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Kay Kessler posted:Uranium only reached that high a number because it was free. When Nintendo released a Pokemon game for free, it got 500 million downloads in two months. They made a lovely clicker-style skinner box game about magikarps and it has somewhere in the ballpark of 10 million downloads. It was released less than a month ago.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:07
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Rather than LP even one video game, I'm off doing smart things in the Four Job Fiesta.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:34
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KataraniSword posted:They made a lovely clicker-style skinner box game about magikarps and it has somewhere in the ballpark of 10 million downloads. It was released less than a month ago. Don't you say a goddamn thing against Magikarp. fffffuckerrrrrr
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Jun 20, 2017 04:36
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KataraniSword posted:They made a lovely clicker-style skinner box game about magikarps and it has somewhere in the ballpark of 10 million downloads. It was released less than a month ago. actually, it's an incredibly good clicker-style skinner box game about magikarps
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Jun 20, 2017 07:20
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I'm gonna split things down the middle and say that I have no idea what a "skinner box game" is, so I have no opinion of it.
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Jun 20, 2017 07:33
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get that OUT of my face posted:I'm gonna split things down the middle and say that I have no idea what a "skinner box game" is, so I have no opinion of it. Simple but unreliable reward loops built to encourage compulsive behavior. Common term when talking about mobile gacha games.
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Jun 20, 2017 07:35
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chiasaur11 posted:Simple but unreliable reward loops built to encourage compulsive behavior.
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Jun 20, 2017 07:38
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Rather than LP even one video game, I'm off doing smart things in the Four Job Fiesta. I'm not sure what you're doing in this screenshot but I'm sure it involves shattering FFV's difficulty curve in some way, so I approve!
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Jun 20, 2017 07:48
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get that OUT of my face posted:So it's like gambling with no money involved? Sounds lame.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:12
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StrixNebulosa posted:I'm not sure what you're doing in this screenshot but I'm sure it involves shattering FFV's difficulty curve in some way, so I approve! Running Omniscient out of MP in a very time extensive strategy so as to prevent Resets, which, well, resets the fight back to the beginning. Not even remotely necessary with a White Mage (Berserk+Blink does the job infinitely better in this case!) but it's sure something all the same.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:27
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Dragonatrix posted:Running Omniscient out of MP in a very time extensive strategy so as to prevent Resets, which, well, resets the fight back to the beginning. I love it. 
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Jun 20, 2017 08:53
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get that OUT of my face posted:So it's like gambling with no money involved? Sounds lame. most video games have some kind of skinner box involved. like leveling up in an rpg.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:59
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get that OUT of my face posted:So it's like gambling with no money involved? Sounds lame. To expand on the previous post, while most games incorporate a certain amount of the "Skinner Box" feedback loop, many mobile games and MMOs have drat near weaponized it, convincing players to grind for hours for nothing more than seeing some digital pretend numbers go up. This Extra Credits video goes into detail about it, and is well worth a watch.
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Jun 20, 2017 09:33
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Dragonatrix posted:Running Omniscient out of MP in a very time extensive strategy so as to prevent Resets, which, well, resets the fight back to the beginning. There's also the concern of keeping him from casting Flare when he finally dies, no? Been forever since I've played FF5.
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Jun 20, 2017 10:01
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EclecticTastes posted:To expand on the previous post, while most games incorporate a certain amount of the "Skinner Box" feedback loop, many mobile games and MMOs have drat near weaponized it, convincing players to grind for hours for nothing more than seeing some digital pretend numbers go up. This Extra Credits video goes into detail about it, and is well worth a watch. this is a good loving post because I loving learned something in like 10 mins
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Jun 20, 2017 11:17
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get that OUT of my face posted:I'm gonna split things down the middle and say that I have no idea what a "skinner box game" is, so I have no opinion of it. Literally all games are Skinner Box games (because they ALL use reinforcement to keep you playing), but people like to use the term for clicker style or gambling style games despite the fact that Skinner Boxes aren't used for random ratio research all that often. Edit: its because of that South Park episode, isn't it? Edit2: EclecticTastes posted:To expand on the previous post, while most games incorporate a certain amount of the "Skinner Box" feedback loop, many mobile games and MMOs have drat near weaponized it, convincing players to grind for hours for nothing more than seeing some digital pretend numbers go up. This Extra Credits video goes into detail about it, and is well worth a watch. Just watched this. There's a few things wrong. -Skinner didn't discover that organisms learn through their environment or that consequences influence learning. Thorndike did. -Skinner doesn't use the term 'volition' the way a layperson would. For example, he wouldn't use the term to describe a choice being made of one's own will because he didn't believe free will existed. -Skinner talked a lot about gambling from a theoretical standpoint but didn't really research it. Modern behavioral research shows that the intermittent payoffs are only a small contribution to addictive play and other reinforcers (primarily negative reinforcement) contribute far more. (This is my dissertation topic.) -They fundamentally misunderstand the concept of reinforcement. They think reinforcement is strictly a concrete, tangible, artificial thing like points. Its not. Literally all the things that they list at the end (e.g., mastery, novelty, etc.) are parts of reinforcement and operant conditioning, too. When you master a skill in a game, you master it because you got reinforcement for improving (e.g., beating tougher enemies, etc.). It involves an operant conditioning process called shaping. When you encounter novel stimuli, they can be reinforcers because they are novel. When you access a new area or plot point in a game, that's a reinforcer. All games use it. A game without reinforcement would be a game that people don't consider fun. The question isn't whether the game uses it or not, but whether its use of reinforcement is subtle or obvious. That's all. Sorry for the derail. I'll stop now. Dienes fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 14:49
