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AskYourself posted:I think the time has come to debate proper line ending etiquette... Carriage return is not enough, we need a line feed too right ? What?! NO. Then you're just adding n characters (and thus bytes) to your file that's useless to the modern machine, where n is LOC - 1!! That's why you should write code on a single line, WITH NO COMMENTS. 
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Jun 19, 2017 16:41
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Sage Grimm posted:What?! NO. Then you're just adding n characters (and thus bytes) to your file that's useless to the modern machine, where n is LOC - 1!! WHOA WHOA WHOA LOC-1 ? Are you some kind of barbarian? An empty line at the end of every file is just plain good manners.
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Jun 19, 2017 16:47
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One of the devs on my team was using \n\r last week
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Jun 19, 2017 17:58
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AskYourself posted:I think the time has come to debate proper line ending etiquette... Carriage return is not enough, we need a line feed too right ? Would you rather debate that the endianness of all computers should be network order?
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Jun 19, 2017 18:24
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Polio Vax Scene posted:One of the devs on my team was using \n\r last week hisssss
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Jun 19, 2017 18:25
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Polio Vax Scene posted:One of the devs on my team was using \n\r last week ChickenWing posted:hisssss https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS
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Jun 19, 2017 18:26
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Programmers will have this whitespace argument endlessly; the solution business will find won't be to fix the whitespace, it'll be to fix the programmers. We'll all be replaced with AI that has no need or care for whitespace, which you must realise will lead to a war over something far more fundamental, a war to end all wars - the Endian War. We must end this argument before it's too late - we must choose spaces. TheBlackVegetable fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 21:26
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TheBlackVegetable posted:Programmers will have this whitespace argument endlessly; the solution business will find won't be to fix the whitespace, it'll be to fix the programmers. I take solace in the fact that we will be the last thing to be replaced by AI.
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Jun 19, 2017 21:27
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What if companies interviewed translators the way they interview coders?
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Jun 20, 2017 00:47
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On line endings: We use an application that needs it's line endings to be LF, else some stuff doesn't work. However, Git on Windows does LFCR. It was solved using .gitattributes but you made me think of this stupid thing again, where different line endings can have different results. It did teach me that IntelliJ happily changes between the three in the editor. Talking about that: IntelliJ, Eclipse or Netbeans? And to those suggesting VIM: how is life in the retirement home?
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Jun 20, 2017 11:10
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Keetron posted:On line endings: Vim is great. I recently switched to neovim on my personal machine and now get to use truecolor in the terminal. I visualize white space with my configuration, have completion for all languages I've used regularly (C++, C#, erlang, python, [java at work]). I typically use native line endings. There's probably a setting to set preferred endings, which would be configurable on a per filetype basis. Retirement probably won't hit for ~40 years, but my retired friends say it's cool. I'm looking forward to it.
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Jun 20, 2017 11:21
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There's a bunch of folks here that use plain text editors line VIM, Emacs, Sublime, etc in lieu of an IDE. I have no idea how they work so well with it, but they do. IntelliJ for me, all the way.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:46
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I use Vi. But that means I also use the command line extensively, including grep, find, awk, dozens of custom aliases and functions. And if those can't do what I want I can build perl one-liners fast. That's what programming in Vi actually means. You're not actually in Vi the whole time, you're using your entire unix environment.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:01
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Volmarias posted:There's a bunch of folks here that use plain text editors line VIM, Emacs, Sublime, etc in lieu of an IDE. I have no idea how they work so well with it, but they do. For some is what they're used to. For others, is just showing off.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:01
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Vim and emacs are genuinely powerful, from what I've used of them, but they've also got a hell of a difficulty curve. IDEs are easier to use, but restrictive, and they expect you to work on a set of rails. Text editors like Sublime and Atom are a nice medium between the two. Think of them like character classes in an RPG or a multiplayer shooter and that analogy makes a bit more sense.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:20
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Ah, I always play a fighter so that makes sense.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:30
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Pollyanna posted:Vim and emacs are genuinely powerful, from what I've used of them, but they've also got a hell of a difficulty curve. IDEs are easier to use, but restrictive, and they expect you to work on a set of rails. Text editors like Sublime and Atom are a nice medium between the two. What would the support classes be in this analogy?
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Jun 20, 2017 15:33
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How much you need advanced IDE features depends a lot on the nuances of your language and the standard tooling, also. Like, I've never written Python or Ruby or Golang in Vim and felt like I was missing some key feature that I needed to make me productive, but I'd never think of writing large amounts of Java or JavaScript or C++ using vim. I tend to switch off depending on what I'm working on and how deep I'm getting in the code. (Even in a language that's a bad fit for my Vim workflow, I usually won't fire up an IDE to make a two-line code change.) I guess I'm a shapeshifter, like a werebear or something?
