings. The Romans had a cultural heritage of horrible kings before they went republican, and even in the imperial phase nobody wanted to be compared to a king.
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Jun 20, 2017 05:28
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ulmont posted:Emperors are very specifically not kings. The Romans had a cultural heritage of horrible kings before they went republican, and even in the imperial phase nobody wanted to be compared to a king. What is an emperor but a nutty, cuckoo, super-king?
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Jun 20, 2017 05:34
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popewiles posted:What is an emperor but a nutty, cuckoo, super-king? Very specifically not a king. It sounds insane to me too. https://books.google.com/books?id=ftcx-5j7rjwC&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Jun 20, 2017 06:10
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Lurdiak posted:They may be wrong-headed paranoid isolationists, but they ain't hurting nobody. If someone's first act upon meeting me is to try and strap a bomb to my neck, then he and all his rear end in a top hat friends get the plasma rifle to the face treatment. After that they very definitely ain't hurting nobody.
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Jun 20, 2017 06:50
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Wingnut Ninja posted:If someone's first act upon meeting me is to try and strap a bomb to my neck, then he and all his rear end in a top hat friends get the plasma rifle to the face treatment. After that they very definitely ain't hurting nobody. I mean, I can understand why people get upset at this, but I've always looked at it from the Brotherhood's point of view: They're hiding in a cramped bunker desperately trying to avoid being discovered by the NCR, and then some wastelander rando somehow manages to open the door just when there's an NCR ranger camping out nearby. And frankly, considering how so many factions (And Players!) want to outright kill them, their paranoia is a little justified.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:16
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I'm looking forward to interacting with the brotherhood beyond my bullets interacting with their faces. I have Veronica with me.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:05
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean, I can understand why people get upset at this, but I've always looked at it from the Brotherhood's point of view: They're hiding in a cramped bunker desperately trying to avoid being discovered by the NCR, and then some wastelander rando somehow manages to open the door just when there's an NCR ranger camping out nearby. And frankly, considering how so many factions (And Players!) want to outright kill them, their paranoia is a little justified. Thats what i really like about that first interaction with the Brotherhood, they're scared of you because you might be an NCR spy sent to kill them, and it's entirely possible that you are actually at that point playing as an NCR spy sent to kill them.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:26
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im not really sure how brotherhood of steel are harmless when their agenda is to confiscate any tech thats more advanced than a toaster. and they dont take no for an answer.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:28
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Iretep posted:im not really sure how brotherhood of steel are harmless when their agenda is to confiscate any tech thats more advanced than a toaster. and they dont take no for an answer. It's not that they're harmless, but they're also far from a monolithic block. The entire Brotherhood questline is about the chapter is split between reformers like Veronica and reactionaries like Hardin, and under McNamara they can be convinced to use their technology for good in the Mojave. They're far from flawless, but it's not like they're straight-up evil.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:52
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Iretep posted:im not really sure how brotherhood of steel are harmless when their agenda is to confiscate any tech thats more advanced than a toaster. and they dont take no for an answer. The brotherhood are the descendants of people who saw the terrible things people were doing with advanced technology even before the bombs dropped (and maintain historical records, not just legends, of it) and said "never again." You might disagree with them, but it's not hard to see why they believe what they do.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:02
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I realized in my latest play though that I've never actually recruited Pete to help with goodsprings. The only time I had enough explosives skill, I allied with the powder gangers and killed him. What does he give you?
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Jun 20, 2017 18:48
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When the gunfight starts, Sunny Smiles shows up with like 5-10 Dynamite and passes some off to you. I just started my latest playthrough with explosives and I was glad I didn't have to dip into my own stash.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:52
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Edit actually never mind
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 19:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:In terms of engaging with source material, would you argue that Kotor 2 or New Vegas are the stronger game? I just really want to talk about kotor 2 at the moment and obsidian game fans are probably most likely to have played it. There's even an argument to be had in both games about rejecting the mistakes of the past in order to move on. It's been a while since I've played KOTOR II, but I'd probably give the edge to New Vegas, if only because New Vegas had a strong central theme that connected deeply to factions, themes, events, and characters from past games.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:29
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All of that is absolutely true of Kotor 2 as well. Kotor 2 really suffers in the end game because of the time crunch it was under that left it unfinished. But that situation definitely taught Obsidian better time management, and makes New Vegas a much better realized game.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:37
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I find it interesting watching how Obsidian's design ethos builds upon what came before it. KOTOR 2 is a transplanting of the plotting from Black Isle's Planescape, while New Vegas adopts some of the approval systems from KOTOR 2, and Alpha Protocol refines the reactionary system of New Vegas and develops it to a much more focused degree.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:43
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Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:All of that is absolutely true of Kotor 2 as well. Kotor 2 really suffers in the end game because of the time crunch it was under that left it unfinished. But that situation definitely taught Obsidian better time management, and makes New Vegas a much better realized game. There wasn't a time crunch, half-way through schedule development Lucas Art told them wrap it so they could put something on the shelves for the Holiday season. Its no coincidence there is so much unfinished content in the game files that was never removed.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:49
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Kotor 2 is a loving chore to play in a way NV isn't because D&D isn't a good fit for Star Wars, doesn't adapt well to computer games, and isn't great to begin with
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Jun 20, 2017 19:53
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StashAugustine posted:Kotor 2 is a loving chore to play in a way NV isn't because D&D isn't a good fit for Star Wars, doesn't adapt well to computer games, and isn't great to begin with Thankfully the systems are so broken in the game that if you pick the right starting class (consular) and specialize in blasters, you can break the game difficulty by crafting yourself a pair of one hit kill pistols. So you can speed through the combat to get to the meat of the game's writing. I know that abusing broken game systems isn't a good solution to enjoying a game, but it's something. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 20:07
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Back Hack posted:There wasn't a time crunch, half-way through schedule development Lucas Art told them wrap it so they could put something on the shelves for the Holiday season. Its no coincidence there is so much unfinished content in the game files that was never removed. I fail to see how that isn't a time crunch. I just didn't want to throw blame any particular way. I've read conflicting reports, and even Obsidian have said they could've planned better. I did always feel an undercurrent of "we don't want to piss off LucasArts" when they said that though. Slowpoke Rodriguez fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 20:45
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LucasArts pushing the deadline up or not it did result in future obsidian games operating on a much more manageable time schedule. The experience probably taught them to play their cards smarter when negotiating how much development time they'd need for their games. New Vegas has a staggering amount of content in it with relatively little being cut plot wise and most of the cuts going to assets to cram the game onto console hardware. There is nowhere near as much cut content in Vegas as in Sith Lords.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:58
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While FNV might not be as cut as KOTOR2, it's still got a *ton* of cut content. Such as almost all of the Legion quests and areas- the east of the Colorado was originally going to be significantly larger. Part of it as well, I think, is that because it was budgeted out better, more of the cut content was actually removed from the FNV game files instead of just being left in because there was no time to remove it.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:10
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The big difference is that the stuff that was cut from F:NV you talk about, was stuff that was initially discussed but never got to the starting stages of implementation. KOTOR2 had a lot of stuff that was half-working and was cut mid-production due to time constraints.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:12
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