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Rather than LP even one video game, I'm off doing smart things in the Four Job Fiesta. Ah, PP stalling with Blissey in the Battle Tower.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:59
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Dienes posted:Literally all games are Skinner Box games (because they ALL use reinforcement to keep you playing), but people like to use the term for clicker style or gambling style games despite the fact that Skinner Boxes aren't used for random ratio research all that often. Psychology in video games is cool and good and how you can turn a simple Match 3 game into the foundation of a multimedia empire complete with merch and a game show.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:55
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Extra Credit grossly misunderstands things tangentially related to video games, what else is new
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Jun 20, 2017 18:02
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Dienes posted:Literally all games are Skinner Box games (because they ALL use reinforcement to keep you playing), but people like to use the term for clicker style or gambling style games despite the fact that Skinner Boxes aren't used for random ratio research all that often. I'd love to hear more about this. Have you considered making a thread? If not, do you have some articles or videos you could link?
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Jun 20, 2017 18:04
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Dienes posted:Literally all games are Skinner Box games (because they ALL use reinforcement to keep you playing), but people like to use the term for clicker style or gambling style games despite the fact that Skinner Boxes aren't used for random ratio research all that often.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:05
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Endorph posted:extra credits is really bad
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Jun 20, 2017 19:40
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PMush Perfect posted:I'm genuinely curious about your feelings on this. We usually seem to agree, but I'm a big big fan of Extra Credits, and usually take any excuse I can get to link to Extra History. I've seen two videos by Extra Credits. One was him taking six minutes to say "Destiny is milquetoast enough that it's mildly appealing to a broad audience". The other was six minutes of him ostensibly talking about how to balance games, but actually just revealing that he has zero understanding of competitive anything. Also the voice modulation is annoying.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:46
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inthesto posted:I've seen two videos by Extra Credits. One was him taking six minutes to say "Destiny is milquetoast enough that it's mildly appealing to a broad audience". The other was six minutes of him ostensibly talking about how to balance games, but actually just revealing that he has zero understanding of competitive anything. Extra Credits is basically a man with a little knowledge and a love for the sound of his own cartoon voice.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:00
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Extra Credits is basically a man with a little knowledge and a love for the sound of his own cartoon voice. I think the other guy with the longer hair and gotee is the main writer on EC now
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Jun 20, 2017 21:22
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these are the only truly good Extra Credits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5q5TbFnvkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv1nUmED4As
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Jun 20, 2017 21:25
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I don't watch EC as much as I used to, admittedly, but Extra History is really good, and I hope they keep doing that, if nothing else.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:26
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If you want some actual in-depth analysis of games, both Talking Simulator and hbomberguy's channel are really good sources.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:28
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inthesto posted:I've seen two videos by Extra Credits. One was him taking six minutes to say "Destiny is milquetoast enough that it's mildly appealing to a broad audience". The other was six minutes of him ostensibly talking about how to balance games, but actually just revealing that he has zero understanding of competitive anything. And the reason behind the modulation is dumb. It's because the first one he did was for a class project and it had to be under a certain time, which he was just over. So he sped up his voice to fit it into the time and he's done that ever since.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:32
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His notes on things specific to the game industry are pretty awful as well, lots of talk on "that's just how things are  " and no real information on what other options could be available and why the current methods of team management are really bad. Watch the video on bugs being in launch games and see how much of it is saying "we just can't do anything" when it's clear there's some distinct management issues going on that should be addressed, such as reliance on pushing teams from project to project ASAP when they may need to address issues with their work interacting with the rest of the project's parts
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Jun 21, 2017 00:42
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Dienes posted:Literally all games are Skinner Box games (because they ALL use reinforcement to keep you playing), but people like to use the term for clicker style or gambling style games despite the fact that Skinner Boxes aren't used for random ratio research all that often. this is also a really good loving post and I have learned stuff. Best of luck in your Dissertation!