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Jun 20, 2017 16:05
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Werebear is the new rockstar.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:07
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taqueso posted:Werebear is the new rockstar.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:09
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HardDiskD posted:What would the support classes be in this analogy? I have no idea, I didn't think it through that far. Changing the topic - my poor coworker is having a really tough time on this project. We're doing front-end development for our company's website and web apps, and for a variety of reasons (terrible project lead, godawful project management and planning, design is off in a totally different part of the country and are fickle and uncommunicative, shitloads of layoffs and people quitting), it's been a real shitshow. My coworker has been at the company for almost 20 years, and this is the project that's gotten her to look elsewhere for work.  She says she's never felt worse about what she does, and I feel the same way. She absolutely hates the tech we work with and front-end has left a bad taste in her mouth, and she say she doesn't want to do it again. It doesn't help that our project lead constantly blows us off and refuses to help us do things, even though that's what we were promised at the beginning and is his goddamn role - she and I theorize that it's because we're women, since he's the only dude on the team. They put us on week-long on-call shifts and now our planned vacations are all hosed up, and at least one person in the organization has been unable to deal with a family emergency as a result. The office is hemorrhaging engineers and they can't hire anybody because of their bad reputation. I'm this close to just turning in my badge and laptop and quitting outright without securing a job first, but that's a super risky thing to do.I myself am swearing off front-end work as a focus from now on. Maybe it's unfair, but it's what feels right for me. It's not the road I want to go down, and it will honestly be the best thing for me. I'm just so pissed off at the whole thing. I hate the entire organization and what it's become, and the disappointment is palpable. What a fuckup.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:11
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Pollyanna posted:Vim and emacs are genuinely powerful, from what I've used of them, but they've also got a hell of a difficulty curve. IDEs are easier to use, but restrictive, and they expect you to work on a set of rails. Text editors like Sublime and Atom are a nice medium between the two. Our whole shop is either sublime or vim (and one weirdo who uses emacs). People trade vimrc lines and give occasional usage tech-talks. I personally wouldn't survive without ctrl-p. I never have to remember where anything is.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:28
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Let me introduce you to Visual Studio Code my man
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Jun 20, 2017 16:41
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Pollyanna posted:It doesn't help that our project lead constantly blows us off and refuses to help us do things, even though that's what we were promised at the beginning and is his goddamn role - she and I theorize that it's because we're women, since he's the only dude on the team. I bet I already know the answer, but do you have any skip-level meetings with this guy's supervisor, where you can bring up issues like this? If not (ha), you could request/demand one, since you don't care about your long-term prospects at the company anyway.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:45
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CPColin posted:I bet I already know the answer, but do you have any skip-level meetings with this guy's supervisor, where you can bring up issues like this? If not (ha), you could request/demand one, since you don't care about your long-term prospects at the company anyway. I say "direct supervisors" and stuff like that, but the organization got so shaken up a couple months ago or so that I don't think we have assigned managers or anything like that anymore. There's one guy that's "in charge" of our organization and everything else is check-ins and PIPs farmed out to in-company former project and employee managers that otherwise don't interact with us and have no say with our own organization. You do know the answer: the answer is nobody knows what the gently caress is happening anymore. I need a vacation.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:50
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Vulture Culture posted:How much you need advanced IDE features depends a lot on the nuances of your language and the standard tooling, also. Like, I've never written Python or Ruby or Golang in Vim and felt like I was missing some key feature that I needed to make me productive, but I'd never think of writing large amounts of Java or JavaScript or C++ using vim. Yeah, this exactly. I've written Java in a text editor and it's loving stupid. It's a huge pain to do anything unless you've got an editor that communicates with the compiler, and all of the symbolic debuggers are beautiful and excellent. I use Eclipse, but that's just because it was the IDE at my first company and I don't write Java enough to try learning a new system. I tried using Atom to write JavaScript and it's cool to have your editor in the same language that you're writing but I hate how my text editor and chat program are each an entire sandboxed web browser that eats all the system memory and randomly makes the CPU work really hard. I mostly use Emacs. It's a comfortable text editor, it's got tons of plugins to handle all the languages I work with (stuff like pep8 checking Python on the fly) and it's easy to customize. There is a ton of functionality that I don't use, but any time I do the same editor task 4 times in a day I spend a little time trying to automate it. One modification was teaching Emacs to give me a different template based on the file path. So if I create "lib/protocols/foo.ex" then it should start me with "defprotocol Protocols.Foo..." but if I create "lib/bar/foo.ex" then I'd get "defmodule Bar.Foo..." I also like ediff and have been doing nearly all of my git-work inside magit. One of these days I'll get Emacs set up as my mail program and be a true weirdo.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:03
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To Pollyanna : It should be fairly easy to game the system if no one is in charge. At this point you would probably be better to check-off mentally, try to detach your emotional-self from the work you are doing. Working hard would probably get you no positive net gain so instead you need to appear to be working hard. For example you could spend an hour chatting with a co-worker about the weather but make sure you have a clip-board thing with graphs on a few sheet of paper and a pen and appear to take note and do stuff, the bosses will notice this more than actual work being done... And get a new job ASAP. As far as coding goes : Visual Studio and Notepad++ for me. No idea how I would debug cloud-based distributed system without a proper IDE.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:09
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Just hook up vim or whatever to eclipse and keep the editor your used to
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Jun 20, 2017 17:16
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AskYourself posted:To Pollyanna : It should be fairly easy to game the system if no one is in charge. At this point you would probably be better to check-off mentally, try to detach your emotional-self from the work you are doing. Working hard would probably get you no positive net gain so instead you need to appear to be working hard. For example you could spend an hour chatting with a co-worker about the weather but make sure you have a clip-board thing with graphs on a few sheet of paper and a pen and appear to take note and do stuff, the bosses will notice this more than actual work being done... And get a new job ASAP. Yep, I'm at the "look busy but stop caring" stage, WFH and all. I'm still doing work though, cause I still have accountability and responsibilities. They're just gonna...take a little longer. Apologies if I keep bringing up a dead horse - no need to respond to me on the  topic.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:31
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I do C# and F# development, and F# was getting me to branch out from Visual Studio and into Visual Studio Code which is pretty nice. But then I went to a Haskell talk where the guy speaking was using emacs and was really fast at navigating the code from the keyboard, so now I have spacemacs setup and I'm getting really used to some of the moving around shortcut keys, and welp guess I'm stuck on the weirdo editor now.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:33
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I want to like emacs more but the chord system really cramps up my hands.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:37
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Pollyanna posted:I want to like emacs more but the chord system really cramps up my hands. Remap caps-lock to be another control key.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:59
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Or buy a Kinesis Advantage.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:41
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Vulture Culture posted:How much you need advanced IDE features depends a lot on the nuances of your language and the standard tooling, also. Like, I've never written Python or Ruby or Golang in Vim and felt like I was missing some key feature that I needed to make me productive, but I'd never think of writing large amounts of Java or JavaScript or C++ using vim. I tend to switch off depending on what I'm working on and how deep I'm getting in the code. (Even in a language that's a bad fit for my Vim workflow, I usually won't fire up an IDE to make a two-line code change.) This is a good point. The Java language, and its best practices, seems to be designed with an IDE in mind. To the point where I tried looking at an enterprise Java project in Vi and my laptop projectile vomited all over me.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:04
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Pollyanna posted:I myself am swearing off front-end work as a focus from now on. Maybe it's unfair, but it's what feels right for me. It's not the road I want to go down, and it will honestly be the best thing for me. It's not so much that it's 'unfair' to front end development if you swear it off, it doesn't care about you, and will continue to happily reinvent the wheel 50 more times without you. It is however potentially unfair to yourself, in that you are projecting your (justified) hatred for your current organization onto something that doesn't deserve it, and thus creating an error in your perceptions. Sure, take a break if you need to, but keep it straight in your head what is really bothering you.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:31
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Doc Hawkins posted:Or buy a Kinesis Advantage. I worked with a guy who used one and he was awesome and intimidating to work near. I don't think I write enough continuous code to need a good keyboard, but maybe I'm making a mistake. I usually write about a screen-full of text and then think about it/debug it.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:02
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The keyboard is not the bottleneck for programming productivity, but if it's your job to use an X, you should have a very ergonomic X.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:05
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Yay keyboard talk! DAS KEYBOARD ULTIMATE with cherry brown.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:13
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Doc Hawkins posted:Or buy a Kinesis Advantage. Seconding this, it's the best hardware purchase I probably ever made.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:44
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My company's roadmap team basically punted on voting for what we would be doing in Q4 of this year and basically told us that they want all of it and we can explore creating a fresh Version 2 of our application since constant feedback from clients can be interpreted as, "our user experience sucks complete rear end." This would be an awesome thing for us because we can get rid of all of this legacy garbage that's been a bane for most of us to work with. I hope this happens so I can say goodbye to Struts and AngularJS. (Angular itself isn't the problem, but more of the way it was implemented is a war crime - the devs that implemented it left just as the conversion to angular was done then from their new jobs said, "sorry, realized we did angular wrong. don't be mad kthxbye"). I've wanted this day to happen for years because the first version of our site was cobbled together so quickly before we even knew what our company was from the ashes of another company so there are libraries in use that haven't been updated since 2005 and nobody in the company knows why.
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