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Jun 21, 2017 05:36
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PMush Perfect posted:I'm genuinely curious about your feelings on this. We usually seem to agree, but I'm a big big fan of Extra Credits, and usually take any excuse I can get to link to Extra History. and the voice sucks. edit: and he has a really surface level knowledge of games. i get that a guy can't play everything especially when you have to play certain things for your job but there's so many times he cites things as industry-wide problems with no solutions when I can name seventeen things with clever solutions to the problem. Endorph fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 06:16
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There's an old episode of Extra Credits where they're talking about first person shooters where they bring up a game made by some Islamic terrorist organization about exterminating Jews, and they say "Ahah! This is the same as Call of Duty because there you shoot terrorists." Beyond the general low-quality and arrogance other people have mentioned that specifically is what made me stop watching it. To actually get back on topic to the LP though, how much more of Uranium is there? The story is poorly paced so it's hard to tell - it seems like we should have hit some kind of climax defeating the main villain of the story here, but there's been so little build up of the characters involved and the outcome of that fight seemed so purposeless. Using Sun/Moon as a comparison the villain role there was introduced earlier with a connection to the main cast so by the time there's a confrontation it feels more significant, and the outcome there has well-defined consequences both from a character perspective and from a larger story/world perspective. It's almost a shame if there's not much left of Uranium because OFS has been doing such a good job with this LP I don't want it to stop, even though more of Uranium would mean, well, more of Uranium. It's been really interesting to read other people's thoughts about the ideas Uranium's trying and Pokemon fangames in general, so I hope it has more up its sleeves to try even if it executes it poorly.
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Jun 24, 2017 22:02
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There's just the victory road equivalent and elite four, then whatever post game stuff exists, which I'm not sure how much there is exactly
OneDeadman fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 22:22
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OneDeadman posted:There's just the victory road equivalent and elite four, then whatever post game stuff exists, which I'm not sure how much there is exactly Oh boy! Berries! 
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Jun 24, 2017 22:28
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CatsPajamas posted:It's almost a shame if there's not much left of Uranium because OFS has been doing such a good job with this LP I don't want it to stop, even though more of Uranium would mean, well, more of Uranium. It's been really interesting to read other people's thoughts about the ideas Uranium's trying and Pokemon fangames in general, so I hope it has more up its sleeves to try even if it executes it poorly. This, although it makes me want to roll up my sleeves and do it better despite being a garbage spriter.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:57
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Ace of Aces posted:This, although it makes me want to roll up my sleeves and do it better despite being a garbage spriter. Honestly, if the sprites are consistently terrible it becomes at least moderately charming. Besides, decent gameplay/writing choices would definitely go a long way to make bad sprites forgivable. I'd much rather play a well written, properly designed game with sprites done by a twelve year old with MS Paint than the most beautiful game with the plot of Uranium.
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Jun 27, 2017 13:20
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Maybe I'm thinking wrong, but Uranium's designs don't really communicate the high base stats very well. Blissey, Chansey, and Guzzlord are the top three of official Pokemon for HP, and they all have shapes that sort of imply that. Wailord, Snorlax, Hariyama Wigglytuff, the only word I have for it is wide. The only things that don't are Alomomola and legendaries, but maybe Alomomola is wide on a different axis and it's throwing me off. In Uranium? The top three is Seikamater, Dunseraph, and Dramsama.  I may be reading too much into it, since Dramsama is at 125 base HP, tied with Lanturn, but Pokemon that would look like buckets, like Fafninter and Luchabra, are behind this wispy thing. Tubareel is tied with Gararewl for third-highest defense behind Gargryph, who is solid rock, and Mega Metalynx, who is a cyborg. Alpico is the second-fastest non-mega, non-legendary Pokemon behind Inflagetah. Haagross is somehow 4th in non-mega special defense behind Brainoar and eeveelutions. I think I only have a point on Dramsama though.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:29
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Maybe I'm thinking wrong, but Uranium's designs don't really communicate the high base stats very well. Blissey, Chansey, and Guzzlord are the top three of official Pokemon for HP, and they all have shapes that sort of imply that. Wailord, Snorlax, Hariyama Wigglytuff, the only word I have for it is wide. The only things that don't are Alomomola and legendaries, but maybe Alomomola is wide on a different axis and it's throwing me off. Alomomola is an ocean sunfish, the heaviest species of bony fish. They're also very... wide? Tall? Very large in one dimension.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:43
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Silver Falcon posted:Alomomola is an ocean sunfish, the heaviest species of bony fish. They're also very... wide? Tall? Very large in one dimension. They're also literally not all that bright and have no defenses other than being very large. They only reason they survive as a species is because they generate immensely large numbers of offspring to offset their mortality rate.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:00
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